Contradict?

Author: YouFound_Lxam

Posts

Total: 112
#91
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
This story is literal. 
See, in elementary school, you learn how to tell if something is written as a metaphor.
Do you see anything in this story that points to it being a metaphor?

So in this non-metaphorical story, are you saying that the talking donkey was the only and last one of its kind? The donkey LITERALLY spoke, in hebrew I guess?
#92
Vegasgiants
Vegasgiants's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 1,327
3
3
2
Vegasgiants's avatar
Vegasgiants
3
3
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Another claim.lacking evidence 

Dismissed 
Topic's author
#93
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
So in this non-metaphorical story, are you saying that the talking donkey was the only and last one of its kind? The donkey LITERALLY spoke, in hebrew I guess?
The donkey talked, through the power of God.
Donkeys can't talk, by just simply natures power.

God talked through the donkey. 
#94
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
So  then it's NOT literal? 

Here's the passage again. 

And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.”
Please point out where you're getting that god is speaking through the donkey. 

This is why talking about biblical contradictions is a pointless waste of time. Christians just say "well magic is why that doesn't contradict science." You're in over your head from the start. 
#95
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,603
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8

Carl Sagan was a big influence for me and he never outright degrades religion, he simply said they should evaluate their beliefs honestly, and in doing so, they would come to the most rational view of reality. 
#96
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Then the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, “What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?” 29 And Balaam said to the donkey, “Because you have made a fool of me. I wish I had a sword in my hand, for then I would kill you.” 30 And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.”
This story is literal. 

Nice.

Do Science and Christianity contradict each other? 
I don't think they do, but I am open to discussion.


Now can you explain how science supports this biblical story of the talking donkey?


God talked through the donkey. 

Nope.
Topic's author
#97
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
So  then it's NOT literal? 

Here's the passage again. 

And the donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your donkey, on which you have ridden all your life long to this day? Is it my habit to treat you this way?” And he said, “No.”
Please point out where you're getting that god is speaking through the donkey. 

This is why talking about biblical contradictions is a pointless waste of time. Christians just say "well magic is why that doesn't contradict science." You're in over your head from the start. 

I literally just told you.

The story is about how God used a Donkey to talk to Balaam. 
The donkey did talk, but not by his own choice. God used the donkey. 
#98
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,071
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Why talk through a donkey.

I thought that GODDO was supposed to be Mr Sensible.

Was he having a bit of a fun Shrek moment.

Is he green?

Does he photosynthesise?

Maybe.
#99
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
I literally just told you.

The story is about how God used a Donkey to talk to Balaam. 
The donkey did talk, but not by his own choice. God used the donkey. 
Yeah, I think you're using this word incorrectly. If the story is LITERAL, then somewhere in there, it should say "And for some odd reason, rather than communicate directly to Balaam, God spoke through the donkey." It doesn't say that, and therefore is not "literal." Literal means the words on the page. 

Why are you bothering with this, anyway? You're not really interested in a good faith discussion, because like all Christians on this topic, you simply hand wave everything as "well, that part's a metaphor, duh" and "god used his powers even though the book doesn't say that." I guess my question is what's the point for you? You've yet to address anything that actually contradicts science in any real way. How, for example, does light come before stars? How did Noah live to be 900 years old? How did he gather two (or more) of each specific species of land dwelling living thing on earth and somehow fit LITERALLY (that's how you use this word) 15+ million creatures on a boat he built for forty days? 

THe answer's all the same for you: used his science contradicting powers. Are you like trying to "own the atheists" or whatever? I don't get it. 
Topic's author
#100
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@ludofl3x
Yeah, I think you're using this word incorrectly. If the story is LITERAL, then somewhere in there, it should say "And for some odd reason, rather than communicate directly to Balaam, God spoke through the donkey." It doesn't say that, and therefore is not "literal." Literal means the words on the page. 
21 Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey, and went with the officials of Moab. 22 But God’s anger burned because Balaam was going with them.
So the Angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him.
23 The donkey saw the Angel of the LORD standing in the road, with his drawn sword in his hand. So the donkey turned off the road and went into the field. Balaam struck the donkey to make it turn back to the road. 24 Then the Angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path between the vineyards with walls on both sides. 25 The donkey saw the Angel of the LORD and pressed against the wall and squeezed Balaam’s foot against the wall. Balaam struck the donkey again.
26 Then the Angel of the LORD went ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn to the right or to the left. 27 The donkey saw the Angel of the LORD and lay down under Balaam. Balaam’s anger burned, and he struck the donkey with his staff.
28 The LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, which said to Balaam, “What have I done to you that you have struck me these three times?”

