Would extraterrestrial life discovery sway or even cramble christianity?

Author: IlDiavolo
Christianity
UFO
extraterrestrial life
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#31
DavidAZ
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@IlDiavolo
@Tradesecret
Here are my two cents.

There is no such thing as intelligent life (aliens) outside Earth.  There is no proof.  Only hear-say and odd happenings.

Now, there has obviously been something happening.  Abductions, devices planted, UFO sightings, etc, but this does not mean that these happenings have been done by an extra-terrestrial race.  Which one of these happenings could NOT be done by our own human race?  We abduct, we plant devices and we create new war machines all the time.

Our advances on science have been extraordinary and the idea of anti-gravity has been researched since the 1960's.  We have heard the saying that our flip phones today have more technology in it than the moon lander from 1969.  How hard would it be to think that the "flying saucer" is not just another piece of technology from the Pentagon or Kremlin or China or whatever?

The idea of abductions can be easily explained when you do some research into the field of mind control.  Our brains work with electrical impulses through neurons.  How hard would it be for a government agency to send the correct electrical current to the portion of the brain that controls a person's perception to make them think they are being abducted?  They have experiments done to them and the probing is just the disgusting way they enjoy ending their mission.  The devices planted have been known to track and hear what the person is saying and in some cases, know their thoughts.

As for visitations, it wouldn't be hard to dress up the part OR it is possible people do have visitations from demons or angels.

So all in all, aliens are a government sham.  They are feeding junk to the public and raking in billions of dollars for "research" like the SETI program, which has stated that they still have not found anything regarding alien life. 

Ildiavolo, to answer your question, would it affect Christianity if aliens were found to be true?  Doubt it.  The religion is not based on that there is not alien life but rather that there is a God who died for us.  And if aliens do exist, God created them too (animals) and gave us (humans) dominion over them also.  The idea of alien life is very fun to think about and super fun to hear stories of abductions and visitations and UFO sightings, but in the whole scheme of things, it doesn't erase God out of the picture.
#32
ADreamOfLiberty
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@DavidAZ
How hard would it be for a government agency to send the correct electrical current to the portion of the brain that controls a person's perception to make them think they are being abducted?  They have experiments done to them and the probing is just the disgusting way they enjoy ending their mission.
Alien abduction stories = homosexual government rapists who apparently can't find volunteers for their experiments and would rather induce a specific hallucination than simply sedate their victim

So many interesting hypotheses...


They are feeding junk to the public and raking in billions of dollars for "research" like the SETI program, which has stated that they still have not found anything regarding alien life.
I don't think SETI is that expensive... It's not like they build any radio telescopes just for it.

#33
DavidAZ
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Alien abduction stories = homosexual government rapists who apparently can't find volunteers for their experiments and would rather induce a specific hallucination than simply sedate their victim

So many interesting hypotheses...
LOL!  Just as plausible as the rest.

The intent from the abductors is unknown but for sure it's all human driven.  It has been done before during WW2 in concentration camps, the experiments that is. . .  Probably the rape to.

I don't think SETI is that expensive... It's not like they build any radio telescopes just for it.
I suppose not compared to other programs, but 100 million is real money for useless causes.  Oh well, maybe the builders of the radar dishes make some money from it.
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#34
IlDiavolo
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The idea of alien life is very fun to think about and super fun to hear stories of abductions and visitations and UFO sightings, but in the whole scheme of things, it doesn't erase God out of the picture.
I would die to see that, specially when these aliens show their skills to cure and make miracles, they're going to be the new God for the ignorant masses.

Maybe that's the reason why they don't show up yet, humans are not ready for that revelation.

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#35
IlDiavolo
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@DavidAZ
The message up here is a response to you, by the way.
#36
DavidAZ
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@IlDiavolo
I would die to see that, . . .
Hmmm. . . Maybe it would take a meeting with your Maker for you to know the truth. (joke!)

. . .specially when these aliens show their skills to cure and make miracles, they're going to be the new God for the ignorant masses.
It is an interesting concept to think that maybe religions around the world have been just worshipping some short big-eyed grey alien all along, named Bob, who really was just the janitor of this solar system who decided to "spread his seed" all other the planet when no one was looking.  Again, fun to think about.
#37
Stephen
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@IlDiavolo
The problem that we higher educated, being more intelligent, more advance than those of ancient peoples have, is that we would have to ask , is it one of theirs or one of our own? 

 Have you read the 1970's Chariots of the Gods? It poses some brilliant questions.
#38
Deb-8-a-bull
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A quick odds update. 

▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•▪○°•       THE ODDS of the GODS.     ○°¤▪○°•▪○••▪○°•▪○°•▪○°

Finding and proving Extraterrestrial life in 5 years  $20,000 to $1.
Finding and proving a actual God in 10 years  $100,000 to $1.

And remember.   Please  gamble responsibly.

#39
ebuc
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@Sidewalker
...think it's safe to assume they would be peaceful explorers.....
Or quietly on their way to use Earth as their new home base, and humans as just another source of protein.

Christianity in Universe would be ended. However, in an eternally cyclic Universe, whatever can be manifest, will eternally re-manifest even if it ceases to exist at for a time period. History repeats itself on cosmic scale so to say.

Archimedes discovered that, the 2D area of four equaltorial, bisection hexagonal planes that define a spherical 4-fold  cubo-octahedron  --LINK see graphic B-- are equal to the 2D surface area of that sphere being defined. I see this as being similar to math of black holes, i.e. it may be, that what ever is possible to exist in eternally cyclic Universe, may be Gravitationally encoded on the 2D event horizon surface of some or all black holes,

and on the 2D surface of those four bisecting hexagonal planes.  These four come in sets of five via the 5-fold icosahedron.

and here

Those primary 5-fold/4-fold 10 combined with the other 63 primar yplanes seen here as follows, total as 73 primary planes of subdivision sphere


Not shown are the possible 2ndary planes, trinary set, so and so on of subdivisions of the 4-fod { contains 3-fold } and the 5-fold.






#40
FLRW
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@DavidAZ
There is no such thing as intelligent life (aliens) outside Earth.  There is no proof.  Only hear-say and odd happenings.
I agree
#41
Sidewalker
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@FLRW
There is no such thing as intelligent life (aliens) outside Earth.  There is no proof.  Only hear-say and odd happenings.
I agree
I'm beginning to think there is such a thing as intelligent life inside Earth either.  It's mostly just odd happenings.
#42
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@DavidAZ
There is no such thing as intelligent life (aliens) outside Earth.  There is no proof.  Only hear-say and odd happenings.
Strictly speaking, you're conflating two different notions here. It's simply not possible to make the first statement based on the evidence available. The universe is literally larger and older than anyone can even begin to understand, and how many other celestial bodies have we done first hand research on?

The topic also says LIFE, not intelligent life. So we could (and I believe eventually WILL) be talking about microbial life, or the evidence thereof, in the ice we find on Mars, or in particles ejected from Enceladus. Would Jesus have died for this microbial life? THe existence of such life presents a lot of questions for all religions, make no mistake, but seems unlikely to sway true believers. 

To say that we're alone here is to imply that we've explored the whole of it and reached that conclusion. It seems pretty unlikely to me that no intelligent life exists anywhere but here; mathematically it doesn't equal zero, even if the number is infinitesimally small. The probable existence of intelligent life does not in any way mean that such life has or even could interact with ours, in fact THAT part seems impossible to me, based on physics, so I agree with you, the stuff we want so desperately to think is aliens or alien tech, almost any other explanation makes more sense (even those that sound conspiratorial are more likely, unless those conspiracies feature alien life). I'm curious though:

it is possible people do have visitations from demons or angels
This is somehow even less likely than actual alien interaction, and I'll show you how I see that. Where would angels and demons visit FROM, exactly? Is it within this universe?

The religion is not based on that there is not alien life but rather that there is a God who died for us.  And if aliens do exist, God created them too (animals) and gave us (humans) dominion over them also.  
I bolded this because wouldn't this mean that god died for us AND NOT THEM? This is indeed one of my favorite things to think about. Why would we have dominion over another race of beings that aren't from this planet and haven't been mentioned in the bible at all? It doesn't say god created martians, because Hebrews didn't even know the earth was round, forget knowing there are other planets out there. Sheesh, the bible didn't even know Australia or the Americas existed, saying it somehow grants man dominion over a race of beings (they wouldn't be animals, they'd be taxonomically undefined) from a moon of a planet that's never mentioned anywhere in the text seems quite a leap. But it's not unexpected! The whole reason we thought we were entitled to dominion over animals is because people want to conclude they're so special and different and yes, SUPERIOR to animals inherently, because why else would we have so much control over them and other resources? The answer HAS To be because some unseen entity loves us so dearly, and not that it's a result of an evolutionary advantage: advanced pattern recognition. The more research we do on animals and how they think, interact, communicate, the closer that gap is, though. For example, the idea of fairness (the precursor to what we think of as "justice") is clearly evident in monkeys, dogs, and elephants at least. 

