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@triangle.128k
Would you like to talk more about the content and structure of the debate?
Like, what, specifically we will be debating? Which of your two major points? Or do you want to debate the genocide rallying cry you made at the end of death to all jews commonly made by Neo-Nazi terrorists?
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@FLRW
according to which computer model? And which dataset?
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Thanks for adding another reason for me not to vote for her. As if I needed more than 20
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@Best.Korea
Are you quoting Putin?
No... 🧐
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@Best.Korea
There is no objective morality. Morality is subjective. Thats why 2 persons can have completely different morality.
Two people can also be wrong and think they're right.
I also made it simple.
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@SethBrown
Don't forget about Mary's genealogy in Luke 3:
23 Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel,[a] the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
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@FLRW
The microorganisms that live near such plumes have led some scientists to suggest them as the birthplaces of Earth's first life forms.
Then why ain't I lava-proof?
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Why would people, in an authoritarian nation, where their religion was highly disfavored, even by their own Jewish sect, and made illegal, and they were literally fed to lions for entertainment if not beaten or imprisoned without food or drink, make up a resurrection story and PURPOSELY put a target on their back and then, at the end, all die for this lie?
And, moreover, why in the world would they do all of that and NOT ASK FOR A SINGLE PENNY for themselves?
Does that make sense to you? Did Elron Hubbard, Joseph Smith, or Charles Russel do that?
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@Best.Korea
Objective morality means that it cannot contradict itself.
Objective morality doesn't contradict itself. Subjective morality does. Just because two people are discussing subjective morality, that doesn't mean objective morality doesn't exist.
A case in point, the flat earth debate. Flat earthers insist the earth is flat. Round earthers INSIST the earth is round. In reality, the earth is neither. It is an oblong sphere with peaks and valleys in it and a very uneven surface.
But just because these two groups are debating a subjective idea (the shape of the earth), that doesn't mean the earth itself doesn't have a shape...
Same with morality. Just because people debate it, that doesn't mean there is no morality.
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@FLRW
Well, as much as I love America, it's one of, like 200+ countries.
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@Best.Korea
The mere fact that there is a moral disagreement tells you that morality is entirely subjective.
Why is something subjective because people debate it? People literally debate the existence of a flat earth. Does that mean the idea of the earth being round is subjective?
It's as if you forgot that Ambiguity Aversion, Confirmation Bias, Choice Overload, Cognitive Dissonance, and Bounded Rationality all exist.
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@Athias
Well, at least according to the Mises article, Banks are also responsible for the deficit by being mandated to have shares in their local Federal Reserve. So it could be either or a mixture of both.
They say:
Two candidates are likely to absorb the Fed’s operating losses:
- American taxpayers as a whole. Now that the Fed is incurring operating losses instead of surpluses that would otherwise be paid over to the US Treasury, federal budget deficits are commensurately larger, requiring the Treasury to sell more debt in order pay its bills. This is an obvious cost to American current and future taxpayers.
- Commercial banks that are members of the Federal Reserve system, which are required to buy and hold stock shares in their respective Fed district banks. The 1913 Federal Reserve Act specified that these member banks could be assessed for Fed system losses. If the Fed were to make this demand of its member commercial banks, they would be obligated to cover the Fed system’s losses. Again, there is no precedent for this.
Ehile there is no precedent for the second proposed solution, that doesn't mean it won't happen.
Honestly, the WEF has warned that banks are out of money. The usual suspects who dump money into the banking institutions have not done so in a while, and, iirc, new players are lower than usual. (I think they removed the article. I can't find it anymore and neither can AI lol).
Expect more inflation, I suppose, as the Federal Reserve prints more money at our expense to bail themselves out.
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From The Mises Institute:
Financial statements of the US Federal Reserve, which consists of the board of governors in Washington and twelve district reserve banks across the country, indicate that the consolidated system has generated both capital and operating losses for the past couple of years. The Fed was created in 1913 to issue and circulate an “elastic currency” that could respond to consumers’ demand for cash, end bank runs known then as “money panics,” and serve as a “lender of last resort” to the nation’s commercial banks. How is it possible that the Fed could be losing money after one hundred years of operation?
The debate has raged in the banking and finance communities. Two investigators, Paul Kupiec at the American Enterprise Institute and Alex Pollock at the Mises Institute, have analyzed Fed financial statements and presented their findings about these Fed losses in publications such as the Wall Street Journal and on the websites of the American Enterprise Institute, the Mises Institute, the Federalist Society, and Law and Liberty. The Wall Street Journal has produced a nontechnical video explaining how the Fed makes (and loses) money.
