How racism fuels the pro gun movement

Author: Double_R

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#91
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@Double_R
I've already explained in detail what my goal is, 
So no comment on supporting Jim Crow laws by confiscating guns. Didn't expect you to reply to that TBH.

it's an overview of American politics and the ideas that are prevalent within it.
Such as supporting a key feature of Jim Crow laws and the seeming regression of the left by creating policies to disenfranchise Blacks of their constitutional right to defend themselves....

To which I would assume you should stay silent on this part of the discussion if you want to keep your position you stated in your OP coherent.

Just concede this point and move on to whatever agenda you want to push here.

Yes, 
So yes, you were surprised. I wasn't
#92
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but when you step back and look at the national conversation, you look at who benefits and who loses from our unwillingness to do anything about gun safety in America.
The people who directly benefit from gun violence are generational Democrat leaders ruling unopposed in New York and Chicago for decades because race -baiting is a proven way to win elections. As long as blacks are suffering, there is a race card to be played. It's a game over 50 years in the making; securing a Democrat dynasty in those cities. Crime is a perpetual wedge election issue no Democrat leader benefits by solving them, not when there are imaginary armies of Klansmen to herd people to the polls and secure unobstructed power.

The proof is 50 years of more of the same, heading to another 50 more. 

These people have absolutely benefitted. No question. And as long as the people tolerate race-baiting, there's no benefit to solve anything.
#93
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@thett3
As a tangent this is how I know the “woke” type people who are constantly attacking whites for having ancestors who did the things all humans did in those times, or for having difficulty pronouncing someones name actually hate white people. I feel bad making a factual statement about black crime rates for fear it might be misconstrued in a way that could hurt or upset innocent people while they feel absolutely no guilt about throwing out constant agitprop and blood libel. 
It's not so difficult to understand. So much on the right is simply antagonistic. Have a look at the memes sadolite likes to post or that YouFound_Lxam's posts. I mean, I don't see anything like that on the left. Roosevelt is hateful, but a righteous fire sort, not a demonic sort. And your positions are reasoned and you're frustrated they won't be heard, but you don't think a lot on the right don't just have a whole lot of fun hating on trans, or gays, or blacks? How did you ever expect to be heard? Hate is loud. 

Anyways, hello folks, and Merry Christmas. 
#94
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@badger
Merry Christmas bro 

I mean, I don't see anything like that on the left.
It's more funny from the left, you really should look for it. Like I try to keep tabs on the fat positivity movement. I guess you could argue it's apolitical, but it's hilarious none the less and worth keeping tabs on that sort of left wing antagonism. 
#95
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@Double_R
I think part of what's stopping much of the country from being more sympathetic to gun control arguments is ultimately rooted in racism for the reasons I've laid out in detail. I'm just curious what people have to say to it. 
And you’re dead wrong. 

People are opposed to asinine gun control is rooted in safety (ie - self-defense and defense of others) from violent offenders who would t think twice about pulling the trigger on you or a loved one, and a corrupt tyrannical government. That’s why we oppose gun control. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. 🤦‍♂️

#96
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City of Chicago v McDonald incorporated the second amendment to the states. A black man sued the city of Chicago because they didn’t allow him to own a gun and his house was broken into repeatedly. Most people don’t know this story
#97
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@ILikePie5
When you believe Democrats can do no wrong, you can be assured that they will.
#98
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You guys are really being unfair to double R LOL.

His thread legitimately got derailed because of partisan bitching and his point entirely missed. 

He actually seems to make an effort to come at this from a neutral position steal manning his opponents despite using loaded terms like "racist".

This is why nobody sticks around. 

He essentially is wondering whether it's easy to ignore calls for gun control for whites because it effects black communities more. 

He isn't blaming whites for being unaware of the disproportionate impact on African Americans.

He isn't saying all arguments against gun control are based on race. 

This is why people don't stick around. 

Literally every Republican on the site who commented on this made it about what political football team they are on, instead of the issue. 

This isn't about whether some gun control restrictions go too far or an argument even for gun restrictions. It is more of a sociological question and sadly he would have probably got better responses from the brain dead types who frequent reddit. 
#99
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@PREZ-HILTON
Give me a break man....let's see if you can parse this statement out to anything coherent.

