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@Barney
I'm a firm believer in there being two types of scum. There are mafia who are forced to be scum, and townsmen who choose to be scum.
sure.
Getting rid of the first is how the game is won, but removing the second isn't so bad.
Fair enough, though I hope we can see past the strategic scummyness and actually lynch scum.
Of course I did not know you were at work. Sorry about that, i did not mean to be an ass.
No worries man, it was tongue in cheek, I didn't mean to imply in any way that you were being an ass... good to see ya btw...
I'll keep your schedule in mind the remaining days.
I just don't want to be lynched for inactivity during the day time which is how it's going to be... but at the point where my inactivity is detrimental to town, a lynch on me is understandable and I'd expect as much... it is how the game goes. We certainly don't want to give scum a free pass just cuz they are lurking and creating excuses, so I'll do my best to keep any anti-town inactivity to a minimum.
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@Zaradi
I want your thoughts on 273 as well, but I could only tag 5 people at once because...*shrug*
You make some very well articulated arguments re Luna's behavior... I'm going to have to go back and read through his posts while I read through the whole DP and keep your pointin mind. My only reservation is that I find DP1 difficult to take some of what people say too seriously sometimes because it is often to force themselves or others into activity or to illicit a response... But I do find what you have said here compelling and it's worth consideration. I'll get back to you on this further later
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@coal
When you wrote 443, were you posting after having read the DP or only after having come in and read only my prompting you to post?
Right now I'm going through the direct posts @ me... I probably should read through the whole DP first (I've skimmed it a bit on my way home), but for now I'm just answering what' been asked of me first... So I've mostly just read only your prompting post... and I'm going down the list of posts I've got notifications for... I'll read through the whole DP in a second, which is perhaps the better idea, and I'll adjust my thoughts and whatnot after doing so... perhaps clarifications have been made
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@Lunatic
Thoughts on objectivity wanting to lynch his number 4 scum read over his number 1 scum read based on his interpretation of the crowd thinking his number 1 scum read could be "useful dp1"?
man, I don't know... I mean if I had a solid #1 scum read on DP1 and I knew there wasn't going to be any chance to lynch them or get further pressure on them, then I'd probably be fine going in a different direction... For better or worse, and it's probably the latter, I'm inclined to almost give everyone the benefit of the doubt DP1 and just assume any statement is an attempt at just finding something to point a finger somewhere and trying to get a result out of it... The amount of discussion about inactivity proves that. Don't get me wrong, inactivity is scummy, but it's also entirely justifiable in this game so far... Thankfully we have 4 days for the DP, and any player who really doesn't do anything, or post at all, or offer anything, really will be a justifiable lynch at the end of it - but not after just a single evening of this game (currently now being the second as far as I know)... I mean at some points in this DP the main scum reads seem to be myself and Dani, and if I'm not mistaken the two of us happen to be the oldest and perhaps busiest individuals here.
So I'm a bit null on this point in itself, though if you could link me to the post where this happens maybe in context I'd have further thoughts on it.
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@coal
Your inactivity is conspicuous
Shouldn't be... During the working hours of a week day it shouldn't be too surprising I am at work and not posting... I mean I get that's what scum trying to lay low would say, but it's also what a busy with work townie would say too...
I think that at this stage of the game, any inactivity scum reads are a bit ludicrous. This is essentially a DDO reunion game... We might have had an average age in our early 20s back then... it's been a long time since we began and now our averages have to be in the late 20s (some of us are now in our mid to late 30s)... so now some of us have lives, wives, jobs and hobs... It should be understandable that inactivity is just going to be part of this game. I am however 1 for 1 in posting as soon as I could. This is also DP1 in a theme-less game, the very definition of low activity type scenario ( at least for me since I don't care for this set up nor am I very good at it). In fact almost everything I've read in this DP is a bit fluffy and otherwise forced as is indicated as well in your post I'm replying to.
and your analysis so far has been weak and inconsistent with your town meta.
How? and how could you possibly know? I've played one game of forum mafia in something like 3 years... Live mafia is completely inapplicable here- it's not the same game... The most recent game I played my town meta was the same it is now in the limited examples we have... very little activity with a few posts at an attempt at providing some limited analysis... so far, my meta has been exactly followed... This seems like a 'throw a bunch of stuff at the wall, and see what sticks' kind of statement. I will however agree that my analysis has been weak, it was essentially an activity post just making my presence known and offering whatever I could - which wasn't much. But the meta statement is just absurd, and dare I say, scummy even.