If the Devil can make a serpent speak, then why can't God do the same with another animal?
Again, God can do supernatural things. Things against the laws of science, because he is the law of science. 

Why are you bothering with this, anyway? You're not really interested in a good faith discussion, because like all Christians on this topic, you simply hand wave everything as "well, that part's a metaphor, duh" and "god used his powers even though the book doesn't say that." I guess my question is what's the point for you? You've yet to address anything that actually contradicts science in any real way. How, for example, does light come before stars? How did Noah live to be 900 years old? How did he gather two (or more) of each specific species of land dwelling living thing on earth and somehow fit LITERALLY (that's how you use this word) 15+ million creatures on a boat he built for forty days? 
 Well, usually I answer in a faith-based conclusion, however if you would like me to answer in a more apologetic way, then I could try to do that. 
If you have any specific questions, I would be happy to try and answer them one at a time in different forums. 


#101
ludofl3x
ludofl3x's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,071
3
2
2
ludofl3x's avatar
ludofl3x
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Again, God can do supernatural things. Things against the laws of science, because he is the law of science. 
This is the sum and substance of your entire argument here. Essentially every contradiction of science will be answered with some version of "God is science so anything he does in the book is now scientifically sound." There's no reason to continue discussing it, it's boring. And I'm not starting fifty topics on each stupid and obvious contradiction in the bible, I'm sure you can get someone else to do that. I already asked:

How, for example, does light come before stars? How did Noah live to be 900 years old? How did he gather two (or more) of each specific species of land dwelling living thing on earth and somehow fit LITERALLY (that's how you use this word) 15+ million creatures on a boat he built for forty days? 
Feel free to take on any of these scientifically. 

Also, your passage LITERALLY does not say god spoke through the donkey. It LITERALLY says that god opened his mouth and the donkey spoke his own donkey thoughts (That's what "which" is doing in that sentence, and not "Who"). 
#102
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Do you want me to go through every single verse in the Bible? 
No, but I would like you to answer any of my questions. You're being coy about how you interpret the Bible. From my perspective, you started the conversation and now you're avoiding it. I'm not here to force you to share you're beliefs. You either want to or you don't. It makes no difference to me. I've attached my questions below. Feel free to address any or all of them at your discretion. 

how do you understand the Bible? Did the creation stories in Genesis happen thousands of years ago? Did Jacob's flock get their spots by way of colorful wood? Did the Earth really stop spinning? Can donkeys and snakes talk? Was the flood global? What is the smallest seed?
Topic's author
#103
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@SkepticalOne
how do you understand the Bible?
I understand the Bible as a story. 
A story of the creation of Man.
A story about Gods loves for man.
A story about Jesus's linage, and his sacrifice for us.
A story about the people influenced by his scarifies, then sacrificing their own lives for that truth. 

I also understand it as a book of wisdom. A book that provides us with all the answers to our everyday lives and issues and teachings of morality. 

Did the creation stories in Genesis happen thousands of years ago?
I couldn't know for sure, because I wasn't there. 
But I can be pretty sure based on my belief in science, and the word of God, that the creation stories did not happen thousands of years ago but happened over the course of some billions of years old. 

But I do believe that it has been about 6000 years from the time of Adam and Eve up until now given the lineage of fathers and sons described in Genesis. 

Did Jacob's flock get their spots by way of colorful wood?
The bible proclaims it to be true, therefore I believe it to be true.
Now as for how this would work biologically, I do not know, because I am not an expert in biology. 
But if this story is physically impossible, scientifically, I believe that God is the cause of it happening, since he can defy the laws of science. 

 Did the Earth really stop spinning?
I'm going to need some elaboration for this question. 

Can donkeys and snakes talk?
If God allows them to, then yes. Otherwise, no. 

Was the flood global?
Yes. 

What is the smallest seed?
Mustard seed. 
#104
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
But I do believe that it has been about 6000 years from the time of Adam and Eve up until now given the lineage of fathers and sons described in Genesis. 

Show us the maths behind your reckoning.
#105
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
If the Devil can make a serpent speak, then why can't God do the same with another animal?

