Would extraterrestrial life discovery sway or even cramble christianity?

Author: IlDiavolo
Christianity
UFO
extraterrestrial life
nasa

Posts

Total: 45
Topic's author
#1
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
I've been watching a meeting about UFOs held by the NASA a while back and it certainly made me meditate on the implications of the extraterrestrial life confirmation for religions in the near future, specially for christianity which is the dominant religion in the western society.

The NASA didn't confirmed anything yet but they promised to investigate more so to give a convincing explanation for that phenomenon, even though we all know that alien life is almost a reality from every point of view. As a matter of fact, the Vatican has already been ahead of the curve in discussing about the subject, maybe knowing that it would have deep implications on the number of  church $$$ memberships $$$.

As to the way this discovery would impact on christianity, it's well known that there are lot of biblical passages that suggest the participation of extraterrestrial beings in the jewish history in which they are confused with angels and even with God. For example, according to the bible the prophet Elijah was taken to heaven by a "chariot of fire", but who knows if this wasn't a chariot but an alien aircraft or UFO as we know it today and Elijah was in fact abducted?

So, most of the nonsensical stories in the bible could be explained by the intervention of an alien civilization in the fate of the earth. It's also said that aliens are actually more evolved human beings that did put the human seed in this planet and once in a while they come over to see how we're getting on. Being said that, there is no need of religions.

What do you think? Is Christianity in danger?
#2
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@IlDiavolo
Ezekiel 1:4-28  is about an encounter with a UFO that had 4 extraterestrials in it.
#3
Savant
Savant's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 1,999
3
7
6
Savant's avatar
Savant
3
7
6
-->
@IlDiavolo
Pope Francis said he would baptize aliens. I suspect we're due for another crusade anyway.
#4
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
Of course, any really intelligent extra-terrestrial species would study Earth first and then program a plausible simulacrum of Revelations and mask the attacks as Judgement Day.  The Christian third of the world would very likely voluntarily submit military and civilian power to a very believable alien Christ simulacrum.
#5
Savant
Savant's avatar
Debates: 23
Posts: 1,999
3
7
6
Savant's avatar
Savant
3
7
6
-->
@oromagi
Would a species that intelligent need to use trickery rather than force?
#6
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@IlDiavolo
The Bible doesn't have any recordings of alien or extraterrestrial stories. 

It does have stories of angels and demons and God and humans. These are heavenly beings. Heaven is a place on Earth. Not off the planet. 

There won't be any aliens found or discovered.  And until there is,  it is pure fabrication being made up. 

Hence - it won't have any impact on Christianity, since it won't happen.  

But hey if one does turn up, then I will be happy to change my mind. Waiting - waiting waiting. 


#7
oromagi
oromagi's avatar
Debates: 117
Posts: 8,696
8
10
11
oromagi's avatar
oromagi
8
10
11
-->
@Savant
depends on the species.  Sometimes deception is more fatal and efficient than force.
#8
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@IlDiavolo
What is "cramble"?

Though if ET got here first we would have to cede to it's intellectual authority.

And if it said that religion was a load of baloney we would have to agree.

Hey, but Universal Laws being what they are, ET would probably have it's own GOD, which would probably involve having to do all sorts of bizarre ritual sh*t.

Like whistling songs through it's arse.

That's assuming that arses are also a Universal Law of Organic Biology



#9
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@IlDiavolo
 Elijah was taken to heaven by a "chariot of fire",

 Indeed. There are many refences in the BIBLE to beings coming and going on "clouds" and craft (chariots) that they couldn't explain for lack of understanding  .

A bit like this I should imagine:

1:30


Topic's author
#10
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@zedvictor4
What is "cramble"?
*Crumble.

Hope the moderator correct this error because I can't. 😆
Topic's author
#11
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Tradesecret
We don't need indisputable evidence like an alien footage or a face-to-face interview with those beings to confirm alien life, it's just a matter of comparing testimonies and findings from ancient civilizations, and all of them point to the existence of human-like beings that come from the sky which is nothing more than an alien civilization.

