Polling Question Contribution Thread

Author: PressF4Respect
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#1
PressF4Respect
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Hey DART!

I'm planning to make an un-official MEEP/opinion poll to gather the community's stance on various questions that I have thought of and/or seen floating around in the forums. I am hoping that it will be posted sometime next week.

Even though this is a non-binding un-official MEEP, it is sanctioned by the mods and the results could influence moderation policies and the implementation of future site features.

In this thread, I will be previewing some of the questions to be voted on and discussed, as well as inviting all of you to suggest additional questions and refinements. Please note that there is no guarantee of any of the community-raised questions making it in.

Below are questions s I already intend to include:
1. Do you agree or disagree with the following clause in the new COC:
Removal of the harassing the moderators is ok rule (don’t worry, we’ll still have thick skin).
2. Are you for or against mods being allowed to vote in future MEEPs? Note that there are multiple options for this question:
  • "Yes1" indicates a preference for banning all moderators from voting on referendums.
  • "Yes2" indicates a preference for banning the chief and deputy moderators from voting on referendums.
  • "Yes3" indicates a preference for limiting the chief and deputy from voting, save for breaking stalemates.
  • "No" indicates opposition to this refinement.
3. Are you for or against votes being reported on (and possibly removed) after the voting period is finished?
4. Are you for or against the implementation of a DDO-esque polling section in DART?

Again, feel free to make any suggestions!
#2
Discipulus_Didicit
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plz tag me when this poll goes up.

Maybe include a question about ads. The owner seems to be against it because he thinks it would ruin the user experience. Good for him for putting the users first, that is what he should do, but I don't think my personal experience would be ruined and am curious how many others feel the same way.

Also please change 4 to the following:

Are you for or against the implementation of a polling section in DART?

There is an incredibly unfair stigma against the idea of having a polling section in general because of the fact that the DDO polling section got a bad rep from being the first to fall to spam bots before the forum section did. I believe my proposed wording change would have a slight effect (a very small effect I admit but hopefully a non-zero amount) in mitigating the effects of that unfair stigma compared to your proposed wording.
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#3
PressF4Respect
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@Discipulus_Didicit
plz tag me when this poll goes up.
I contacted the mods, and they said there will be a site-wide announcement made when the poll goes up. No need to worry about missing it ;)

Maybe include a question about ads. The owner seems to be against it because he thinks it would ruin the user experience. Good for him for putting the users first, that is what he should do, but I don't think my personal experience would be ruined and am curious how many others feel the same way.

Also please change 4 to the following:

Are you for or against the implementation of a polling section in DART?

There is an incredibly unfair stigma against the idea of having a polling section in general because of the fact that the DDO polling section got a bad rep from being the first to fall to spam bots before the forum section did. I believe my proposed wording change would have a slight effect (a very small effect I admit but hopefully a non-zero amount) in mitigating the effects of that unfair stigma compared to your proposed wording.
Fair enough. I will implement those changes.
#4
Imabench
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Is there a time and a place for when members of DDO can pitch policy ideas for these MEEPS or is that basically something members can do at any time as long as they contact an admin/mod in a PM?
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#5
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Addendum 1:
Changed #4 to the following:
Are you for or against the implementation of a polling section in DART?
And added the following question:
Are you for or against the implementation of some non-intrusive advertisements on DART?

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#6
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@Imabench
Is there a time and a place for when members of DDO can pitch policy ideas for these MEEPS or is that basically something members can do at any time as long as they contact an admin/mod in a PM?
I know that there are specific threads that the mods will make before a MEEP (such as this one). I'm also pretty sure that you can contact the mods for MEEP policy ideas via PMs at any time, but as I am not a mod, I cannot say for certain. 
#7
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@PressF4Respect
1. Yes, Black lives matter, All lives matter, Moderators lives also matter. If harassing anybody deserves punishment, then harassing a moderator also deserves punishment. It is up to the moderators if they are really harmful, but if it really is, then it deserves punishment. 

2. No, Moderator lives also matter. They aren't robots nor computer systems. They are people with opinions. 

3. No, It is going to be extremely glitchy consider if a vote is removed after the voting period ends, then the moderators will work overnight correcting who won the debate, the ELO, and who lost. Unless an automatic system is perfectly implemented, I will state no.