Like I said with Ragnar, we are 320 posts into the DP and you have yet to make more than one semi-substantive post in response to anything that anyone has written.
I wouldn't even say my posts were the least bit substantive... I made a joke, and said hey yall, and offered pointless analysis for a DP1 at that point that had almost nothing I was willing to analyze.
You need to be more active or I will be at least as willing to lynch you as I am Ragnar, but at least he has posted something.
I'm here mostly for the reunion aspect of this game. I don't want to harm anyone's enjoyment of this game though, so I will try my best to be as active as I can, but as Luna has pointed out and given reasons for, I'm certainly not going to be the most active player here... I don't want to be anti-town though, so I'm going to do my best not to be lynched for inactivity, and where possible, I'm going to do my best to offer some analysis...
I want your full list of reads immediately
I'll get back to you on that, but I think I can say at this point, that you'll probably be topping it. I don't care much for DP1, since behavior usually fits into categories of inactivity, forced activity, and weak analyzation and responses to those categories... i don't give much credit to those factors and so any read I point out on those instances are generally going to be forced.
However making a case against me that my, if even existent, town meta isn't being followed, as a reason to assume I'm scum, is pretty scummy... firstly, it's impossible to know if I'm following my meta if I've been inactive... if being inactive is my scum meta then you'll have to find a source for that, which you'll be unable to do since I haven't been scum in half a decade from my recollection. Just the idea of pointing to meta reasons for pressuring me or providing reasoning for my lynch is absurd... comes off to me as a scum trying to build a wagon with some shallow logic - and hoping that no one looked into it...
and an indication of why you think them; as well as the person who you think we should be lynching today and why. If you disagree with Objectivity, I want an explanation as to why.
sure, I'll get back to you on all this as soon once I've browsed the DP a bit more...
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Well this DP has been a whole lota nothing so far... without a theme this should be interesting since we wont have a lot to pressure for until we want roles. I do feel like saying though, that it is not scummy for me to be inactive during a work day during work hours... Yes I admit, I was working all day today and didn't post until now... inactivity to this point should mostly be a null read... Now that the work day is over I am home and currently writing this very post, which is mostly fluff cuz this whole DP is mostly fluff...
I've got a moderate town read on TUF, though I've misread him in the past but I think I know his game play pretty well... He'll remain a town read in my book until further notice
Coal has an eccentric, for a lack of a better term, DP1 style that has been consistent with town play I've seen from him in the past... from my recollection, which might be useless perhaps, he'd be a bit less on the radar with his scum meta... so I'm gona assume he's town for now...
Danielle is null since she's busy and hasn't posted much... I do believe she may be Batman, so her lack of inactivity until later is entirely understandable and laudable
I'm gona go ahead an OMGUS Sui and Ragnar for fun... pressuring me for inactivity due to employment is uncool... so they are on my scum list for, well, reasons
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sup yallz? How's it goin? Reading through the DP now
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Round 7 Challenge: Emperor's New Clothes - Expert
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Bonus Beat Saber: Without Me ILLENIUM Remix - Expert+
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After 6 rounds:
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1st round: Legend-Hard
Airmax: Full Combo, 152,842
Lunatic: Full Combo, 120,692
2nd round: Boulevard of Broken Dreams-Expert
Lunatic: 770/808, 374,836
Airmax: 789/808, 581, 536
3rd round: High Hopes-Expert
Airmax: 769/795, 554,983
Lunatic: 778/795, 438,626
4th round: We won't Be Alone- Expert
Lunatic: 663/673, 409,876
Airmax: 663/673, 511,013
5th round: Radioactive - Expert
Airmax: 693/714, 496,184
Lunatic: 700/714, 473,642
6th round: Crab Rave - Expert
Lunatic: 611/643, 305,771
Airmax: 627/643, 450,646
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@Lunatic
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@Lunatic
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For round 3 I challenge you to High Hopes-Expert:
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After 2 rounds:
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1st round: Legend-Hard
Airmax: Full Combo, 152,842
Lunatic: Full Combo, 120,692
2nd round: Boulevard of Broken Dreams-Expert
Lunatic: 770/808, 374,836
Airmax: 789/808, 581, 536
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@Lunatic
Legend hard, full combo.
Nicely done.
boulevard of brokem dreams on expert!
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@Zaradi
No perfect score for ducktales? Tsk tsk.