🙄
You have to be among the top two thickest Christians on this religion forum..
You have never studied these scriptures in any great detail for yourself have you? Or any basic theological ancient history, either.

The "serpent" of the Garden was a wise lord of medicine. You will find the "clues" here:
Numbers 21.  Matthew 10.


And if you would like a more modern-day clue, just look no further than here>

This emblem ( sign) for medicine/ the medical profession has been handed down and used over thousands of years to this day and since before it was used by the Hebrews the Egyptians the Greeks and the Romans .


You claim to be a citizen of the USA?  Well let me tell you something, thicky : this "sign of the serpent" wrapped around the staff /tree of life has been staring you in the fkn face since the day you were born, you are just too dumb and blind to see it for what it is never mind make the connection to the ancients.

Now that is what I would call connecting  modern science to ancient scripture!
Topic's author
#106
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
You have to be among the top two thickest Christians on this religion forum..
You have never studied these scriptures in any great detail for yourself have you? Or any basic theological ancient history, either.

The "serpent" of the Garden was a wise lord of medicine. You will find the "clues" here:
Numbers 21.  Matthew 10.
Ok........what?

I'm sorry, but how did you go from the serpent in the Garden, to the symbol of medicine. 

The symbol for medicine (the serpent wrapped around the staff)  actually comes from a completely different Bible story.

So, do you even know what you are talking about?
#107
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
You have to be among the top two thickest Christians on this religion forum..
You have never studied these scriptures in any great detail for yourself have you? Or any basic theological ancient history, either.

The "serpent" of the Garden was a wise lord of medicine. You will find the "clues" here:
Numbers 21.  Matthew 10.


I'm sorry, but how did you go from the serpent in the Garden, to the symbol of medicine. 
I have given you what you often refer to as "the clues".
And you cannot fathom the connection because you are a bible thicko that believes he knows the bible and how it should be interpreted..  Read those "clues" and learn about them. I have already given you your starting point on this particular matter but here they are again>> Numbers 21.  Matthew 10.


The symbol for medicine (the serpent wrapped around the staff)  actually comes from a completely different Bible story.

And it is the emblem of medicine and healing, you clown. And has been since before the BIBLE was even thought of. As I have just mentioned above HERE>>>#105

 Odd don't you think that of all the emblems that your god could have chose as the emblem of medicine and healing I.E. a physician i.e. something good, that it would be a serpent? The enemy of god and all of his creation? The very same creature that god had condemned to crawl on his belly eating dust for the "rest of his days" as punishment for causing the "fall of ALL mankind"... by all accounts!!!!? 

And the very creature that Jesus himself accredited with "wisdom"? 

If you are going to keep coming back trying to score gotcha moments with atheists with new biblical topics, then you really must study more, thicko.
Better still, first learn HOW to study.




Topic's author
#108
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
Read the bible dude. 
Topic's author
#109
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@Stephen
Read the bible dude. 
#110
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Read the bible dude. 

I have read the bible you clown. What is more, I have studied it too, which is more than what can be said for you..

Cook, the long dead  book publisher and  leader of the Sunday School movement that also provided the poor information in your link, doesn't answer the question/s that I have posed you.

Would you like another stab instead of ignoring it:


 Odd don't you think that of all the emblems that your god could have chose as the emblem of medicine and healing I.E. a physician i.e. something good, that it would be a serpent? The enemy of god and all of his creation? The very same creature that god had condemned to crawl on his belly eating dust for the "rest of his days" as punishment for causing the "fall of ALL mankind"... by all accounts!!!!? 

And the very creature that Jesus himself accredited with "wisdom"? 

Just think about it  for a second ,you clown!


An aside:   while you're at it, check out the multi million $$$ company that the entrepreneur Cook's  company  become..... I wonder,  will  the inheritors  and benefactors of Cooks  entrepreneurial skills and wisdom ever get to heaven.

#111
SkepticalOne
SkepticalOne's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 1,720
3
3
7
SkepticalOne's avatar
SkepticalOne
3
3
7
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Thank you for sharing your understanding of Christianity.  Your version of Christianity does contradict science.  I mean, take your last answer, the mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds.  Clearly, you believe something that is in conflict with not just science but reality itself:


12 days later

#112
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
No, they don't but scientists who don't believe in God contradict a lot of what the Bible says and theologians - some of them contradict a lot of what scientists say. 

Science if it is based on true premises, would never contradict the Bible.