"What I’m implying is that much of the political right’s opposition to gun control laws stems from an overly simplistic world view where everyone is either a good guy or a bad guy... in order to maintain this world view one would have to accept the notion that those communities facing serious challenges with gun violence (like the black community) are ultimately filled with “bad guys"
In one sentence he says EVERYONE is a good and bad guy (that's all places and all races), and then inexplicably states a ridiculous non-sequitur that at the same time, only black communities are filled with bad guys....just throws it out there for no fucking reason.

The entire premise is illogical and absurd. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. It's not even proving anything, only throwing the race card around haphazardly.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt though and tell me what I missed in that statement.
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#100
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@TWS1405_2
And you’re dead wrong. 

People are opposed to asinine gun control is rooted in safety (ie - self-defense and defense of others) from violent offenders who would t think twice about pulling the trigger on you or a loved one, and a corrupt tyrannical government. That’s why we oppose gun control. It has absolutely nothing to do with racism. 🤦‍♂️
You haven't read a word of this thread.

I stated "much of" the political right's opposition is rooted in racism, not the entire reason. And if you bothered to read any deeper, in no way am I arguing that racism is the main reason but rather an element of how people shield themselves from the counter arguments of their position.

Try again.
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#101
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@PREZ-HILTON
Literally every Republican on the site who commented on this made it about what political football team they are on, instead of the issue. 
^^^^^
Topic's author
#102
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@Greyparrot
"What I’m implying is that much of the political right’s opposition to gun control laws stems from an overly simplistic world view where everyone is either a good guy or a bad guy... in order to maintain this world view one would have to accept the notion that those communities facing serious challenges with gun violence (like the black community) are ultimately filled with “bad guys"
In one sentence he says EVERYONE is a good and bad guy (that's all places and all races), and then inexplicably states a ridiculous non-sequitur that at the same time, only black communities are filled with bad guys....just throws it out there for no fucking reason.
Please learn to read.

I didn't say everyone is a good guy and a bad guy, I said everyone is a good guy *or* a bad guy. This point is important because it points to the overly simplistic and even childish worldview many hold, where nuance is dismissed and the trials and tribulations people go through to make it in this world are dismissed outright. When you give yourself the luxury of not having to burden yourself with where others are coming from you are going to be more prone to misjudging the character of others. This is a very prevalent trait in what anyone would call a racist.

But more importantly, I never said it was only in black communities. I said it was far more common in black communities, because it is. That's a fact, and one I'm sure you yourself have pointed out many times as you argue against BLM sympathizers.

And I didn't throw this out for no reason, I walked you through step by step how we get from the premises to the conclusion. You haven't even bothered to address it but rather deflect with all of this strawman bullshit.

Learn to read, then try again.
#103
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@Double_R
This point is important because it points to the overly simplistic and even childish worldview many hold, where nuance is dismissed and the trials and tribulations people go through to make it in this world are dismissed outright.
The only childish worldview in this thread are the people dismissing the very prevalent black democrats in high crime areas that are also pro gun because of a long history of Jim Crow gun confiscation. Ignore this fact at your own peril as you push your "woke anti-gun narrative" because it will be yet another reason for blacks to give up on the short-sighted democrat party.

Just because a bunch of white educated limousine liberals don't like the smell from across the tracks doesn't mean you have to throw everyone under the bus...
#104
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@Double_R
I’ve read enough and you’ve failed to read enough. 

You’re a denialist poster child for the Dunning Kruger Effect, plain and simple. 

Merry fucking Christmas!! 
#105
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@Athias
Everyone is racist.
#106
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The real racists are people who segregate people into races and build stereotypes about them.
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#107
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@Greyparrot
The only childish worldview in this thread are the people dismissing the very prevalent black democrats in high crime areas that are also pro gun because of a long history of Jim Crow gun confiscation. Ignore this fact at your own peril as you push your "woke anti-gun narrative"
I ignore this talking point of yours because it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.

#108
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@Double_R
I ignore this talking point of yours because it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread.
Smart choice. It is off topic. This isn't even a thread about the 2nd amendment perse . It's about whether 2nd amendment "enthusiasts" have an easy time ignoring gun control arguments because it is typically not something that effects their communities.