And I understand your worry and fear. I know that these findings could trigger a collective panic among believers and even worst an existencial crisis. So, we should be prepared because the UFO phenomenon are more common than ever and that could only mean that these aliens are planning to show up sooner or later. Even Pancho (the pope) is suggesting the existence of aliens, so I don't know why you refuse to accept the unavoidable.
#12
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,625
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Well, if God created aliens, we will probably meet them one day. I dont see how that disproves Christianity. 

Where in the Bible does it say that aliens dont exist?
#13
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,625
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
More importantly, one should not commit "false or" and assume that angels and aliens cannot look the same or similar.
#14
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@Tradesecret
The Bible doesn't have any recordings of alien or extraterrestrial stories. 

It does have stories of angels and demons and God and humans. These are heavenly beings. Heaven is a place on Earth. Not off the planet. 

There won't be any aliens found or discovered.  And until there is,  it is pure fabrication being made up. 

Hence - it won't have any impact on Christianity, since it won't happen.  

But hey if one does turn up, then I will be happy to change my mind. Waiting - waiting waiting. 
It sounds like you are saying that if one did show up, it would have an impact on Christianity, in what way, and why?
#15
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@oromagi
Of course, any really intelligent extra-terrestrial species would study Earth first and then program a plausible simulacrum of Revelations and mask the attacks as Judgement Day.  The Christian third of the world would very likely voluntarily submit military and civilian power to a very believable alien Christ simulacrum.
I don't see any reason to assume they would be hostile. any species sufficiently advanced to travel here from outside the solar system would necessarily have over come the human tendency to destruction with advancing technology, if the got as far as interstellar traveI, they have to be more curious than violent,  think it's safe to assume they would be peaceful explorers.
#16
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,594
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@IlDiavolo

I'd say it would cramble Christianity.
#17
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,625
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Sidewalker
 it's safe to assume they would be peaceful explorers
Lets hope so.

Any aliens invading Earth would likely have technology far beyond ours. So we would likely lose any war against aliens.
Topic's author
#18
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@Sidewalker
Ezekiel 1:4-28 is about an encounter with a UFO that had 4 extraterestrials in iit.
Also Sodom and Gomorrah, the cities supposedly destroyed by God, where two angels got Lot and his daughters out of it. It's clear to me that they were not angels but two aliens executing the plan of reseting the human being experiment.

I don't know what these aliens are waiting for to destroy the US, Europe and their woke culture. 😆
Topic's author
#19
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@zedvictor4
Hey, but Universal Laws being what they are, ET would probably have it's own GOD, which would probably involve having to do all sorts of bizarre ritual sh*t.
I really doubt it. I think aliens are far more evolved than us, they don't need this sh!t. 😆

#20
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@IlDiavolo
We don't need indisputable evidence like an alien footage or a face-to-face interview with those beings to confirm alien life, it's just a matter of comparing testimonies and findings from ancient civilizations, and all of them point to the existence of human-like beings that come from the sky which is nothing more than an alien civilization.
Are you really telling me that we don't need indisputable evidence? that's a joke right.  Why would such intelligent life refuse to be known to the earth? That's the key, isn't it? You might not need such information, but I would be happy on the basis of just reasonable proof.   Besides - using your theory, God must exist. Just compare all the different testimonies from ancient civilisations. And all of the point to God. And the same applies to creation,. All those creation stories. And gee even Noah's floods Lots of comparable stories.  


And I understand your worry and fear. I know that these findings could trigger a collective panic among believers and even worst an existencial crisis. So, we should be prepared because the UFO phenomenon are more common than ever and that could only mean that these aliens are planning to show up sooner or later. Even Pancho (the pope) is suggesting the existence of aliens, so I don't know why you refuse to accept the unavoidable
Obviously, you missed my sarcasm, I'm not in the slightest worried.  Hmm the inevitable. The unavoidable.  Wow, let's just wait and not count before the chickens start hatching.  
#21
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@IlDiavolo
For sure.

Any living being that has mastered inter-stellar space travel is far superior to us.