Haha it's a pretty tough song... and for the most part, what I do is practice a song a couple times then record it, and what I did that time is what you get - which is sometimes disappointing for me... I rarely go back and record again even if I know I could do better, and have done better. I do think this particular recorded version is one of my better showings on that song, but if I tried enough I'm pretty sure I could full combo it
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@Vaarka
It's one of the greatest games ever, so it is a shame that there's still a substantial barrier to entry since it requires a decent PC (or PS4) and an HMD. But hopefully in the next few years it will have greater availability to more people as a result of lower prices and accessibility. The oculus quest is one such HMD making Beat Saber, and VR, easier and more accessible lately.
Even if you can't play, you do have an opportunity to enjoy an epic back and forth battle of Beat Sabering between Lunatic and myself with the fate of humanity hanging in the balance, as detailed in this thread:
It should eventually feature many great video posts of high quality Beat Saber action.
Also hey airmax! Never thought I'd see you here
Well I have to be somewhere, and so, I might as well be here. Good to see you btw, I hope all is well with you.
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Firstly, let me congratulate DebateArt on being chosen as the venue for this epic battle. Mars, The moon, even a floating island above Manhattan were considered for this momentous event.
I, the one of many names, have come to challenge for the fate of humanity as it is written:
"...And lo, he shall come upon that day to challenge for the fate of the world via the word and the saber, and then mankind shall know I am with them" - Leviticus 26-12
And so it has come to pass that your champion, Lunatic of DebateArt, will take up the sabers to defend the fate of humanity, via a series of Beat Saber challenges.
We will begin with the first challenge, in a manner befitting my introduction:
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Legend (Hard)
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Good luck to Lunatic, I eagerly await your response, you just got served sir. While the world has had a good run, I consider you a worthy opponent and look forward to this ultimate battle for the fate of humanity.
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Bonus Beat Sabering, for entertainment purposes only:
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@Vader
OSU and BeatSaber are both rhythm games, yet I believe the comparison to them ends there - though I imagine a similar sense of satisfaction can be derived from both. I haven't played OSU so I can't speak about it much.
With osu! too, you can hear click of the beat versus the VR where you may not hear it overall
Yeah, it seems to be different focus in OSU. OSU (based on my limited knowledge) seems act as more directly to 1 to 1 beat reactions. BeatSaber can have this aspect on certain maps, but the focus is a bit different. Sword slices, directions and movements can be a bit less direct to the aspect of the song. The best BeatSaber maps use the potential of the songs though. If there are a lot of beats, there should be a lot of notes to hit. The chorus of the songs should contain similar, if not identical, movements. Either way it has to all flow well and feel like it relates to the song. The most fun maps, the ones I play over and over again, are ones that seem impossible at first, but are logical and able to learn with some practice. Some maps just seem too random for the sake of creating really challenging but awkward swing moments.
The second song I posted is a great example of excellent map creation. There are some very difficult moments, but the movements are very fluid once learned, and they repeat with the portions of the song. You can actually see that in either video I get a bit better at anticipating note locations over time and that's an indication of a really good map design.
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@Vader
Yeah, it is essentially OSU but in VR... I'd also expand that to every rhythm game... DDR, guitar hero etc... The only difference is the ultimate design and therefore satisfaction from the game. I'd imagine DDR is similar in that sense, though I never gave that much of a chance...
If you get any kind of VR, BeatSaber should be your first purchase...
I bought a PS4 just to play Tetris Effect, and then I had to buy a PSVR to utilize its VR aspects, and that game is amazing... but BeatSaber is THE VR system seller... I bought a gaming PC and Rift S largely to play BeatSaber. The rift S has internal sensors (better than the PSVR external) and PC VR allows for modding. While I can go on for awhile about the greatness of VR, it largely starts at BeatSaber. So the day you get a VR headset, BeatSaber should be the first game you play.
On a side note, Facebook just bought Beat Games (the creators of BeatSaber). While I don't care much for facebook, the stuff they are doing with VR is amazing. I'm very excited to see what Facebook does with the acquisition of beat games - hopefully they don't stop user mods, that's my only fear - and with furthering VR in general.
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The title of this thread might be a bit hyperbolic, but there's certainly an argument to be made for it.
Not since Tetris has a game held my focus to such a degree that I've been put in a nearly zen like state. While ultimately all you are doing in BeatSaber is swinging a light sword at block at various angles, it is this simplicity that is also its genius. The cliche' about easy to learn, simple to master most certainly applies to Beat Saber, and it's that learning curve that makes it almost as satisfying as slicing those note blocks in half.