4. No. Forums suffice. All the MEEPs are hosted on forums instead of polls, and that would mean it should stay. It is not an if-ought fallacy because people are still okay with it. If polls are made to be its own thing, then trolls will spam questions like "should babies have sex" or "should Obama be decapitated"(Like I am not kidding, I have genuinely seen things like these in DDO because of all the trolls) that hides the actual, good, and useful polls well below the screen. Then we will have at least one additional moderator doing its thing when forums can already free him from complete anarchy. 
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#8
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@User_2006
This isn't the voting thread. That will come sometime next week ;)
#9
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@PressF4Respect
Oh ok, I will just copy paste what I have just typed. 
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#10
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Revised Question Poll (as of 06/04/2020, 12:52 PM PT):
1. Do you agree or disagree with the following clause in the new COC:
Removal of the harassing the moderators is ok rule (don’t worry, we’ll still have thick skin).
2. Are you for or against mods being allowed to vote in future MEEPs? Note that there are multiple options for this question:
  • "Yes1" indicates a preference for banning all moderators from voting on referendums.
  • "Yes2" indicates a preference for banning the chief and deputy moderators from voting on referendums.
  • "Yes3" indicates a preference for limiting the chief and deputy from voting, save for breaking stalemates.
  • "No" indicates opposition to this refinement.
3. Are you for or against votes being reported on (and possibly removed) after the voting period is finished?
4. Are you for or against the implementation of a polling section in DART?
5. Are you for or against the implementation of some non-intrusive advertisements on DART?

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#11
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@User_2006
Also please note that the poll that will be voted on next week may look very different from the one you just responded to (added questions, removed questions, wording change, etc.).
#12
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@PressF4Respect
hell yeah i'd love for polling too be added
#13
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@PressF4Respect
1. Disagree. Users should be able to criticize mods however they wish to, just like we are with the federal government in the US

2. No, everyone should be allowed to vote. Period.

3. Abstain

4. For, good place for opinions and stuff

5. Need more information. What type of ads? How many specifically? Where and when will they pop up? 



#14
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@PressF4Respect
1. Do you agree or disagree with the following clause in the new COC:
Removal of the harassing the moderators is ok rule (don’t worry, we’ll still have thick skin).
How thick? Just saying, it's a bit vague. I agree with it though and I think Bsh1 almost masochistic in how willing he was to be insulted and thought ill of, whose career ended here due to that very trait.

2. Are you for or against mods being allowed to vote in future MEEPs? Note that there are multiple options for this question:
  • "No" indicates opposition to this refinement.
This website has basically got only around 15 active members, 3 of them are moderators with the fourth moderator (Christopher_Best) being inactive but semi-silently moderating votes. Their proportion of importance to the community is severe, you can't just remove them from a vote, especially when we have REF, Thett3 and TheHammer always voting together in each of these things now.

3. Are you for or against votes being reported on (and possibly removed) after the voting period is finished?
I assume that you mean debates here, which is a case of everyone agreeing that this should be done but the website's coding of Rating, not allowing this to happen without corrupting that part of the coding.

4. Are you for or against the implementation of a DDO-esque polling section in DART?
Against, out of practical purposes. The admin has enough on his plate both with time, effort and resources. This will only result in more bugs and load on the server.

5. Are you for or against the implementation of some non-intrusive advertisements on DART?
For, but I'm not stupid and know that this will barely get any cash. People use adblockers and don't really click on ads anymore.


#15
Discipulus_Didicit
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@User_2006
 If polls are made to be its own thing, then trolls will spam questions like "should babies have sex" or "should Obama be decapitated"(Like I am not kidding, I have genuinely seen things like these in DDO because of all the trolls) 
Please reconsider this vote. Things like this were possible on DDO only due to uncaring ownership and intense spambot infestation.

