Contradict?

Author: YouFound_Lxam

Posts

Total: 112
#31
n8nrgim
n8nrgim's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,002
3
2
5
n8nrgim's avatar
n8nrgim
3
2
5
-->
@FLRW
early christians thought jesus would return in their lifetime. the bible seems to indicate that, though it's open to interpreation. i'm not a christian who assumes just because it's in the bible we have to use that as the measure of truth.  i also dont know why that's a relevant question to this debate.
#32
n8nrgim
n8nrgim's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,002
3
2
5
n8nrgim's avatar
n8nrgim
3
2
5
there's not evidence for all the apostles, but there's evidence of the martydom of the closest apostles. like, james, john, and peter. james, jesus brother was put to death and it caused an uproar because he was so beloved by jesus. it's evidence that people dont die for a lie, but even beyond that, their testimony you wouldn't think would be made up if people are up in arms about one of jesus' loved ones dying. you have to read into history to make that leap of logic to assume people got attached to a story teller. 
#33
n8nrgim
n8nrgim's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,002
3
2
5
n8nrgim's avatar
n8nrgim
3
2
5
"The historicity of Jesus is the question of whether or not Jesus, the central figure of Christianity, historically existed (as opposed to being a purely mythical figure). Virtually all scholars of antiquity argue that Jesus existed.[1][note 1] The contrary perspective, that Christ was mythical, is regarded as a fringe theory.[note 2]"

"Some scholars estimate that there are about 30 surviving independent sources written by 25 authors who attest to Jesus.[27] The New Testament represents sources that have become canonical for Christianity, and there are many apocryphal texts that are examples of the wide variety of writings in the first centuries AD that are related to Jesus.[28][need quotation to verify] There are also numerous Jewish and Roman sources (e.g. Josephus, Suetonius, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, and rabbinic tradition[which?]) that talk about Jesus.[29] On the quality of extant sources, Hans-Joachim Schoeps argues that they intertwine history and legend and present the views of the early disciples and the Christian community.[30] According to Christopher M. Tuckett, most available sources are collections of early traditions about Jesus.[31] According to Maurice Casey, some of the sources, such as parts of the Gospel of Mark, are translations of early Aramaic sources which indicate proximity with eyewitness testimony.[32]"

#34
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,428
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@n8nrgim

You know that there wouldn't be any Jesus if people had smartphones 2000 years ago? Because we have them today, you don't see God talking from a burning bush.
Nobody had the name Jesus 2000 years ago.
Topic's author
#35
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
A thousand is a specific number, is it not? It doesn't say "innumerable years," it says THIS NUMBER OF YEARS.
Do.
You.
Know.
What.
A.
Metaphor.
Is. 
Topic's author
#36
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Vegasgiants
Explosions happen all the time.  No God required 
Do explosions create life or destruction? 
Topic's author
#37
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@IlDiavolo
I almost shit my pants laughing at what you just said. 🤣

In all seriousness, stop already thinking that the bible can explain everything in this life. That's ludicrous!!! I acknowledge that the bible is a source of inspiration for millions of people but that's all, it's only a self-help set of books, no more no less. Get over it!!
So, that just shows that you literally didn't account for anything I just proved to you. 

Typical. 
#38
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam


Do Science and Christianity contradict each other? 

The age of the earth.


So, when the Bible says that it took God 6 days to make the universe, for us it could have been perceived as 13.4 billion years. 

6 x 1000 does not amount to 13.4 billion years. The bible doesn't explicitly tell us how old the earth is. Regardless, the bible actually tells us that it was only five days and not six  up until the Adam was said to have been created. The bible also tells us that the earth was created on the first day too. 


Genesis 1 New International Version
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

THEN god rested for a "day" - another thousand years.  THEN decided to created a helper for for the Adam who the Adam called Eve. Genesis 2:18-22

Science tells us for instance that for a diamond to form naturally can take anything up to three and a half billion years. 

2 Peter 3:8-9 NIV states," But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Should 2 Peter 3:8-9 be taken literally?

And which do you accept as being the age of the earth? Billions or just thousands?


#39
Vegasgiants
Vegasgiants's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 1,327
3
3
2
Vegasgiants's avatar
Vegasgiants
3
3
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
I don't know.  But so what?  If you claim God did that show me the evidence.   If you can't show the evidence the claim is WE DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED 
#40
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,175
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
The Bible says in Genisis, that it took God 6 days to create everything. 
But in Revelations, it says that one day for God is like (metaphor) a thousand years for us. 

So, putting two and two together, the metaphor the Bible uses, shows us that time works differently for God. 
This is why I don’t argue with Christians about the Bible, because it’s a moving target. Everything is said to be a metaphor, so it means whatever the reader wants it to mean.

A order of pretty much everything in Genesis conflicts with science, non- metaphorically speaking of course.

