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@Polytheist-Witch
Your relationship is sad then.
Why is it morally wrong for me to have 2-3 wives, perhaps 2 wives 1 long term GF?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Okay. Let me know if you have any other input.
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@RationalMadman
Put the shoe on the other foot and ask the question again. Is it morale for your wife to have multiple husbands, forget the idea that you may not like it when thinking about it. Your feelings don't matter. Even better leave morality out of it all together when thinking about it.
I know people like to go on about how polygamy doesn't benefit women and the state it's in now it doesn't. Those goofball Mormons are authoritarian and they want little harems. An actual polyamorous relationship with adults in it who treat each other with respect is a perfectly reasonable relationship. Especially in the case of having someone who is interested in more than one sex. This person is able to express themselves sexually without cheating or hurting anybody else. So when you have three or more people who are adults, that treat each other respectfully and equally and everything is done in a way that benefits everybody there's absolutely nothing wrong with the relationship. I mean there are cultures where it's standard for men to have a wife and a girlfriend. The two never meet, they would never leave their wife, the girlfriend understands her role and everybody gets along fine. Now if you can have a situation where those two women get along and live under the same roof what's the difference. All these different relationships and whatnot seem to be gaining steam pretty fast so I wouldn't be surprised if 5 years from now polygamy/polyamory's workout and we see more of it out in the mainstream.
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@sadolite
Put the shoe on the other foot and ask the question again. Is it morale for your wife to have multiple husbands, forget the idea that you may not like it when thinking about it. Your feelings don't matter. Even better leave morality out of it all together when thinking about it.
I am confused what you mean by the question unless you think that:
a) my partner and I have to work the same way psychologically
b) she cannot enjoy the other woman in a way another man and me would probably never enjoy each other and I don't just mean sexually I mean clashing as who is the one wearing the pants so to speak etc.
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@RationalMadman
In the 'western cultures' and really most non-Islamic cultures, it's seen as wrong but why?
In the Islamic countries where polgyny is legal, less than 1% of men live with more than one woman.
Perhaps it's not as great as you imagine it is, and I'm positive it's not as easy as you think.
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@Sidewalker
out of curiosity so you can explain, why is it not as easy as I think?
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@RationalMadman
out of curiosity so you can explain, why is it not as easy as I think?
Get real, first you have to find three women who want a relationship on that basis, and then you have to make it work and keep them happy, dream on.
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@Sidewalker
and that's why they end up with me, because you had that attitude and I had mine. Not that we necessarily have the same type though, just a metaphor.
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@Sidewalker
One tip I learned from my experience so far is it's definitely one by one that's gonna get me there, as in you focus entirely on woman 1 and 2 before ever thinking of 3 existing in the scenario, keep 2 solid af and only then begin to push for 3 because 3 also is gonna be different in the first place, not necessarily the least needy but the one you can't just chat endlessly with and kiss day in day out and such whatever.
This means she's gonna have to be the busier one, the steelier one perhaps. Things to be worked out as we go along and evolve it.
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@RationalMadman
One tip I learned from my experience so far is it's definitely one by one that's gonna get me there, as in you focus entirely on woman 1 and 2 before ever thinking of 3 existing in the scenario, keep 2 solid af and only then begin to push for 3 because 3 also is gonna be different in the first place, not necessarily the least needy but the one you can't just chat endlessly with and kiss day in day out and such whatever.This means she's gonna have to be the busier one, the steelier one perhaps. Things to be worked out as we go along and evolve it.
There's a term for that....death wish.
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@Sidewalker
you do know that they'd know each other existed at the very least the entire time right?
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@RationalMadman
you do know that they'd know each other existed at the very least the entire time right?
Oh yeah, and women never change thier mind, so there's that.
There is nothing unnatural about any shared love
if that experience brings both partners into a fuller state of being, if you and three women can make that work for you then more power to you. It just seems to me that in the situation you are imagining you would all miss out on what's best about a deep and loving relationship.