I'm guessing that there's a strong chance that ET is more likely to be A.I. and long since decided that creation wasn't the work of magical creatures.


#22
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Sidewalker
The Bible doesn't have any recordings of alien or extraterrestrial stories. 

It does have stories of angels and demons and God and humans. These are heavenly beings. Heaven is a place on Earth. Not off the planet. 

There won't be any aliens found or discovered.  And until there is,  it is pure fabrication being made up. 

Hence - it won't have any impact on Christianity, since it won't happen.  

But hey if one does turn up, then I will be happy to change my mind. Waiting - waiting waiting. 
It sounds like you are saying that if one did show up, it would have an impact on Christianity, in what way, and why?
Aliens don't exist.  There is no need for Aliens presently.   So far, there has been no credible evidence presented. Merely speculations and wild theories. All of which are very entertaining.  

This is consistent with Christianity and the Bible.  

If aliens did turn up it would throw doubt on the Bible, in my view.  It wouldn't throw doubt on the existence of God. It would force religious people to reexamine their views in relation to lots of things. Particularly the meaning of life and remedies to evil. The ironic thing however is that even if ALIENS did not turn up for the next 1000 years,  it wouldn't throw doubt on those who want to believe in aliens. And indeed, even when we as humans explore the universe and discover that we are unique in the universe, the only form of intelligent life ANYWHERE, this still wouldn't be enough to convince anyone that God is real. Some people will believe in aliens until God shows them otherwise. Others will not believe in God until they die. And then it will be too late. 

The entire view of aliens is actually built on the idea of evolution.   If life could evolve here, it must evolve elsewhere.  Yet, the absence of aliens is one of the pieces of evidence that proves evolution is false. 
#23
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@IlDiavolo
So, most of the nonsensical stories in the bible could be explained by the intervention of an alien civilization in the fate of the earth.


 There are quite a few biblical stories that when we superimpose todays science over them would certainly make these stories plausible.

An example would be the "creation" of Eve. The biblical story of Eve's creation could easily be likened to cloning.



It's also said that aliens are actually more evolved human beings that did put the human seed in this planet and once in a while they come over to see how we're getting on.
  I suppose this could be likened to the biblical "breath of life"


Being said that, there is no need of religions.

When we read the biblical and even much earlier  Sumerian accounts we can read clearly that there was no such thing as religion. These "beings" were simply called "Lords" and priests were raised above the general population to serve only them in simply daily tasks and to serve in their homes/temples,  just as the bible says.
 The Lords taught these chosen to read and write "spelling" and how to count-arithmetic and became learned "men of old". 
 Jewish Historian Josephus writes of  characters such as those of the bloodline of Adam, Enoch and Seth and other of their offspring being highly educated knowing all about the solar system and the movements of the planets, including the some times devastating effects that these "heavenly bodies" have on the earth. - i.e. the were taught "the mysteries of the heavens" which today we simply call space. Josephus refers to it as a "peculiar science".

What do you think? Is Christianity in danger?


Yes.
Christianity has always been in danger of being exposed for the fraud it it is , and more so today. 

#24
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Tradesecret
Does other life exist elsewhere?

Maybe, maybe not.


Is Christianity necessary?

It is for some.


Tradey.

Are you aware of  just how vast the universe is?

 We haven't even got past the Moon yet.

Give ET a chance.

And this proves the Christian God and disproves evolution.

Sound theory for sure.......LOL.


What was it you just stated?

"Merely speculation and wild theory".....That was it.

Just a bit like a MANGOD who fucks virgins.

And then 33 years later nails his son to a post for our sins.

Sound f**king theory Trade.

Sound.
Topic's author
#25
IlDiavolo
IlDiavolo's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,509
3
2
5
IlDiavolo's avatar
IlDiavolo
3
2
5
-->
@FLRW
I'd say it would cramble Christianity.
Is it an americanism? I didn't find it in the dictionary. 🤔

#26
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,594
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@IlDiavolo


      Sorry, I meant scramble.
#27
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,436
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@zedvictor4
Does other life exist elsewhere?

