Why is it morally wrong for me to have 2-3 wives, perhaps 2 wives 1 long term GF?

Author: RationalMadman
RM
love
polygamy
polyamory
bdsm

Posts

Total: 107
Topic's author
#91
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@thett3
Educated and wealthy families almost universally raise their kids in stable two parent households. It’s possible that they’re unenlightened and backwards but I think it’s more likely that it’s just a social model that works
What do you define as a parent?

They tend to use other relatives, a babysitter, a cleaner, a hired tutor and all sorts of staff to not actually be 2 parents but either a single side parent in the permanent babysitter or three at the very least.
#92
Public-Choice
Public-Choice's avatar
Debates: 19
Posts: 1,065
3
4
8
Public-Choice's avatar
Public-Choice
3
4
8
-->
@RationalMadman
Well, for starters. You don't want to love any of these women. You don't want to commit to them. You don't want to let them completely assimilate to your life and be the most intimate person to you.

So. Yeah. You don't actually value any of them. You just want to collect them, like trophies.

And they don't want to love or value you. You're just another item to them. If they loved you, they'd want to commit to you. They'd want to share their life with you and make you their priority. But seeing as they also want to share you, then it really means nothing at all. There's no intimacy, no commitment, no real love.

You also don't think you are man enough to stick to one woman. You think you need multiple trophies to make you happy. This is a very toxic self image. And it won't lead to happiness. They feel the same way. They'd rather collect endless shallow, meaningless, non-committal relationships rather than find someone worth committing to and having an amazing, personal, intimate life with.

So. Yeah. You all have a low opinion of each other and yourselves in this scenario.

But, do you. It's a free country. And consent is consent.
Topic's author
#93
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@amandragon01
My primary issue would be the double standard. If you can have more than one partner why can't your partners?
Firstly if you are being very specific to me, we would have a wife together eventually. It would ve bisexual for the women.

I genuinely would prefer my wife is not purely hetero but bi/pan. That said, the real question you asked is why can she not walk away? She can. I can too. The matter of her wanting other men rarely comes up. I know there are poly women who always want more and that is not what I go for, I do not engage with them as more than friends at most because I know they are hookup material for me at most in the sexual and intimate department.

The other element is not males but dominance. I would not want a partner, male or female, that was as dominant as me. We would be thorns in each other's sides whereas two submissive partners can viably coexist without much clashing depending on a few things.
Topic's author
#94
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@Public-Choice
Well, for starters. You don't want to love any of these women. You don't want to commit to them. You don't want to let them completely assimilate to your life and be the most intimate person to you.
I will tackle this in two ways, the first will be whataboutism because it is important to realise the flip side.

1. Whataboutism
First what about them gaining from each other? I am confused why you assume they would not be each other's long term wife and best friend. Secondly, even if they are not, the other lets both of us not need to be there 24/7 for the other because that other partner is bonding and handling them while we do something else.

Also there are so many like me that solely go for one because they conform, forever having that urge for more and lying to their partner. I am certain I want this and the urge will not disappear.

2. Committing
So, you are making this specific to me but ignore any nuance. Firstly, I never deceive a partner about it and I am unsure what you would want me to say or do to commit more than I do. I always make sure they are okay with it first and often wait a whole month minimum to ever seek more but I am actually new to fully embracing it. It took years to even be sure I wanted it and that it was so much more than just a threesome fetish.

I totally commit. I chat about everything with my partner, we become each other's best friend and as I am the leader of the dynamic (I am typically the more dominant partner both in and out of sex, it is just how I am) I even make sure she tells me what is upsetting her when I spot clues she is upset about something or hiding things she assumes I do not want to be burdened with.

That said, I am not some angel. I am not in this on a selfless mission, I have needs and I do not mean sex itself. I mean, if she is a bad listener, does not really care for me but just a male partner that happens to be me etc, I am not afraid to breakup and sometimes all is fine but we have no chemistry and passion. I take relationships extremely serious, I do commit and I am there for my partner and demand the reverse. I actually want 2 partners so I am less demanding and shit to 1 who maybe is bad at providing one thing the other does. One may be far better for mt debating, intellectual side and needs, the other for my emotional ones. 

They would become each other's partner too. I would truly want them to get along and it being a team.

So. Yeah. You don't actually value any of them. You just want to collect them, like trophies.
This is why i set an upper limit of 2 serious maybe 3. It is not at all a game of that.