Look at DDO forums. They are complete garage. Look at DART forums. Not complete garbage. Same would be the case for a polls section.
#16
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Still no. I mean, we don't need one or two moderators to moderate somethings that we can already discuss on the forums.  
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#17
PressF4Respect
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@ILikePie5
@Discipulus_Didicit
@User_2006
To re-emphasize, this isn't the official voting thread. That will come sometime next week. Please save your votes for then, as the current poll may be significantly different from the one that is voted on in the official thread. Votes here won't count towards the final tally.
#18
Discipulus_Didicit
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@PressF4Respect
To re-emphasize, this isn't the official voting thread.
I know that lol, that is why I have not made any votes.
#19
ILikePie5
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@PressF4Respect
To re-emphasize, this isn't the official voting thread. That will come sometime next week. Please save your votes for then, as the current poll may be significantly different from the one that is voted on in the official thread. Votes here won't count towards the final tally.
I know, just makes my life easier. I can just copy paste from here
#20
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how do i delete posts
#21
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@PressF4Respect
You asked us to state our thoughts, you then complained that we did.
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#22
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how do i delete posts
No need to. Don't worry about the posts you make here, you can just paste it onto the official thread (given that the question poll doesn't change too much from what it currently is)
#23
Discipulus_Didicit
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@User_2006
You can only delete posts that were made less than 30 mins ago (or 20 or something like that), after that you need to ask a mod to delete it for you.
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#24
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You asked us to state our thoughts, you then complained that we did.
I'm wasn't complaining. I was just saying that this isn't the official voting thread, that the votes here won't count, and that the votes should be saved for then (in case new questions are added, or the current questions are modified). There isn't anything wrong with posting votes here, they just won't count.

The main purpose of this thread is to suggest changes to the questions themselves. That is what I meant by "stating your thoughts" if you are confused by that part.
#25
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@PressF4Respect
People are going to pre-vote so to speak. It's a fast way for them to express their support or dissent. Enjoy it for the early feedback it represents.


1. Do you agree or disagree with the following clause in the new COC:
I'm fine with a vote on this. However, I will say the old rule was too open ended. We could take no action against a user for claiming we were a racist gay pedophile rape cult (yes, this actually happened!).


2. Are you for or against mods being allowed to vote in future MEEPs? Note that there are multiple options for this question:
I'm fine with a vote on this. I'll probably withhold my own vote, to see where it naturally goes.


3. Are you for or against votes being reported on (and possibly removed) after the voting period is finished?
This one could do with sub-options. To my knowledge the big issue that delayed this happening is the connection to the ratings system. So there should be an absolute yes (goes through even if ratings are unchanged), and a conditional yes (meaning it should only happen if ratings will be changed to reflect vote changes). ... And I really do wish new votes would extend the voting period to ensure last minute vote bombs have a chance at being reviewed (even if it would open things up to trolls occasionally forcing a debate to stay open indefinitely).


4. Are you for or against the implementation of a polling section in DART?
It would certainly be nice to be able to make polls within the forums...


5. Are you for or against the implementation of some non-intrusive advertisements on DART?
Could also do with more options. Some people will claim any ad is intrusive, so maybe a scale from from pop-ups (I hope we never have those), to static banners, to small things, to text only (like we see on Google with sponsored links).
#26
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@Imabench
Is there a time and a place for when members of DDO can pitch policy ideas for these MEEPS or is that basically something members can do at any time as long as they contact an admin/mod in a PM?
Any time, and pretty much any place. Good places which come to mind:

  • The Platform Development thread (I suggest tagging Virtuoso and/or Ragnar).
  • A new thread from the main forum (ideally tag us, we don't read everything).
  • A new debate (tag us in the comments).
  • Direct Messaging.

There's no required format (both the suggestion and something it hopes to improve would be nice).

Before the last referendum I left a suggestions thread up for just over a week before it. I had hoped more community ideas would stem from it. I'll admit there was one community idea I rejected pretty hard, but there was a... how to phrase this politely... when someone decides they don't like something without bothering to read it. The request (felt more like a demand), was to outright remove the new CoC from the ballot, and just do small refinements to the old.

Personally, I'd be cool with a non-moderator run referendum. Obviously some veto power would exist, such as if you gathered support and voted in a policy requiring members watch Frozen a minimum of seven times per week; morally we all should, but there's just no practical way to enforce it.
#27
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Could also do with more options. Some people will claim any ad is intrusive, so maybe a scale from from pop-ups (I hope we never have those), to static banners, to small things, to text only (like we see on Google with sponsored links).
^^^ Smart idea, plz do it.
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#28
PressF4Respect
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Ok since it seems there is no more activity on here I guess I'll make the actual DART thread based on the current questions.