Maybe, maybe not.
We are talking about intelligent life. And the answer is NO. There is no intelligent life out there. Not the tiniest amount of evidence. Just wild speculation built upon the false premise of evolution. 

Is Christianity necessary?

It is for some.
Well I suppose that depends upon what it is necessary for.  Is it necessary to be a Christian to win the football final? Nah.  Is it necessary to be a Christian to be a brain surgeon? Nuh.  Is it necessary to be a Christian to go to heaven? Yep.  

Are you aware of  just how vast the universe is?

 We haven't even got past the Moon yet.

Give ET a chance.
If that is an argument, then perhaps you might give God a chance too.  But you won't.  After all, if we as humans know perhaps as little as .00001 % of a 1% of all possible knowledge, then anything might be possible.  Do you see how Ironic it is that you want me to give ET a chance but you won't give God a chance?  

And this proves the Christian God and disproves evolution.

Sound theory for sure.......LOL.
If you had read what I said, I ACTUALLY indicated it wouldn't prove God for many people. Atheists aren't looking for evidence for God. They're looking for excuses to do whatever they want to do. Without the guilt. 


What was it you just stated?

"Merely speculation and wild theory".....That was it.
ABSOLUTELY.  And let me repeat it. Mere speculation and wild theory. 

Just a bit like a MANGOD who fucks virgins.

And then 33 years later nails his son to a post for our sins.

Sound f**king theory Trade.
You do realise that whenever you throw out such a pathetic strawman argument that any credibility you might have had goes out with your straw. 

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God raped anyone, let alone a virgin.  Nowhere.  Throwing that out there is nothing short of stupid and beneath you. The Bible doesn't teach that. It wouldn't condone that. It simply is nonsense and if you want me to keep responding to you, at least stop with the stupidity and saying things that are patently not true. 

I assume you are attempting to categorise Mary's pregnancy as rape by God.  But on what basis? That she got pregnant without consent.  For it to be rape would involve a penis. OR a finger. Or something that penetrated her vagina.  That is RAPE by everyone's definition.  This didn't happen. There is no record of it happening in the Bible. 

All we have is a virgin, getting pregnant. And even that description "virgin" defies your "rape" allegation.   For she remained a virgin EVEN after getting pregnant according to the Bible. 

We are told that the Holy Spirit,  a being without any physical characteristics of fingers, penis etc. was the Father of the child.  Now for me, it is not relevant whether you believe this or not. What is relevant is getting the story correct as it is told to us.  And there is nothing here at all about rape or SEXUAL INTERCOURSE. 

It is actually very similar in the picture as to the story of Adam in the Garden of Eden.  God breathed into him and he became a living soul.  In Mary's time, God's Spirit - which incidentally is the Hebrew Word for breath was present. And Mary became pregnant. Adam was the first Adam and Jesus the final Adam.  

And her reaction to what happened, shock at first, turned into a wonderful blessing.  Very different to people who really do get raped.  Rape victims don't sing beautiful songs saying how wonderful they were raped.  

I don't particularly care that don't believe in God and think the whole bible is a crock and not worth reading. What I do care is that you don't distort it in order to try and win points.  And saying that God raped Mary is a distortion and NOT in the bible.  It just makes you pathetic. No offence. but as soon as I read the distortions, I realise you don't actually care about the truth of what it says. 



#28
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,067
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Tradesecret
Truth becomes Strawman.

Easy way of ignoring truth.

The reality of of a pregnant teenager is either consensual sex or rape.

Holy spirits are just mythological fluff.

And you would prefer to believe mythological fluff, rather than accept the harsh reality of the human condition.

Ignorance is bliss I suppose.


And funny how there is no intelligent life out there....Just wild speculation and no evidence.

That's more than a bit like comparing the bible with any ET based sci-fi novel.

All speculative stuff made up by speculative people.


So I will concede that there is currently no more chance of meeting ET than there is of meeting a Christian GOD.

Though this doesn't negate the fact that there is more chance of ET, than there is of an actual Christian GOD.