I have seen similar arguments concerning the different treatment of the crack epidemic vs the meth epidemic. I don't think the different approaches were all racial though. We also are in a time where liberal ideologies around drugs are more prevalent and the libertarian movement has done a lot of work pushing the narrative that drug addiction is a medical issue not a crime.

Personally, I think yes. I think if gun violence was more prevalent in the white community, there would be a lot more people for more gun control. Personally I think the gun control arguments are wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that a clear majority of people would disagree with me, if the problem was right in their own backyard. 
#109
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@PREZ-HILTON
 It's about whether 2nd amendment "enthusiasts" have an easy time ignoring gun control arguments because it is typically not something that effects their communities.

What exactly do you think will happen when the gun-control "enthusiasts" start confiscating guns from people who live in black communities?

Let's go down that rabbit hole if, for some reason, gun controllers get everything they want.

My point is whether or not 2nd A "enthusiasts" ignore what's going on in the communities is irrelevant if it  also so happens to be what the people in Black communities want anyway.

I am reminded of a famous quote from a historical leader on this :


The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us. Gen. Banks was distressed with solicitude as to what he should do with the Negro. Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, “What shall we do with the Negro?” I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are worm eaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature’s plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don’t disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don’t disturb him! [Applause.] If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,—your interference is doing him a positive injury. Gen. Banks’ “preparation” is of a piece with this attempt to prop up the Negro. Let him fall if he cannot stand alone! If the Negro cannot live by the line of eternal justice, so beautifully pictured to you in the illustration used by Mr. Phillips, the fault will not be yours, it will be his who made the Negro, and established that line for his government. [Applause.] Let him live or die by that. If you will only untie his hands, and give him a chance, I think he will live. He will work as readily for himself as the white man. A great many delusions have been swept away by this war. One was, that the Negro would not work; he has proved his ability to work. Another was, that the Negro would not fight; that he possessed only the most sheepish attributes of humanity; was a perfect lamb, or an “Uncle Tom;” disposed to take off his coat whenever required, fold his hands, and be whipped by anybody who wanted to whip him. But the war has proved that there is a great deal of human nature in the Negro, and that “he will fight,” as Mr. Quincy, our President, said, in earlier days than these, “when there is reasonable probability of his whipping anybody.” [Laughter and applause.]

(1865) -FREDERICK DOUGLASS



#110
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Personally, I think yes. I think if gun violence was more prevalent in the white community, there would be a lot more people for more gun control
That's absolutely not what happened to end the 1925 prohibition gang wars though. And that was almost exclusively a spike of white people with guns killing white people.

This is an unfounded opinion.

I encourage you to reread post 75.

While gun control enthusiasts worked to ban the tommy-gun, by the time it was enacted(around 1936), the gangs were already all but gone due to the reasons I listed in post 75.

The main reason why the ban occurred was because most law abiding whites never used a tommy gun for protection. Since there was no pushback, the gun could be banned with much support. In United States vs Miller (1939), the opinion read as "if only outlaws use this gun, we should probably outlaw it."

There's no way law abiding blacks would ever support confiscation of the glock-19, the most common gun used by both black gangs and law abiding blacks.

Ever.
#111
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@PREZ-HILTON
And if you were to be totally honest about it, the reason why red state people don't give a care about dead blacks in New York gangwars likely has nothing to do with skin color.

If they were being totally  honest, "a good Democrat is a dead Democrat" would likely be the most prevalent sympathy.
#112
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@Greyparrot
I agree with most of what you said. 


If they were being totally honest, "a good Democrat is a dead Democrat" would likely be the most prevalent sympathy.
I believe most of us have people close to us who are Democrats who we love very much. My wife's cats for example. 
#113
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I believe most of us have people close to us who are Democrats who we love very much. My wife's cats for example. 
I agree. I am talking about Democrats far away in New York ghettos.
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#114
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@Greyparrot
What exactly do you think will happen when the gun-control "enthusiasts" start confiscating guns from people who live in black communities?
What the hell are you talking about? There is nothing in this thread nor the national debate on gun control that has anything to do with gun confiscation. This is an absurd and entirely made up right wing boogeyman.

My point is whether or not 2nd A "enthusiasts" ignore what's going on in the communities is irrelevant if it  also so happens to be what the people in Black communities want anyway.
They don't. The black community is the most supportive of any racial group in the US when it comes to stricter gun laws.