#41
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,470
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
As Double_ R said, it's pointless to argue with Christians because everything is possible in their little heads.

But I really don't understand why you get so stubborn trying to convince everyone that the bible doesn't contradict science. Even Jordan Peterson, who I guess you admire because you have his picture in your profile, doesn't dare to regard the bible as a factual book, eventhough he recognizes the importance of Christianity for the western society. Dr. Peterson, as a psychotherapist, focus on the psychological impact of the bible, which is the same impact another self-help book can do on people. And this is his job, help people to overcome their life problems, that's why he's onto Christianity which is not the same to say he's Christian.



#42
Sir.Lancelot
Sir.Lancelot's avatar
Debates: 182
Posts: 807
4
6
9
Sir.Lancelot's avatar
Sir.Lancelot
4
6
9
-->
@Stephen
Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE THAT SHOWS HOW BIBLE-STUPID CHRISTIANS ARE: "The age of the earth."

Look at the foolishness of these bible-inept pseudo-christians! They don't have the sense to feel embarrassed regarding their ignorance, so me and Jesus will continue to make them look silly in these forum threads.
They don't even read their own bible because here it clearly states!:

Ecclesiastes 1:4, “A generation goes and a generation comes, but the earth remains forever.”
Topic's author
#43
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
6 x 1000 does not amount to 13.4 billion years. 
How many times do I have to spell it out for you, and you completely ignore what I say.
It's
A 
Metaphor.

The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
In the beginning: Time
God created the heavens: Space
and the earth: Matter

THEN god rested for a "day" - another thousand years.
Again, not a literal thousand years.
It is a metaphor.

2 Peter 3:8-9 NIV states," But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Should 2 Peter 3:8-9 be taken literally?
No, because the use of the word like means that this verse is being used as a metaphor. 

Topic's author
#44
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Vegasgiants
I don't know.  But so what?  If you claim God did that show me the evidence.   If you can't show the evidence the claim is WE DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED 
You know the answer, but it contradicts what Atheists claim, that simply just an explosion created our complex selves.
Explosions destroy things.

See you found all the ingredients for life but can't find a baker.  

You can dump all the ingredients for a cookie in a bowl, and mix it forever and ever, but without the baker cookies won't be made, let alone humans with minds that even us cannot comprehend. 
#45
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
2 Peter 3:8-9 NIV states," But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Should 2 Peter 3:8-9 be taken literally?
No, because the use of the word like means that this verse is being used as a metaphor. 

So how old is the earth and where have your plucked you figure from if not the bible?

And what is the literal interpretation for Peter's "thousand years"?

Topic's author
#46
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
So how old is the earth and where have your plucked you figure from if not the bible?
From scientific analysis, I believe the universe to be about 13.4 billion years old. 
And I also believe that the bible does not contradict this fact. 
#47
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam

2 Peter 3:8-9 NIV states," But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Should 2 Peter 3:8-9 be taken literally?
No, because the use of the word like means that this verse is being used as a metaphor. 

Ok so  what is the literal interpretation for Peter's metaphoric "thousand years"?


#48
Vegasgiants
Vegasgiants's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 1,327
3
3
2
Vegasgiants's avatar
Vegasgiants
3
3
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
So it was created by god?   Who created god?


You need magic to answer that question 
Topic's author
#49
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
Ok so  what is the literal interpretation for Peter's metaphoric "thousand years"?
The metaphor in this verse is representing the fact that how God perceives time is different than how we perceive time.
We exist in time. God exists outside of time. 
Therefore the 6 days representation God gave us could have been thousands, millions or billions of years in our perception. 
Then if you line it up with scientific fact it is safe to say that the answer of 13.4 billion years old seems factual biblically and scientifically. 
Topic's author
#50
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Vegasgiants
So it was created by god?   Who created god?


You need magic to answer that question 
In the universe we live in something cannot come from nothing. 
But God isn't bound by our laws of physics and rules of reality. He created those laws and rules for us. 

Meaning that God didn't have a creator, because he is the creator. 
God is infinite. It's hard for us to comprehend. But God always was, and forever will be. 


#51
Vegasgiants
Vegasgiants's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 1,327
3
3
2
Vegasgiants's avatar
Vegasgiants
3
3
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Because you say so?   You created a nagical being and thenmake up magical rules about him?

Life is infinite


At least I have evidence of life
#52
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Sir.Lancelot
They don't have the sense to feel embarrassed regarding their ignorance

Yep. Ignorance in its purest sense.
#53
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,595
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Ok so  what is the literal interpretation for Peter's metaphoric "thousand years"?
The metaphor in this verse is representing the fact that how God perceives time is different than how we perceive time.
We exist in time. God exists outside of time. 
Therefore the 6 days representation God gave us could have been thousands, millions or billions of years in our perception. 
Then if you line it up with scientific fact it is safe to say that the answer of 13.4 billion years old seems factual biblically and scientifically. 
Oh I see. god living outside of time. you have used this bs before when on the backfoot.  Well did those illiterate fishermen understand this was what Peter meant when he spoke of a day being a thousand years in gods time.  You really are full of shite. and why didn't peter simply tell these fisherman this instead of using metaphor that seems to have completely threw them?