If that loser, selfish, moron on sister wives can find four women willing to marry him you should be fine.
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@RationalMadman
I will admit that I don't fancy them fucking and being with other men in that way but I'm not gonna set a 'no male friends' nonsense barrier. Within reason they can even flirt with other guys if that's their nature, what I ask to you is why is this immoral?
This is the only moral problem. If you want to have an open relationship, it has to be open both ways. That means that they can fuck other men (or women if that's what they like). Saying "within reason" like you're being generous with their freedoms as if you own them, meanwhile you're freeing yourself to have sex with as many women as you want? Absolute hypocrite. If you have an open relationship but one or more of your partners feels perfectly happy to only have you, the more power to them, but it should be their choice.
I personally have some problems with the institute of marriage from a legal standpoint, especially because it makes breakups more costly, so I would recommend not getting married at all if you go the polyamorous route. The tax benefits, etc., are minimal compared to the potential downsides if a relationship ends, especially since polyamorous marriages are more likely to fail than monogamous ones.
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@K_Michael
This is the only moral problem. If you want to have an open relationship, it has to be open both ways. That means that they can fuck other men (or women if that's what they like). Saying "within reason" like you're being generous with their freedoms as if you own them, meanwhile you're freeing yourself to have sex with as many women as you want? Absolute hypocrite. If you have an open relationship but one or more of your partners feels perfectly happy to only have you, the more power to them, but it should be their choice.
No. It doesn't. There are other 'couples' (they aren't really 2 then I guess) with this arrangement anyway and I don't just mean some hyperIslamic couple, I mean bdsm and/or swingers.
Where they differ is often the fine line between swinging and poly in the man and whether the woman enjoys women in an active way or a cuckquean way. I am allowed to firmly have power to me and it be my choice to set that boundary if they don't like it they literally can be my friend or leave (I'd probably need a full week to get over them at least with 0 contact anyway and that's only if it's a fresh relationship that I just got into, otherwise I'd need longer).
You seem to think only the submissive one is entitled to set demands and negotiate and this is a common anti-dominant anti-masculine misconception all at once but that is not the case. I am allowed to say if you mess around with other men beyond very basic flirting that's just your playfulness, you will not be the woman I claim as my own and I won't be the man you have as your alpha.
Equality gets misconstrued a lot to imply that the one in charge or benefitting from a responsible leadership role between the 2 of you overall, AKA shotcaller role, is somehow the lesser partner.
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@K_Michael
I want to get married for love primarily and what saddens me is that we can't all get married in 3-way or 4-way sense.
Why is it morally wrong for me to have 2-3 wives, perhaps 2 wives 1 long term GF?
Utilitarianism proposes that we minimize suffering
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@bmdrocks21
Won't point out it maximises pleasure too. Nice one, shitposter gets a W.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Polyamory’s growth is not surprising- we are no longer a high trust society.
If you can’t trust your spouse not to cheat on you, just pretend you’re fine with it
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@bmdrocks21
Not quite. The natural state of humans is men competing viciously to be the one many women choose, this has been the case in all civilisations early on but elite families benefitted from the structure of monogamy.
The reason is that if an elite bloodline had only daughters in a generation, it allowed them to maintain their prowess even though they'd lose their name, on a raw DNA level, by ensuring the elite men had to be loyal.
Under polyamory and polygamy peasant women could date/marry 'up' but that was inherently toxic as they'd be dependent anyway.
Since the societies are shifting towards women being equal to men and even in some cases having more protections in place, it follows in my opinion that it could only benefit them if they actually want a high value guy not for his income anymore but intellect, depth, connection etc.
It has to be fulfilling for all participants. Not everyone is wired as territorial as others.
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@RationalMadman
Equality gets misconstrued a lot to imply that the one in charge or benefitting from a responsible leadership role between the 2 of you overall, AKA shotcaller role, is somehow the lesser partner.