And if you were to be totally honest about it, the reason why red state people don't give a care about dead blacks in New York gangwars likely has nothing to do with skin color.

If they were being totally  honest, "a good Democrat is a dead Democrat" would likely be the most prevalent sympathy.
Since racism plays no significant role in this according to you, please explain how you got from black people -> gangwars -> liberals (who are better off dead)


#115
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@Double_R
They don't. The black community is the most supportive of any racial group in the US when it comes to stricter gun laws.

Again, you are wrong, dead wrong about this. Like I said before which you ignore at your own peril, Blacks living in suburbia Sacramento will poll much differently than Blacks in New York ghettos when it comes to guns. They are NOT a monolithic group. Black communities are diverse all across the country. Ignore this fact at your own peril.

And you Live in New York, so you really don't have much excuse to be this willfully ignorant about your own neighbors.
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#116
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@Greyparrot
The only thing I'm ignoring are your pointless deflections. The fact that there are diverse groups within the black community is common sense to anyone who lives amongst our society. That has no relevance to this topic. Again, this is a broad conversation about American politics. I don't know what is so difficult about that.
#117
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@Double_R
Again, this is a broad conversation about American politics.
Then why did you specifically limit the discussion to right wing racists on one side and then make an overbroad generalization of the "black community" on the other side?

Seems like you are projecting your own generalizations on what you think the "black community" is, because you came nowhere near proving the case that most people on the right normally think this way.

Most normal black people will read what you wrote and think you are a flaming racist for such overbroad and stereotypical generalizations about violence and gun control. Especially the ones in New York, your neighbors, as evidenced by the article I linked, who do not sympathize one bit about your egocentric gun control ideas on how to "make their lives better"

What sickens me is that gun control in most liberal cities is almost exclusively a middle-class white thing. And that alone speaks volumes on the exact racial perceptions originating from the highbrow leftists. But I guess that's to be expected in Democrat-run cities where the largest wealth gaps are visibly apparent along with class attitudes, a racial caste system, and the corresponding prejudices.




^^^ all these articles are accurate and support what I am saying here.
#118
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@Public-Choice
It’s not a stereotype if it is in fact TRUE!!! 
#119
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@TWS1405_2
The greatest deception men suffer is from their own opinions. - Leonardo Da Vinci
#120
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@Double_R
I think part of what's stopping much of the country from being more sympathetic to gun control arguments is ultimately rooted in racism for the reasons I've laid out in detail. I'm just curious what people have to say to it.
The conclusion of your OP is: 

To be clear, one can find plenty of other reasons to oppose gun control so I’m not arguing that all 2A enthusiasts are racist, but when you step back and look at the national conversation, you look at who benefits and who loses from our unwillingness to do anything about gun safety in America, and you put them together, it becomes very obvious that racism plays a big part of it. If white neighborhoods were plagued by gun violence the way black neighborhoods have been I sincerely doubt the “bad guy with a gun” narrative would resonate anywhere nearly as strong as it does.
I think this is obviously correct although you are probably mixing up "Republicans" with "white"--white liberals tend to have the biggest kneejerk reaction against guns of all from my experience due to their disposition towards safetyism. If gun violence became a bigger problem in areas where people who support gun rights live, they would become more concerned with gun violence as an issue and maybe they would rethink their position, or perhaps double down. That just seems like a truism. If opioid addiction became as prominent an issue among East Asians as it once was and now is for rural white people, I expect that East Asians would start to become more concerned with opioid addiction but that's not due to racism against rural white people, just the natural updating of how people see the world due to what is going on around them. 

Your OP seems to imply the existence of a large group of people who 1) Are aware of how serious the problem of gun violence in the black community is and 2) believe that gun control would fix the issue/don't have serious concerns about the tradeoffs associated with gun control but, 3) do not support gun control despite believing it would save lives in these areas without any serious costs because they don't care enough due to the race of most victims. I'm sure there are people like that but probably not very many. Republicans are more likely to a) not even be aware of how serious the issue is and b) come up with rationalizations ("only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun") for how guns are actually the solution because their disposition is pro-gun. Of course white people (or anyone) would care more about an issue if it was happening to them and their communities instead of somewhere that they only hear about on the nightly news or the internet but that just seems natural, not malevolent.