At first, the new player will start with easy songs (and perhaps the campaign mode) and get the hang of it pretty quickly, but then the difficulty is ramped up and a road block may be placed before the player. It is at this moment that the genius of the game truly manifests. Many attempts and failures at the same song will ultimately result in one of the most satisfying game outcomes, that, I don't believe I have felt in any game before and likely wont for a long time.
it is in that moment of trying to pass a particularly difficult section of a song, where once it felt almost unachievable, only to find oneself swinging, almost instinctively, possessed by some inner desire for mastery, finally taking over - and then bam, song beaten and mission accomplished. Of course, that sensation isn't inexplicable, or spiritual or anything beyond simple science. It is simply muscle memory taking over in a manner not dissimilar to finger movements on a flat game. However, in BeatSaber this is almost your entire body reaction to muscle memory, getting you past a portion of a song you thought would be impossible. I can't tell you how many times I've just gotten beyond a portion of a song just to think to myself, 'holy fluck, how did I just do that....' And that sensation of being a Jedi Master is then fully internalized, and you can't help but think, Darth Vader would be a push over in a light saber battle if he hasn't played Beat Saber.
It's hard to properly articulate exactly what it is that makes BeatSaber so satisfying, but I believe the above mostly describes my experience with it. In fact I've become so enthusiastic with BeatSaber (and VR in general, I'm practically a VR evangelist at this point) that I was compelled to learn how to record my oculus feed and post clips to Youtube.
This first vid is me playing Panic at the Disco, greatest show... this is the first time I ever recorded something, so for whatever reason, perhaps minor latency, my skills (as humble as they may be) are a bit off....
This second vid is of me playing some remake of I Knew You Were Trouble on Expert+... I wanted to test a harder song and resolve recording issues and such... so these vids might not be the best display of my skill in Beat Saber or video production(perhaps they are) but they reflect my attempt at figuring out the technical aspects of oculus recording... but most importantly, they allow me to visualize my enthusiasm for, if not the best game ever, the best game of this generation - the impact of which is yet to fully be seen.
I hope you enjoyed the vids, and if you have any thoughts on anything, please share them in this thread.
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Fine I'll NL but I urge everyone alive in the next DP to not vote on anyone until we have discussed it thoroughly... any vote on anyone will lead to an immediate hammer - and therefore likely mislynch... so let's be careful about it when the time comes
also the argument that I'm behind the NKs because they are savvy is not very reasonable... any of the 4 of us have enough mafia experience to know whom to NK in this situation... but I appreciate the compliment
VTNL
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@Trent0405
I've played the heck out of Zelda games (N64 and before), and I played the heck out of GTA San Andreas (ironically when I was playing it, casually driving the country side and seeing the redwood trees, I do recall thinking it was the greatest game of all time), but I (and I think most people) aren't going to go back and play those games, because there is actually a maxed out point of those games where you literally have done everything. You can get a bit more out of them with speed runs, but they, like other open world/story driven games, do have a finite shelf life. With mods some of those games can be extended like Skyrim, which I have put 100s (if not over a thousand) hours into and bought like 4 times across multiple platforms. But it's shelf life is still limited, unlike, what I'd argue, with Tetris. (There are arguments along those lines to be made with multiplayer games though - one could arguably get satisfaction out of playing something like Overwatch forever - and I'd put that game in my top 100 - but that genre argument falls apart with modernization)
I have no idea what to say my highscore is on tetris since the game varies widely across platform and more importantly 'sub genre', which breaks down between "Classic tetris" and "Modern tetris".
Classic Tetris was what most experienced on Gameboy (and then every other pre-modern platform), with its most important feature, differentiating it from modern Tetris, being the fact that pieces locked the moment the piece hit the playing field. Modern Tetris has banking pieces, and most importantly, it allow you to move the piece forever as long as you keep moving it. As someone who cut his tetris chops for years on classic Tetris, the modern game allows me to pretty much play infinitely. So it's not really a matter of what my high score is these days, it's an issue of how how long I am willing to play endless marathon for, before I have to go do other things. I've actually considered going for the highscore on endless marathon on Tetris effect (the most amazing tetris game ever, especially in VR - I can actually feel the latency decrease in VR that playing in non-VR actually feels slow now... a half a millisecond is real), but the consideration isn't about skill, but about whether I want to play a single game for around 80 hours.
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Teris has a style (often imitated, but never duplicated) of easy to learn - tough to master, zen-like gameplay that makes it stand out.