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@Barney
@whiteflame
@oromagi
You are the last sad bastard to still believe that desperate lie.
Is it proper conduct for moderators to insult people without cause?
I am all for a debate, but Oromagi has repeatedly barraged me for no real reason. Go over his previous statements in this thread and you will see this.
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@Double_R
I don't care what they tell us
So... I am seeing a soecisl pleading case developing here. You are quick to trust the PA government as an unbiased factual authority without questioning where they get their data from, but are questioning anf distrustful to an audit that plainly lists their sources.
Why does one side have to prove their claims but not the other?
Moreover, I've already explained why their numbers do not tell the story they are telling. Do you have anything to say about that?
No you haven't. You simply did a bait-and-switch. You switched one source for another without putting in any effort to justify why YOUR source has the data. This isn't "explaining" anything. It is denialism.
I also already said I am happy to admit the PA DoS fact sheet on the 2020 election lowers the missing ballots to just 3-4k. But this isn't SURE data. They don't publicly release such analyses to the general public, so who knows if it us the real story.
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@Double_R
Regardless of what the DoS says anyways, they did not give public access to sure, so we don't even know these numbers are real or not.
That being said, I can accept that that website states there are around 3-4k more ballots than voters. But it still isn't the SURE data, if you understand what I am saying.
I am unsure (pun not intended) ehy the DoS put a participation rate instead of the raw voter number anyways. Seems sus.
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@Double_R
so it seems neither of us really know where they're getting any of their information from.
They tell us... in the abstract...
"After all counties closed the election in SURE, only 6,914,556 voters were credited with participation in the 2020 General Election. This reveals a voter deficit of 121,240."
They get their data from SURE itself.
You said:
There's your deficit.
No. That still doesn't explain the discrepancy of voters. We don't know if they removed the discarded voters with the ballots or not.
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@FLRW
This fully explains it
Except that is a totally different claim from the GOP in PA, not Verity Vote's audit in question here.
Snopes says this here:
The apparent source of the misinformation amplified by Trump was a news release issued by Pennsylvania State Rep. Frank Ryan on Dec. 28, maintaining that a comparison of "county election results to the total number of voters who voted" in Pennsylvania revealed a discrepancy of over 203,000 ballots:
But, even so, the Pennsylvania DoS stated not that the SURE system is inaccurate, but that the data was incomplete:
However, the Pennsylvania Department of State (DoS) issued a statement noting that the numbers obtained from the Statewide Uniform Registry of Electors (SURE) system by Ryan were not accurate because they were based on incomplete data. As the DoS observed, "a few counties have not completed uploading their vote histories," and that those as-yet-unreported numbers "would account for a significant number of voters":
The key thing to note, here, is that the Verity Vote audit took place AFTER this letter was passed around. And the American Thinker article adds additional voterd since then, 30,000, that were previously unaccounted for following the audit.
But no new voters have been added since the article, leaving ONCE AGAIN FOR PEOPLE WHO READ, 90,000 MORE BALLOTS THAN VOTERS.
So the Snopes fact check isn't updated for the latest numbers anyways. As it currently stands, the SURE system is still 90,000 voters short of the ballot count. To me, that warrants an audit. Where are the voters? Why haven't 90,000 voters been added after 3 YEARS SINCE THE ELECTION??? You'd think we'd have found them by now, right? 3 years is ample time.
But I'd like to point something else out... Snopes says 6.96 million people voted. They cite a webpage that does not say this. I will prove it.
The website linked is here:
The numbers were: 4,216,030 in-person ballots + 2,637,065 mail-in ballots +126,573 provisional ballots, which totals... 6,979,668 votes.
But the official number from the PA website is 76.5% of 9,090,962 ehich equals: 6,954,586 voters, or a deficit, FROM PA'S OWN FUCKING STATS of
A DEFICIT OF 25,082 VOTERS.
Not 90,000 but still enough to warrant an audit.
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@Double_R
Therefore the claim that there were more ballots cast than eligible voters is ludicrously false
Who claimed this? I didn't and neither did my source. The claim is, as it has been from the beginning, that more votes were recorded than people who voted in the 2020 election. Not that there were more votes than registered voters in general.
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@Double_R
I would tell you to Google it but I already put the information on your lap.
I think I missed the link... And if you didn't open up the report yourself, how do you know if they didn't include write-ins?
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@IwantRooseveltagain
Sounds like another one of Trumps porn star mistresses
RIGHT!?