??? How does letting your partners get the same choice as you make you the lesser partner? It's okay to want an unequal power dynamic in your relationship, that's what sub/dom relationships are about, but you are delusional if you're calling it equal.
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@K_Michael
It is totally 100% equal. You don't seem to understand both are opting into it every single day, there is of course some sense of loyalty and guilt once in to just ditch the other cold but I am all for let's say 'fuck off' to each other and truly move on type breakups.
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@K_Michael
you are a gay guy so I feel this is going to go a direction that I am just out of my depth as ironically I can discuss some things about lesbian dynamics in this topic but gay men and me I just don't know them well or understand the way they function psychologically in relationships. I am too straight in that sense.
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@RationalMadman
Why is polyamory of a consensual kind, no cheating, all in on it, all regularly communicating and fulfilled looked down upon?
The children. I would presume that this is based on the assumption that a man is less likely to devote his resources to children that aren't his, which is a risk when his female partner is "polyamorous." And while polygamy is condemned in Judeo-Christian, Western Cultures, men having concubines has slipped through the cracks. While I would never do it personally (having experienced it before) I'm with you: as long as the participating members consent, to each his own.
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@RationalMadman
I'm bi with a preference for women, actually. As I said before, if the partner is happy with just you, then that's great, but don't pretend that giving them the option of staying loyal or leaving the relationship is equal to giving yourself free rein to have as many women as it takes to make you happy.
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@Athias
I also don't want concubines unless I'm very sure she'll raise it well. I want to be a father figure not just a sperm donor, major difference.
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@RationalMadman
Why bother to get married at all.
Just fuck as many women as will allow you to fuck them.
Call them a wife, call them whatever. It's all conceptual nonsense at the end of the day.
And then roll over and go to sleep.
And if she's still there in the morning, have a quickie before breakfast.
Sex and procreation human style, what a faff.
And if you find a life partner. Well, you can then do that. Marriage still unnecessary.
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@RationalMadman
Since the societies are shifting towards women being equal to men and even in some cases having more protections in place, it follows in my opinion that it could only benefit them if they actually want a high value guy not for his income anymore but intellect, depth, connection etc.It has to be fulfilling for all participants.
"So you see honey, I don't want you with other men but you have to understand that since I'm higher value then you, I'm going to be screwing at least three women"
"Oh baby, that is so intellectual and deep, it gets me hot, fulfill me baby"
I see the only problem with your plan is figuring how to choose only three from all those subserviant women that want you to fulfill them that way.
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@RationalMadman
I'm not well versed in philosophy or arguing what morality is instead of the outcomes of things. But who was it that said you can judge the morality of an action based on what would happen if everyone did it? I think it's something like that. It's hard to justify casting aspersions on a certain individual circumstance between adults...but if everyone did it the consequences would be disastrous. Young men already do stupid, violent, ill advised stuff that harms themselves and others all the time, both to impress young women and just out of general foolishness. If everyone practiced polygamy most men would end up with nobody which would not only make them miserable but would create a large incentive to go ahead with foolish, nihilistic, and violent behavior. And I doubt such an arrangement of constantly having to compete with other women is fulfilling for the "wives." Without the partnership and obligation of a monogamous marriage I don't see why a powerful man capable of having three or four wives doesn't just throw her out once she's no longer attractive for a newer model. If you know anything about older, lonely women you know they're some of the most miserable people out there.
Take a look at societies where polygamy is common, not only are they much different from ours in other ways that may make it more workable but it doesn't seem to really work there either. This looks to me more or less like a map of where you can expect to see constant low level warfare: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/12/07/polygamy-is-rare-around-the-world-and-mostly-confined-to-a-few-regions/
Spouses in good marriages have the deepest bonds imaginable. It truly is a ride or die partnership that creates the foundation for a family, which itself is the bedrock of any civilization. You just can't create that that type of bond between a man and the favorite of his four sex toys.