ETA as to the topic, I actually did a topic on this a very long time ago, or at least a similar one, and I was not surprised to find that even if presented with literally incontrovertible evidence of a deity OTHER THAN ONE'S OWN existing and being responsible for everything in the universe, most Christians said "I'd rather be punished and keep believing in Christianity than admit it was wrong." People cling really closely to those beliefs, and as you point out David, will find a way to make them fit into reality as it changes rather than decide if those beliefs belong in reality. 

I'm pretty jealous of the Arizona sky in the summertime, when you can go out and literally see the arms of the galaxy stretch out in front of you. It's just inspiring, like enough to bring tears to your eyes if you're like me, and a little stoned :). Take advantage of that sky, David!
#43
DavidAZ
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@ludofl3x
I'd say, mathematically, there could always be a possibility since the universe is so vast and infinite, but with what we have to use for proof for intelligent life is near zero and more evidence points to man's inventions.  And I used intelligent life assuming that's what the OP had in mind, not just bacteria or other microbes.  I would assume this topic would cover spaceship flying creatures that could communicate freely with human kind and be on par with their abilities to build and destroy.  The whole idea of OP's post would be to say that there was proof of evolution and that we (humans) were not the only advanced creatures in the universe, therefore making the idea of Gods and religion obsolete. 

As for angels and demons, I see what you mean.  Where are they coming from or go to when they are done with your scary dark closet at night?  I think they are not corporal, meaning they have no real life span or home or idea of time.  Like a ghost I guess or maybe energy.  We wouldn't be able to find the "realm of angels and demons" just as much as we wouldn't be able to touch the "throne of God".  

I know that the writer's of the Bible didn't know everything, but you would assume that if it was important, then it would have been brought to light by God anyways.  I figure people would rather believe their traditions than to speculate on something that has circumstantial evidence.  I know the argument then becomes, then what about God.

As for the AZ skies.  I do enjoy them and they are great!  I live outside of town so I get  lot of stars at night.  I see at least one shooting star at night, if I sit and watch for a few minutes.  I have always been a desert rat my entire life, Las Vegas, then here.  So I have only known the blue skies and open night skies.
#44
ludofl3x
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@DavidAZ
'd say, mathematically, there could always be a possibility since the universe is so vast and infinite, but with what we have to use for proof for intelligent life is near zero and more evidence points to man's inventions.  And I used intelligent life assuming that's what the OP had in mind, not just bacteria or other microbes.  I would assume this topic would cover spaceship flying creatures that could communicate freely with human kind and be on par with their abilities to build and destroy.  The whole idea of OP's post would be to say that there was proof of evolution and that we (humans) were not the only advanced creatures in the universe, therefore making the idea of Gods and religion obsolete. 
Then I think we can agree: while there likely exists somewhere a form of life, even intelligent life, the vast expanse of space and the laws of physics make such a probability indistinguishable from impossible. 

As for angels and demons, I see what you mean.  Where are they coming from or go to when they are done with your scary dark closet at night?  I think they are not corporal, meaning they have no real life span or home or idea of time.  Like a ghost I guess or maybe energy.  We wouldn't be able to find the "realm of angels and demons" just as much as we wouldn't be able to touch the "throne of God".  
And this is exactly why I think they're less likely than aliens: we know that our universe, for all intents and purposes, exists inasmuch as we share it with each other. We have never been able to demonstrate that something exists outside of space and time, because those are the literal two preconditions for existence to happen. Therefore, I think it's likely that angels and demons are inventions of the human mind, much like I think alien technology, or what we're mistaking for that, is the invention of human minds and hands. If we can't demonstrate that a different 'realm' for lack of a better word exists, then there can't be a good reason to believe something lives there and interacts with us. 
#45
DavidAZ
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@ludofl3x
And this is exactly why I think they're less likely than aliens: we know that our universe, for all intents and purposes, exists inasmuch as we share it with each other. We have never been able to demonstrate that something exists outside of space and time, because those are the literal two preconditions for existence to happen. Therefore, I think it's likely that angels and demons are inventions of the human mind, much like I think alien technology, or what we're mistaking for that, is the invention of human minds and hands. If we can't demonstrate that a different 'realm' for lack of a better word exists, then there can't be a good reason to believe something lives there and interacts with us.
Good point.  It all fits within the realm of the unknown or human brain.