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@oromagi
Do you have a source proving "democrats don't participate"? Because the actual fucking commonwealth of PA disagrees with you. In a June 30, 2023 annual report to the Pennsylvania General Assembly, the PA Department of State said:
"Through the SURE system, the county voter registration commissions maintain a complete list of all eligible registered voters in the Commonwealth. As of December 2022, there were 8,700,826 registered voters. The charts in this section represent a high-level snapshot of the change in voter registration over both the previous calendar year and the four-year period since the end of 2018. Details broken down by county and party can be found in Appendices A and B."
Basically, EVERYONE BUT YOU understands how SURE works.
And EVERYONE BUT YOU says it is accurate and represents ALL VOTERS in the commonwealth.
You say:
Verity Vote is just the blog of a Trump Fan named Heather Honey
Their about page says:
In 2020 a group of capable investigators who’ve provided investigation and intelligence training to large corporations and government agencies, performed supply chain audits, along with published scientists and engineers, volunteered to analyze issues of election integrity.
To your credit, though, an inquirer article claims, without evidence, that Honey started Verity Vote. Same with a Conservative Partnership Institute article.
But, you know what NOBODY BUT YOU says? That it is just a blog. Because that would be a dumb, gullible lie by any measure.
But what is evem funnier is that I don't agree with the Verity Vote audit because, well, it is outdated. PA has since added another 30,000 voters, so the discrepancy is now 90,000 not 121,000. It seems you've forgotten how to read lately.
In the 2020 election, there were 90,000 more ballots than eligible voters in PA according to the SURE system. This is a fact.
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@Greyparrot
Yeah I heard.
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@Double_R
But just to add insult to injury, the page from Verity Vote themselves on the study states:
"This includes ballots with votes for one of the three major presidential candidates, all write-in votes, all over-votes, all under-votes (as reported by the 67 counties), and the 71K late mail ballots. After all counties closed the election in SURE, only 6,914,556 voters were credited with participation in the 2020 General Election. This reveals a voter deficit of 121,240."
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So they included all write-in ballots anyways.
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@Double_R
They're not missing voters, they're ballots that were cast without voting for one of the three major candidates.
On the 2020 election, only 3 candidates were on the ballot. Trump, Biden, amd Jorgensen:
So you are factually wrong on that.
I'm pointing out that if something so easily verifiable was so egregiously off it would have gained much more attention that being relegated to the dark corners of the internet.
There's plenty of true, alarming stuff the media doesn't report on, like how Israel actually started HAMAS, how they sell china surveillance equipment and their government runs a lot of the surveillance tech companies that the world buys from, for instance.
Or how Congress voted to pass a resolution that turns rare earth mineral mining areas into mational parks instead of approve more rare earth mineral mining.
Or, for fuck sake, Biden and NBC News's financial ties to chinese communist party businesses. Or the fact that George Soros and other billionaires have invested their own money into Chinese EV factories.
You never hear any of that being covered now do you? But it's all true.
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@Double_R
Let me see if I understand you. The PA government data actually does show a discrepancy. Nobody can explain the discrepancy. Nobody even offers an explanation. But we should ignore it because mainstream networks aren't reporting it?
Do I understand you correctly here? You think 90,000 VERIFIED MISSING voters from the actual ballot reporting software used in PA is no big deal because only conspiracy people are talking about it?
I am not assuming Trump won based off this. I am simply reporting the fact that the ballots are higher by 90,000 than the actual voters. This is a fact. A fact that warrants an audit at the very least.
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@Double_R
The vote total listed above represents the ballots cast for the three big candidates; Biden, Trump, and Jorgenson.
Can you provide a source showing this? From what O understand all ballots in SURE, not just the big three, were counted, and among all ballots, there is a shortage of voters to votes.
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@FLRW
If it isn't true, then why hasn't SURE been updated? Shouldn't be difficult to find the voters if they're there. But they aren't there, still, after 3 fucking years.
The fact checkers, once again, were wrong.
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@Greyparrot
The SURE system is PA's election database. It compiles a list of all the votes, and all the voters.
From what I undersrand, they take voter and ballot data directly from counties and compile both numbers separately to create two different voter totals.
Now, the problem lies in the discrepancy of additional ballots cast when there weren't enough voters recorded as casting a ballot.
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From American Thinker:
When the last PA counties finally posted information into the SURE registration system (at the end of January 2021), V.V. determined that there remained a voter deficit of 121,000. Using my audit experience, I extensively tested the V.V. analysis, and I found it to be logical and completely accurate. A voter deficit existed, and the election should not have been certified.