So you are simply taking shots in the dark making guesses and saying that the bible aligns accurately with science. Whilst also saying on another thread:

" the bible is actually very accurate when it comes to historical happenings ".  

Topic's author
#54
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Vegasgiants
Because you say so?   You created a nagical being and thenmake up magical rules about him?

Life is infinite


At least I have evidence of life

Not because I say so. 
I did not create a magical being.
And I did not create magical rules about him.

The very fact that human life exists is proof for God. 
Our brains are so complex that even the smartest and fastest supercomputer that we built can't keep up with them.

Let me ask you this," What takes more faith to believe in?":
A big explosion came out of nowhere, and eventually created humans who are so complex that structure of our brains is incomprehensible. 
Or
God created the explosion, and created the life that is so complex that no natural force can create alone. 

If you take apart a watch, and you put all the pieces of that watch in a box, and you shake that box forever and ever, you will never get a watch no matter how long you do it for. 

It takes more faith for your idea of how the universe came to be, than it takes for my idea of how the universe came to be. 
Topic's author
#55
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
Your reply to me is just a repetition of how you think I am wrong. No rebuttal to my argument to I have nothing left to rebut. 
#56
Vegasgiants
Vegasgiants's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 1,327
3
3
2
Vegasgiants's avatar
Vegasgiants
3
3
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
 Life has always existed. The singularity always had the building blocks.


Life is infinite


I have evidence of life.  I have evidence of evolution 


You have none of God 
Topic's author
#57
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Vegasgiants
 Life has always existed.
How do you know life has always existed? 
Time had to start at some point. 
We can measure time using space. 
So, we know there was a starting point for time. 

Without time life can't exist, so what evidence do you have of life always have been existing. 

I have evidence of evolution 
Evolution:
Let me ask you this.
A woodpecker has its tongue wrapped around its brain. Can you find any other bird that has any trait similar to that, and any evidence of how that woodpecker evolved to be that way? 

Also

Termites can't digest their own food. So instead, they have super tiny insects inside them that digest the food for them, and in turn get fed. One can't live without the other. So which one evolved first? 

Now short-term evolution makes logical sense. Slowly wolves can evolve into many different types of dogs and such. 
But long-term evolution, like horses to whales don't make sense. Those are purely guesses based on bones that look similar. 

The singularity always had the building blocks.
Great. You have the building blocks. But those blocks had to of been made somewhere. 

You have none of God 
My evidence for God is us, and the universes existence itself. 
#58
Vegasgiants
Vegasgiants's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 1,327
3
3
2
Vegasgiants's avatar
Vegasgiants
3
3
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
I know life exists now.  I know it has never ended.  If someone can show me when it was created then I'll look at that but you can't 

As far as we know life has always existed

Yes there is evidence for how woodpeckers evolved

There is no start.  There is no end


Life is a circle
Topic's author
#59
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Vegasgiants
I know life exists now.
True.

 I know it has never ended.
Expand on this point please. 

If someone can show me when it was created then I'll look at that but you can't 
See my point exactly. How can you assume that life came from nothing, when you don't even know when life was created? 
You also used the word created assuming that there was a creator. 

As far as we know life has always existed
False. 
As far as we know, time started somewhere, and before that life didn't exist, therefore proving as far as we know scientifically life hasn't always existed, meaning there had to be a start to it.

Yes there is evidence for how woodpeckers evolved
Show me. 

There is no start.  There is no end


Life is a circle
What about the termites. 

Also, there is definitely a start. 
#60
b9_ntt
b9_ntt's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 276
0
2
5
b9_ntt's avatar
b9_ntt
0
2
5
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Let me ask you this," What takes more faith to believe in?":
A big explosion came out of nowhere, and eventually created humans who are so complex that structure of our brains is incomprehensible. 
Or
God created the explosion, and created the life that is so complex that no natural force can create alone. 
It takes more faith to believe in the Christian god than in the inflationary universe/big bang theory.
The inflationary/big bang + the laws of physics accounts for everything we can observe and test.
The inflationary/big bang is one mystery.

Christians, however, must account for many more mysteries: the nature of God, the supernatural world and their inhabitants, the afterlife, resurrection, the Trinity, souls, transubstantiation, and many more. "God did it" is not an explanation. It tells us nothing that "Elves did it" couldn't explain. Economy of explanation is preferable to one that requires many more explanations (see William of Ockham).