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@YouFound_Lxam
The facts show that God exists?
I will not get into that conversation right now, because it is a long argument.
Don't get into it - it's all wrong anyways.
Christians don't hate the LGBTQ+ community
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Total:
267
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@Lemming
Free will at its finest.
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@Bones
Don't get into it - it's all wrong anyways.
Ok then. You have the free will to believe that ;)
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@Bones
I concede.
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@YouFound_Lxam
A difference of who you are, what you've experienced,
I'd say,
Though practically speaking,
One's will 'is exerted,
And in the direction one rolls, they might find themselves.
I'm an Atheist myself,
But were I different material,
Different experience,
Might be I'd be a Theist again.
There's smart people, who believe in God,
People who's experiences speak strongly to them.
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@Public-Choice
You will argue the Christian God does command Christians to vote against LGBTQ+ rights.
I will argue anything where and when ever I believe their is a genuine argument. But I don't believe I have ever said - "god commands that Christians vote against LGBTQ+ rights".
What I have said is that the god of the bible finds homosexuals and homosexuality an "abomination" and that they should be "put to death".. You would know this if you had been following this thread..... or have read your bible.
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@Stephen
A. As we all know Stephen, the GOD of the bible is an internal electro-chemical response to a sensory stimulus.
Same as every other thought process and consequent output or physical action.
Though it does seem that at times, certain physical output or self destruction can be involuntary. That is to say, not preceded by, or necessitating a thought.
I digress.
Nonetheless, God of the bible is undoubtedly always an internal electro-chemical action/reaction.
Which is not to say, that externally there isn't a GODDO type thing.
But because we are always reliant upon A. It's impossible to know exactly what's going on out there.
As everything is an internally projected simulation.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Why is it a sin.All of the verses in the bible that say it is a sin.If you are going to argue against the Bible, you should at least read it first.
I've read the Bible, please provide the verses that say it is a sin.
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@YouFound_Lxam
There is no instance where you cannot change your personal desires.
Are you saying your sexual orientation was a choice? You could have chosen to be gay?
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@Bones
A fact based one.
What facts are you referring to, what facts are you basing your opinion that God doesn't exist on?
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@Stephen
Post #11:
You seemed to be agreeing with Geon's statement here, were you not?
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@Sidewalker
There are no facts. Either for or against a GODDO.
Middle Eastern Folk Myths do not prove a super-natural being.
Just places and people and a naive universal creation theory.
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@Sidewalker
Three major ones being
- Lack of evidence
- Epistemic impossibility of proving an infinite being
- Evidential and logical problem of evil
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@Public-Choice
Public-Choice wrote: You will argue the Christian God does command Christians to vote against LGBTQ+ rights.Stephen wrote:I will argue anything where and when ever I believe their is a genuine argument. But I don't believe I have ever said - "god commands that Christians vote against LGBTQ+ rights".What I have said is that the god of the bible finds homosexuals and homosexuality an "abomination" and that they should be "put to death".. You would know this if you had been following this thread..... or have read your bible.You seemed to be agreeing with Geon's statement here, were you not?
Then you cannot read.
I am not agreeing with anything. I posed him/her a question.
@Gion wrote: personally-maybe its just me idk, "disagreeing" with somethin' like sexuality or gender is usually equivalent with voting against their rights and such? for example, hurtin' gay people by votin' against legalizing gay marriage or hurtin' trans people by votin' for trans genocide.#9Stephen Wrote: Well isn't that what the god of Christians promotes, encourages and commands? #11
It looks to me like Gion didn't get back to me with a reply.
So I will ask you the same question I posed to Gion following the statement he made, and a question s/he asked HERE> #9
Does the god of Christians promote, encourage command - Gion wrote: "for example, hurtin' gay people by votin' against legalizing gay marriage or hurtin' trans people by votin' for trans genocide"? #9
I understand it may be slightly difficult for you to keep up with any thread longer than 10 posts, so you take your time.
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@Sidewalker
I've read the Bible, please provide the verses that say it is a sin.
Leviticus 18:22: "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."
Are you saying your sexual orientation was a choice? You could have chosen to be gay?
Yes, people can choose their sexual preference. Not their personal sexual preference (what they would like to be) but their sexual preference when it comes to whom they are attracted to.