But Beat Saber is a close second to me, in terms of recent games that I'll be playing for a long time. It's easy to pick up and learn, and is zen like tetris is, but in an entirely different way.
When I first started playing, and tried to take on expert mode I was like "There's no way I can do this". But with some practice and time, the feeling of hitting every note, and the sense of muscle memory taking over, makes you feel a sense of satisfaction, like being an unstoppable Jedi master, that no other game has ever made me experience.
I can only play Beat Sabre in short bursts (like any other VR games) but putting on that head set, selecting a song I want to play, and then trying to master a song requiring full body control, creates a zen like focus that no other video game that I've played can match. I don't even know how to describe the feeling when a part of a song comes up where you think 'There's no way I'm going to get past this' and then finally your arms feel like they are just instinctively moving on their own - and when you are finally done you think, "I could beat Darth Vader easily in a light Saber duel...".
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@Trent0405
I believe it is its simplicity that makes it a timeless game. Sure there's a time and place for story-driven character focused games, and I love playing them. But in a few years I'll have moved on from whatever it is and I'll still be playing Tetris. I'm certain I made this same argument 10 years ago and I certainly don't play whatever the triple-A game was I playing at the time anymore - but I still play Tetris.
I made this argument around 20 years ago (and I recall the time frame specifically because of the game referenced) where my friend asked "Wouldn't you rather be playing Goldeneye (The classic N64 game) instead?", and my answer is the same. "Yes, as of this moment I'd rather play some golden-gun/facility/no odd job-4 player Goldeneye right now". But as times goes on I'll eventually stop playing it, though I'll always be playing Tetris.
I don't believe there is any other game you can make that argument for.
Games like Pac-Man and Pong, among others, come close, but nothing compares to the staying power of Tetris.
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Best video game of all time is Tetris... it's not even debatable ;)
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As far as treading carefully, the threat doesn't make much sense. I am pushing the logic that when I die that people should be hesitant to grant your town read on me as town cred. Are you threatening my already likely death with an OMGUS read?
I'm saying you are wasting your time (the comment was tongue in cheek, don't read into it too much)... I'm already the #2... let's play this out... You get lynched you flip inno... I'm the auto #2 target already... I know I'm going to get lynched... so the only way I can play this out and win and help town (since I assume you are town at the moment) is to make sure we catch scum right now - which means we don't lynch you (and then me naturally next DP.)
You seem to be assuming that this is some sort of gambit to get town cred, but I'm already assuming I'm the next best target for DP4... All my chips have to be on the table right now
Your town read on me seems based on convenience and self preservation, thus manufactured.
It's partially true that it's self preservation cuz once you are gone, I seem to be the next wagon... but I'd be happy to be lynched right now if town then went after scum the next DP (whom I'm starting to have a better sense of - and will post more about tomorrow), but I can't be assured of that... so instead I have to defend you, and defend my defense of you, and then build a case elsewhere... or as godfather I could just jump on your wagon, see you lynched by tomorrow evening, and play it off as greyparrots fault that we mislynched... I wouldn't even have to go to all this trouble
anyways that's gotta be my last post tonight... I'll catch ya'll later
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I'm not gona get sucked into a Lunatic versus Airmax dynamic... this is how the town will lose. Lunatic is pushing me as scum, while I'm genuinely trying to get us to focus elsewhere in the meantime. Yes we can lynch Lunatic at the end if we have no other option, but no further case is going to be made more convincing against him as far as I can tell, so we really don't have to focus much there for awhile until the end of the DP if we really can't discover a better option. Let's not get tunneled on this if we can avoid it.
I'm a bit concerned with how quickly Speed was on and then off my wagon... I also don't understand why he reads Lunatic as town (Yes I realize I do, but I feel I'm out on my own limb on that one)
So I'd like to hear more from Speed and certainly from PressF
That will be all from me tonight, I'll be back tomorrow evening around 8pm central time
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@Lunatic
Can you say what specifically was poor about my play? Just saying I was wrong about drafter and didn't participate on a scum lynch isn't scummy by itself.
The results were poor, and that is why you find yourself as the #1 lynch target this DP.
Assuming I am town I wouldn't know the affiliations of either of those idividuals. All I have is the logic I used about behavior, and so far no one has tried to prove that wrong. Town can be wrong but for the right reasons.
Don't have to convince me, I'm one of the few people in your corner at the moment.
It seems to me that if I get lynched and flip innocent you want to give yourself some town cred for strongly considering the possibility I was town. The read on me seems manufactured my friend.