The exact amount is not entirely clear because, magically, 30,000 more voters materialized (without explanation) six months after the election. Yes, the number of voters had grown by the time PA issued its “2020 General Election Report” on May 14, 2021. That is the reason I reported a deficit of just 90,000 in my book, Debunked. Although I suspected that the 30,000 increase in voters was a “plug” entry, I generously assumed that it was some sort of legitimate error correction made by PA. Either way, however, the voter deficit exceeded Biden’s winning margin.
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@Best.Korea
You are guilty for what your nation does
So... North Koreans are guilty of Korea's war crimes and the Ungyr Muslims are responsible for Chinese terrorism abroad?
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@Best.Korea
My crimes? I didn't vote for this shitstorm.
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@Greyparrot
I think we were fucking stupid to not prepare Ukraine for this when we made them a Russian deterrent device.
Russia invading Ukraine is our fault and Europe's. What the fuck do you expect a global superpower to do when you build a large military base the size of a county on their border and arm it with ballistic missiles? Nothing? Get serious here.
The fact we used A FUCKING COUNTRY as a containment device shows whose fault this war really is. It is Europe's and the U.S.
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For the life of me I can't figure out why the whole world gives a shit about a small skirmish in the mideast.
Israel already took over. It took 5 minutes. Can we all just move the fuck on now? The terrorist governmental regime got what they deserved, and, from what I heard, no citizens were harmed in the take-over.
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@Best.Korea
You mean a red herring?Its called Gish Gallop.
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@Best.Korea
Also, I hate China.
Kinda hard to follow the leap there from masturbating in public restrooms to hating China...
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@Sidewalker
Nah. Sounds like he was describing himself.
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@YouFound_Lxam
You're back!!
I was beginning to think you, Austin, and Sir.Lancelot were gone for good.
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@Best.Korea
Why would I masturbate in...
There's some kinky people out there, you closed-minded bigot!
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@Best.Korea
Well, if you masturbate in public bathrooms or showers, I wouldn't say there's NO risk of STDs.
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@Best.Korea
I agree... kind of... it matters why people do things but that shouldn't matter more than WHAT people actually do, the way society currently has it.
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@TheUnderdog
Well... the false equivalency of fucking someone in the ass and removing a piece of flesh that causes a higher chance of contracting an STD and also rotting your penis aside...
Honestly, I think the biggest difference is intent. One is a malicious intent to cause harm. The other is a good intent to bring holiness.
Of course, that is completely arbitrary. I am not dying on that hill, just trying to explain where people may be coming from.
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@Best.Korea
Well... some men suck... But, generally, women do the sucking. 😏
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@IwantRooseveltagain
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@Best.Korea
Welp, come to think of it, Europe was technically ruled by theocratic monarchs for a while. But I'd argue they didn't stick to the program and instead used the church as a business to enrich themselves.
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@Best.Korea
So, in the early church, the system actually worked. They all found various ways to implement those things. One of them was through people selling their belongings when others were in need.
But, consequently, there was ever really only one time in human history where Christians ran the government via theocracy, and that was under Comstantine. But, even so, many question just how committed he was to the cause.
So, to answer your question, a Christian government, much like an anarcho-capitalist society, has never actually been tried (that I know of).
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@Best.Korea
I mean. Christianity actually has a model for government and civil society and a welfare system built right into it.
The problem is that the USA is not a "Christian nation" as in a theocracy but a Christian nation, by self-admittance of its population. But so many people simply "say" they are Christian but, when they go about their day-to-day lives, live a different reality.
The U.S. was certainly founded by Christians (and Deists and Freemasons and Illuminati) but it did not force conversion to Christianity to be a citizen. This is actually a Christian principle, I think, but the thing is, for Christianity to work, people need to act like Christians.
The State is supposed to seek justice for the oppressed, hold the rich accountable when they steal, and be an impartial judge in civil matters. The U.S. is nothing remotely close to this.
The Christian society is supposed to provide housing and jobs to people with no house and no jobs. But at the same time, those people with no house and no job must work, either for the house they are living in directly, or at some other job that pays all the bills and life necessities. In other words, just sitting around collecting government money and being a vagrant are not allowed. Neither is not accepting your friends and neighbors as room and board unless you do not trust them.
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@Stephen
From what I understand, Hinduism is kind of an acceptance of every pagan religion. As they were conquered by and/or traded with so many countries, they came to accept other religions into their pantheon.
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