And they don't want to love or value you. You're just another item to them. If they loved you, they'd want to commit to you. They'd want to share their life with you and make you their priority. But seeing as they also want to share you, then it really means nothing at all. There's no intimacy, no commitment, no real love.
I have not actually had too much experience specifically with this because I am patient and cautious and discuss a lot already in the first week of a potential gf. So, only rarely have I been beyond 2 weeks in with a partner who indeed as you say was a female player that used me and ditched.

It also somewhat recently (relative to my life) that I took the introspective time to fully, truly know that polyamory is a genuine need in me, a true goal, not an excuse for anything. I actually never have cheated, I have instead had threesome urges that over time I realised were far deeper and poly urges and actually had led to breakups before because I told her I still lusted others and realised it is terrible to keep from people.

You also don't think you are man enough to stick to one woman. You think you need multiple trophies to make you happy. This is a very toxic self image. And it won't lead to happiness. They feel the same way. They'd rather collect endless shallow, meaningless, non-committal relationships rather than find someone worth committing to and having an amazing, personal, intimate life with.
Not sure what this means. You define manhood on monogamy and I am confused what the other part means, I do not go for women who want many others (esp other males) at all and I also dont want many others.

So. Yeah. You all have a low opinion of each other and yourselves in this scenario.
I think you have a super simplistic idea of polyamory.

Topic's author
#95
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@thett3
I agree with only 1 thing you said, if it is 1 woman and many men it can get really toxic really fast.

I am actually a bit of a misandrist in that sense and have no hesitation to say that men are fucking toxic beings without women.

The worst levels of severe bullying have been done in all boys schools and all male frats, most often.
Topic's author
#96
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
-->
@thett3
You confuse EQ with IQ btw.
#97
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
-->
@bmdrocks21
Yo badger, I think you’ll be joining the far right soon enough.

Don't think so. I actually enjoy the kaleidoscope of human diversity. I think the world would be a less colourful place without the trans, the red-pillers, the muscle-heads, the whoevers on either side. Even your lot who are so disgusted about everything and so caught up in what underwear the next person is wearing, I mean that's fun too, and I'll find myself in it in that I'm not it. What difference does it make to me if the next 5 women are unappealing where mine is appealing? None at all. Really don't get what all the upset is about.

The only thing I find really and truly ugly is the guns. 
#98
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
I find the American left to be often ludicrous, but the American right I find to be mostly pathetic. It's just impotent whinging about other people. Or sadolite's two boards up there taking a stand against electric cars because of some youtube video he watched. A man in his fifties, maybe sixties. Or Dr.Franklin having a panic attack about porn or getting triggered by the idea of people "finding themselves," like the most innocuous shit. That shit hurts to look at just as much as any ugly ho or whatever dumb shit you want to be mad about. But you could just choose not to be an autistic little weirdo, ya know. Poke a bit of fun and get on with your life. I dunno. Gotta be a way to walk sagely through all this nonsense.

Ya know what's a fun thought is Jesus comes back and he's walking through the land again gathering disciples. Paul's Paulina now, she/her. Luke's never been laid, hates women, contemptuous masturbator. He finds Thomas waving his hands at windmills. Matthew is Elon Musk making a whole bunch of dumb tweets that Jesus has to reply to. Of course he's got to get on Twitter. And so on. 

Jesus has surely thrown his hands up in the air about us at this point. 
#99
badger
badger's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,243
3
3
3
badger's avatar
badger
3
3
3
Politics is a character flaw tbh.
#100
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@amandragon01
Secondly, I would say that came down to who I was with to my knowledge the issue never came up. I certainly wasn't aware of it as a child. If I was with my grandparents then they had complete authority, with my aunts the same or with my parents. It never became an issue because there was trust in the family. My parents never restricted what any of my family could say or do with me. They never had to, because they knew the family could be trusted with my care. (As I got older I don't think my mother was too happy about her mum's spiritualism, but that was something I was surprised to realise in discussion with my mother as an adult)
My question was who had the final say out of all of them. Not who trusted who. 

Firstly, you never answered my question, what happens when the mother and father have different beliefs or principles? This was certainly the case with my parents. Doesn't this lead to as confused a child? Why does a third person change that?
A mother and father shouldn't have different beliefs and principles, rather similar ones. This is the best way to raise a child, because there is the mother, and the father, who have similar beliefs and can raise the children accordingly. 
The mother turns baby's in to boys. The father turns boys into men. 
The father turns baby's into girls. The mother turns girls into women. 
#101
amandragon01
amandragon01's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 101
1
2
2
amandragon01's avatar
amandragon01
1
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
A mother and father shouldn't have different beliefs and principles, rather similar ones.
I'm not asking you what should be, but rather what happens when things don't go as you think they should.