I've considered this, and I already recognize that I'm target #2 after you - if we lynch you and you flip inno as I expect, regardless of whatever I say here (this town-cred gambit you think I might be pulling) I'm the next target - so it doesn't matter, I'm not motivated in defending you for town cred. I'm motivated in convincing the town not to rush to lynching. So this is why I want to be very careful about this DP, and not rush to lynching you. Instead, I'd like us to be methodical, and actually lynch scum.
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@Lunatic
If you "should" be on me why aren't you?
There's no point at which I said we "Should" be lynching you. In fact, I am saying the opposite of that. I'm really confused at the motivation of this (aside from putting the suspicion on me instead of you, which I get - but I'm the only true believer in your cause at the moment, so I'd tread carefully)... If you are assuming that I'm saying we should be lynching you, are you saying that I'm scummy for not pushing your lynch? What is even the point of what you just said?
My response was to Speed, who then reconsidered his vote. If you think what I said wasn't convincing of anything, you should probably be talking to him.
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@Greyparrot
Yeah that's a good point... let's see what PressF has to say and go from there
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@A-R-O-S-E
So you want speed?
The biggest problem I have right now is that I can't build a case against anyone at the moment. Perhaps counterintuitively my only goals at the moment is to say we shouldn't rush to lynch Lunatic, and secondarily to make the case that I'm not scum - though the latter really shouldn't require much effort. The former is going to be the greater struggle.
I'm going to take some more time to suss out exactly whom I think we should lynch.
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@Greyparrot
Luna clearly is not town for the sole reason He pushed a ridiculously WIFOMMY double bus theory to eliminate Drafter.Please POE that scum.
You need to put alot more faith in Occam's Razor.
I know, honestly I really know. But I really want to win this game, especially considering how far ahead we got after DP2, and while Lunatic is definitely scummy, I don't see this as his scum play, but as his poor town play... I'm really struggling with this... so bear with me, but we've got time, we don't need to rush anything
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@Speedrace
Was the deal that we would lynch lunatic over drafter? I don't think I ever agreed to that, I only went with drafter because if I had to choose between him and lunatic, I would choose drafter...So I'm going VTL Airmax
I'm not going to OMGUS you, but the arguments Lunatic have made so far in this game have all been wrong... DP1 he tried to sway the lynch away from SA... he, like I, missed DP2... And in DP3 he built the wagon on Drafter... Now, traditionally I might be saying that we should lynch him for this, but I'm not. Again I am not saying we should lynch lunatic. Instead what I am saying is that we shouldn't buy anything he says in regards to whom we should lynch. So I implore you to reconsider listening to him about FOSing me now.
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@Greyparrot
Easy. He somehow convinced town that Drafter was scum for lynching 2 scum. You do NOT have to overanalyze this. Just eliminate Luna, call it POE call it whatever, just do it.
All I have to go on right now is my gut... but my logical side is telling me that you are right and that we should lynch lunatic for being very wrong so far... but my gut is telling me something else...
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@Speedrace
What do you say about Lunatic's cop/grandfather analysis?
There's nothing I can say to refute it. If I'm godfather naturally I allow the cop to stay alive since why should I care... There is however nothing in my behavior to suggest that I am mafia in the least... did I lead any mislynches? Have I done anything the least bit suspicious? No. I contributed to a lynch in DP1 (that clearly wasn't a bus) and I missed all of DP2 since it went so quickly with a scum slip. On DP3 I stated that I hated the lunatic or Drafter dynamic since I felt both were town, but I eventually conceded since one or the other was going to get lynched and I wanted the game to move on.
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This is gona be Wifomy but I'm going to do it anyway...
If I were scum, right now I would build a case against Lunatic and get the easy mislynch... and the fact that he's saying we should mislynch me to test my claim isn't even a significant part of the argument... to be clear, don't test my claim, it will end in my mislynch obviously
Being that I don't think Lunatic is scum, I think he's just misguided town, I'm not going to do that, but I'd like to make it clear that as scum I would do that in a second and have no difficulty in doing so.
Another reason that we can assume I am town is that at the 11th hour of DP1 I offered independent reasoning on SA... and we caught scum. There is no way I was bussing my teammate as I had no reason to stick on him and town was far from decided... in fact I could have easily conceded to Lunatic's case and ignored SA for the time being. I just felt he was the best bet, and I went with my gut and we caught scum.