Spatial probability rather than 2000 year old Middle Eastern Mythology.

And for every intelligent life form that might exist out there, there will more than likely be an associated GOD myth.

Which certainly won't be a MANGOD from Bethlehem.


#29
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@Tradesecret
The Bible doesn't have any recordings of alien or extraterrestrial stories. 

It does have stories of angels and demons and God and humans. These are heavenly beings. Heaven is a place on Earth. Not off the planet. 

There won't be any aliens found or discovered.  And until there is,  it is pure fabrication being made up. 

Hence - it won't have any impact on Christianity, since it won't happen.  

But hey if one does turn up, then I will be happy to change my mind. Waiting - waiting waiting. 
It sounds like you are saying that if one did show up, it would have an impact on Christianity, in what way, and why?
Aliens don't exist.  There is no need for Aliens presently.   So far, there has been no credible evidence presented. Merely speculations and wild theories. All of which are very entertaining.  
This is also "mere speculation" based on "no credible evidence.

This is consistent with Christianity and the Bible.  
You are just restating your belief that aliens don't exist, the question was in what way would it impact Christianity and why.

If aliens did turn up it would throw doubt on the Bible, in my view.  
WHY would it throw doubt on the Bible, can you reference where the Bible indicates aliens don't exist?

It wouldn't throw doubt on the existence of God. It would force religious people to reexamine their views in relation to lots of things. Particularly the meaning of life and remedies to evil.
Why would it be a challenge to the "meaning of life and remedies to evil", I'm not aware that either of these involves the existence of aliens in any way.

The ironic thing however is that even if ALIENS did not turn up for the next 1000 years,  it wouldn't throw doubt on those who want to believe in aliens. And indeed, even when we as humans explore the universe and discover that we are unique in the universe, the only form of intelligent life ANYWHERE, this still wouldn't be enough to convince anyone that God is real. Some people will believe in aliens until God shows them otherwise. Others will not believe in God until they die. And then it will be too late. 
Still mere speculation, you are simply imagining the behavior of those who believe aliens exist, and it appears you think that belief in the existence of aliens is an atheist belief, how is that?

The entire view of aliens is actually built on the idea of evolution.   If life could evolve here, it must evolve elsewhere.  Yet, the absence of aliens is one of the pieces of evidence that proves evolution is false. 
Why couldn't you say the same thing about creation, if God could create life here, he could create it elsewhere.

I don;t understand adverserial Christianity, that just randomly picks ideas that are supposedly opposed to Christianity, I don't see how or why it has become a combat religion for many.  You appear to be speaking for Christianity, and you don't, the two billion Christians are a diverse group that has basic Christian principles in common, you can't just arbitrarily add and delete principles to what constitutes Christian faith.

You also seem to be asserting what God can and cannot do, "but the wordof God is not bound" ( 2Timothy 2:9).

Isaiah 55:8-9
For mythoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declaresthe LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higherthan your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”
#30
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,920
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@IlDiavolo
....it certainly made me meditate on the implications of the extraterrestrial life confirmation for religions in the near future,....
No danger to  Chritianity since it stems from humans, ergo, just a the poor are always with us, so is fundamental religious indiocy

..."Jellyfish use calcium sulfate crystals located at the base of their mushroom-shaped bodies to distinguish up from down. These crystals are held in small pockets lined with hair cells that, when the jellyfish moves, roll around and stimulate the hair cells to signal the brain which direction is up. Although the pockets appeared to develop normally in space, the astro-jellies had difficulty navigating in regular gravity upon returning to Earth, exhibiting irregular pulsing and movement compared to their non-astronaut counterparts.

....Humans, like jellyfish, rely on calcium crystals, known as otoliths, located in the inner ear to perceive gravity and acceleration. Otoliths also move hair cells, which signal to the brain which way gravity is pulling. If jellyfish struggle to develop their gravity senses in space, it's likely that human astronauts may experience significant vertigo as well."...

Even if the intelligent aliens remove the crystals from Christians, at worse they will be likened to drunken idiot Christians that have trouble standing vertical