This is the best way to raise a child, because there is the mother, and the father, who have similar beliefs and can raise the children accordingly.
That sounds a lot like opinion. Got any way to show and objective 'best'.  Are you saying that you think a person should be raised to accept a set of beliefs given to them by their parents? If so, why is that better than raising a child to determine their own beliefs?
 
The mother turns baby's in to boys. The father turns boys into men. 
The father turns baby's into girls. The mother turns girls into women.
Can you support this assertion with evidence? Or is it just based on opinions?
#102
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@amandragon01
I'm not asking you what should be, but rather what happens when things don't go as you think they should.
Well, if a father, doesn't have similar beliefs and principles as the mother, than there is going to be a lot of conflict on how to raise a child. 

That sounds a lot like opinion. Got any way to show and objective 'best'.  Are you saying that you think a person should be raised to accept a set of beliefs given to them by their parents? If so, why is that better than raising a child to determine their own beliefs?
Yes they should, because then they are going to not have anything to set their beliefs off of, therefore, not having a basic set of beliefs. 

Can you support this assertion with evidence? Or is it just based on opinions?
Women don't know how to be men, therefore can't teach their sons to be men. 
Men don't know how to be women, therefore can't teach their girls to be women. 
#103
bmdrocks21
bmdrocks21's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 2,798
4
6
11
bmdrocks21's avatar
bmdrocks21
4
6
11
-->
@badger
The only thing I find really and truly ugly is the guns
But if you love the kaleidoscope, you must love us gun nuts as well, yes?
#104
amandragon01
amandragon01's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 101
1
2
2
amandragon01's avatar
amandragon01
1
2
2
-->
@YouFound_Lxam
Well, if a father, doesn't have similar beliefs and principles as the mother, than there is going to be a lot of conflict on how to raise
a child. 
I disagree based on personal experience, however let us assume you're right. What then would make three people with the same principles and beliefs worse for a child's upbringing than two parents who don't share the same principles and beliefs.

Yes they should, because then they are going to not have anything to set their beliefs off of, therefore, not having a basic set of beliefs. 
Not true. I had a wide range of beliefs, opinions and ideas to base my beliefs off of. I was never confused by this. I knew my mother had her beliefs, I knew my dad didn't share them and I knew members of my family had yet different beliefs.

As for the link. That specifically compares to single parents and step parents. Does that show that it's better to have two parents or to have both biological parents in the home?

Women don't know how to be men, therefore can't teach their sons to be men. 
Men don't know how to be women, therefore can't teach their girls to be women.
This assumes that there's only one way to be a man or a woman. In my experience people learn to be men or women through their experiences. A good role model is great, but a bad role model can be far worse than none at all. Ultimately it's an individual who makes themself a man or woman usually with a lot of support from those around them.
#105
YouFound_Lxam
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 2,182
3
4
7
YouFound_Lxam's avatar
YouFound_Lxam
3
4
7
-->
@amandragon01
I disagree based on personal experience, however let us assume you're right. What then would make three people with the same principles and beliefs worse for a child's upbringing than two parents who don't share the same principles and beliefs.
More confusion and distress on who to trust. 
Imagine 3 people telling you different things, instead of two.

Not true. I had a wide range of beliefs, opinions and ideas to base my beliefs off of. I was never confused by this. I knew my mother had her beliefs, I knew my dad didn't share them and I knew members of my family had yet different beliefs.
What were they based off of though?

This assumes that there's only one way to be a man or a woman. In my experience people learn to be men or women through their experiences. A good role model is great, but a bad role model can be far worse than none at all. Ultimately it's an individual who makes themself a man or woman usually with a lot of support from those around them.
It does not assume this. It means that only men know how to be men, and only women know how to be women. 




#106
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
The reason you shouldn't have two or three wives has nothing to do with polyamorous relationships but your attitude towards women. Abusing one woman mentally/ verbally would be bad enough but to think you might do it to three or four at one time is unacceptable.
Topic's author
#107
RationalMadman
RationalMadman's avatar
Debates: 574
Posts: 19,931
10
11
11
RationalMadman's avatar
RationalMadman
10
11
11
Should they abuse each other verbally and mentally? What is your point there?