That aside, we can't let Mafia make the greatest come back ever, so we need to be slow and methodical here.
I happen to think Lunatic is town, because as scum his behavior makes even less sense than it does as town - even if as town he's scummy as hell.
I think a cop makes sense, so I'm fine with PressF in the town pile.
Before this DP started I was considering Wylted and Greyparrot town too, so they are definitely in the town side.
That leads Speed and Arose, both of whom I have no specific read on at the moment, but I'll get to that in the near future. To be clear though that doesn't mean I'm saying they are scum, just that POE leaves them as the odd guys out.
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fine, what the hell, hopefully one of our investigative roles will come up with something when Drafter flips town
VTL Drafter
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I'm not exactly a fan of this dynamic... I don't want to lynch between Drafter and Lunatic since I town read both of them... but I town read Drafter more, so if we are forced to choose...
I think final scum is probably Oro, Speed or Arose, simply based on POE, but I don't have a specific scum read on any of them
ugh, I'm gona go back and read through the DPs a bit more
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I was gona post more last night but after my initial post the site went down...
So on to my reads then:
Town:
Drafter - Behavior reads town to me as he is clearly scum hunting, and he was immediately on SA and Supa lynches and actively pursuing them. I don't see how a mafia bus can be argued in those cases.
Press4 - I don't understand the early cop claim, and why he's not dead at this point, but Dwight is un-CC'd and so is his cop claim. While I don't understand the playstyle necessarily, it seems more likely that press is town than anything else.
Wylted - His general behavior lately and DP1 reasoning on SA read townish to me.
Slight Town:
Lunatic - I was probably going to pressure him hard and make a case against him in DP2. I did not like the 11th hour switch to Arose on what I saw as minimal behavioral evidence, and then when SA flipped scum, it made Lunatic appear even more scummy. However, at this point, I think both of those are justified as (perhaps misguided) townish play. Lunatic's agitation at this point, reads more to me like a frustrated town player, than scum trying to avoid a lynch.
GrayParrot - I don't really have any behavioral reads, so this is a very weak town lead for me. We just have Wylted's results and I read Wylted as town.
Null:
Speed
Oro
Arose
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Sorry for my inactivity lately... DP2 happened too fast for me to post and I haven't had until now to post in this DP.
So I'm happy that we hit right on lynching SA, even if my affiliation justification was entirely wrong. But my gut and my sense of his claim being potentially intentionally obscure (and his general behavior) were right on. Ironically his actual character turned out to be obscure as well.
At this stage I see no downside to full claiming, as assuming we are buying the cop claim and result, I'm pretty much town confirmed and an obvious NK target in this next NP.
I'm a hated townie, so it takes one fewer vote to lynch me (I actually hinted at my role in my post explaining my vote on SA in DP1 "Please don't put me at L-1")... as Toby, this is easily justified. When I was considering affiliation theme I figured it might be possible other corporate or non-scranton characters could be scum with me as an exception, but as a hated townie, thus my argument against SA in DP1. While that has proven to not be the case, my read on him proved accurate anyway...
I'm still reading through the DPs and will offer other thoughts soon.
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@Lunatic
Your read and ultimate reason for voting SA seems heavily based on some link between your roles indication of the theme. I hope you understand that this will be brought up again if SA is lynched and flips town, because I am assuming whatever it is that's in your PM must be pretty damning to justify lynching him for his claim over behavior, and a scummier AROSE.
It's a combination of everything, and ultimately that he's the best lynch target this late into DP1. I've read Arose's posts and I really don't see the scummyness you are seeing. I actually grant him some credit for locking in his character so early.
I think there's some validity to what I'm arguing regarding the character affiliation point, but it's not that damning. If SA flips town I'll have to role claim and the link may seem pretty weak, but the combination of everything else still makes it the strongest target we have, and I don't think we are getting a new and better target now, at the 11th hour of the DP. I've made my points about SA as the target and I've pointed out areas in which I'm reluctant and where there are flaws, but I'm locked in now. There's a strong possibility that I'm wrong, but that's how DP1 goes, and I'd rather err to that side than no lynch.
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@PressF4Respect
Are you a miller?
I'm reluctant to say anything really since role claiming and even implication is risky at this point, but being probed for being miller and then being vague about it is scummy as hell. So no, I am not miller, I will most certainly come up innocent upon investigation.
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@Lunatic
Ultimately I'm concluding that SA is the best lynch target this DP, not that I have any certainly of it, nor that any of my arguments for it are particularly solid.
I don't know if pressuring someone over an assumed thematic element is the correct choice
I agree, and typically I would say it's not a good idea to analyze in this way, but I'm narrowing down the best choices and my gut is telling me SA.
s the distinction in your role PM vague, or pretty blunt about the anti-scranton thing?
It makes sense for my character, but it does not at all imply anything to do with a possible scranton/non scranton theme for the game.... I'm drawing the conclusion that my character's role is X, and therefore others in a similar place in the office universe may therefore be scum. it's a loose reasoning for sure.
Also your character is anti scranton too I thought since he works with corporate?
Right, this is the point, and therefore my role - which happens to be town... but everyone else may therefore be scum. I am possibly the one exception and therefore my role. On the other hand I could be entirely wrong about this, but its the best I have to go on right now.
I'm not going to be very active tomorrow, and by the time I get back from work the DP will probably be over so I want to be sure to go with what I think is best while I still have time. If in my further analysis of the DP tonight I reconsider, I will be sure to change my vote accordingly. But for now I feel like SA is our best bet.
I might be able to help town a little though by letting them know possible scum characters in this thematic alignment:
Off the top of my head the following all work for corporate:
Jan Levinson
David Wallace
Robert California
Charles Miner
Ryan was an intern at scranton and then eventually worked for corporate - so that might be scummy
Toby works for scranton as corporate HR - which is scummy I admit, but I'm town, and my role makes sense in the alignment I'm assuming
So if anyone in the town is any of the 4 characters above and wants to let us know that this alignment isn't accurate go ahead. However I'd caution that if any of the above 4 characters are town, they seem likely to be power roles.
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Arose was the first to lock down a claim of any kind, this tends to be a towny action... although the claim itself (Ryan) leads me to some concern, which I'll detail later in this post. I'll have to take Lunatic's word for it that his behavior is more scummy than usual since I have no perspective on it, and so Arose could be considered a target for the future.
I believe there is an inherent risk is getting too bogged down in thematic affiliation analysis, but Drafter's hunch on a Scranton Vs. others dynamic has stuck with me today for some reason, and I believe it has some merit. This might seem counter intuitive due to my character, but bear with me.
I feel like my role may confirm the inherent scummyness of the 'non-scranton' side. I'd rather not role claim at the moment, though please don't put me at L-1. This does FOS Arose (Ryan) to some extent, though I feel like we should explore that further later. It also puts in question any other non-scranton character of which we don't have any aside from me (though really I am ultimately a Scranton character, hence why I'm town), something mafia have conveniently avoided claiming as far as I can tell. This leads me to feel like AJ, an obscure non-scranton character is probably scum, and at this point a combination of behavior and claim should lead to his lynch.
The behavior aspect of SA is harder for me to justify, since I haven't played with him and much of his play can be attributed to being new. I feel like the immediate role claim though is scummy (and conveniently vanilla), and then it took awhile to get what we should have gotten already in the character claim.
Lunatic's efforts read town to me
Drafter always comes off as town to me so take with a grain of salt the fact that I read him, who is acting as a quality scum hunter at the moment, as town so far.
Supa posts a lot of stuff that doesn't read either way. If I didn't know his playstyle I'd read it as scummy, but for now I'm null on him.
I have no reads to expand upon at the moment on anyone else.
I believe SirAnonymous is our best bet this DP, and so I am going to vote for his lynch.
VTL SirAnonymous
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catching up on the DP now... I have some thoughts on lynching SA and will reread Arose's posts to offer thoughts on that in my next post
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@Wylted
Did Airmax specifically wake up at 4 am to play this thinking he could dodge interactions with me. Dude WHEN I am not sleeping 15 hours a day, I sleep 3 hours a day. Try next week.
haha why would I want to avoid interactions with you?
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@Wylted
I don't know. Everything SA says sounds like it is from a robot, which has always been a scummy thing in my experience. Like he is forcing his interactions. Hard to describe, but I know it when I see it. Just like with what "vulgar material" is
Fair enough, though some of his play appears pretty genuine to me as someone unsure, but trying, which is why I'm having a hard time reading into his behavior.
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I feel like the case against SIrAnon is too circumstantial. He seems like a somewhat knowledgeable player that made a couple of noob slips that could be interpreted as townish or scummy... So the obscure claim is the only thing that I believe has any validity, and that gets us into risky territory. I don't want a mass character claim, or any more claims at this point... but can anyone else in the town indicate as to whether or not they have as obscure of a character?
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