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@YouFound_Lxam
.
YouFound_Lxam, that is easily being Bible dumber than Miss Tradesecret,
IF YOU DON'T RESPOND TO THIS POST TO REFUTE IT, THEN I WILL TAKE IT FOR GRANTED THAT YOU AGREE WITH IT, UNDERSTOOD BIBLE STUPID TROLL?
YOUR EXACT QUOTE TO ME: “Brother D. is a troll, and that is why I have decided to stop replying to him.“
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8377/post-links/363322
YOUR EXACT QUOTE TO ME NOW: “If you have any problems with what I am saying, then you can challenge me to a debate on it.”
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8377/post-links/363674
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8377/post-links/363322
YOUR EXACT QUOTE TO ME NOW: “If you have any problems with what I am saying, then you can challenge me to a debate on it.”
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/8377/post-links/363674
As shown above, YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE! Understood Bible stupid troll? Have you forgotten in what our serial killer Jesus thought about hypocrites like YOU?Jesus despised hypocrites like you now present, way to go YouFound_Lxam in once again going directly against Jesus!
“You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’” (Matthew 15:7-9)
“And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.” (Matthew 6:16)
“But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites?” (Matthew 22:18)
“You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: “‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’” (Matthew 15:7-9)
“And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.” (Matthew 6:16)
“But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites?” (Matthew 22:18)
NEXT PSEUDO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE STUPID TROLL LIKE “YOUFOUND_LXAM” THAT GOES AGAINST JESUS IN BECOMING A HYPOCRITE, WILL BE … ?
.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I've read the Bible, please provide the verses that say it is a sin.Leviticus 18:22: "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."
That's from the Old Testament, is there anything from the New Testament that provides this guidance to Christians.
Are you saying your sexual orientation was a choice? You could have chosen to be gay?Yes, people can choose their sexual preference. Not their personal sexual preference (what they would like to be) but their sexual preference when it comes to whom they are attracted to.
So you chose to be heterosexual, it could have gone either way. Did the Bible help you decide?
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@Sidewalker
SidewalkerI've read the Bible, please provide the verses that say it is a sin.YouFound_LxamLeviticus 18:22: "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."SidewalkerThat's from the Old Testament, is there anything from the New Testament that provides this guidance to Christians.
You keep telling us you know your bible very well. Try reading Corinthians, Acts , 1 Timothy, Romans. Or will you forever need spoon feeding, like that other thick bible dunce the Reverend Tradesecret who tells us often about his own sexual deviances and his own homosexual experimentations?
Here>>#104
They are so alike aren't they, the Reverend and YouFound_Lxam? It's Hard to tell them apart at times, just lately.
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@Sidewalker
That's from the Old Testament, is there anything from the New Testament that provides this guidance to Christians.
Romans 1:18-32:
"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them."
So you chose to be heterosexual, it could have gone either way. Did the Bible help you decide?
Yes, I guess if I was attracted to men instead of women, then it could have gone either way.
The bible leads me to the righteous path. I have always been heterosexual. To assume the Bible helped me decide, is also assuming that I was confused about my sexual preference, which I have never been confused about.
You keep telling us you know your bible very well. Try reading Corinthians, Acts , 1 Timothy, Romans. Or will you forever need spoon feeding,
None of the passages you are referring to refer to “Homosexuality” in the New Testament.
The word homosexual was not even coined until the 19th century
and the various New Testament translations of the word homosexual that were inserted after 1946 are agenda
driven at best.
The two words that are commonly translated into the word
“homosexual” are the Koine Greek words "malakoi" and
"arsenokoitai”. "Malakoi"
literally means "soft" or "fine" and in fact, the Bible
translates the word “malakoi” in both Matthew 11:8 and in Luke 7:25 into the
word "fine" in reference to clothing. In the early Christian church the word “malakoi” was interpreted as
referring to people who were "soft" or tentative in their faith or
sometimes to people that were "lazy". In that era various
non-Biblical uses of the word “Malakoi” were commonly a reference to people that
were "lazy". If Paul had intended to refer to homosexuality he would
have used the word "paiderasste", which is the Koine Greek word for
homosexual. The other two prevalent
languages in those days, Hebrew and Aramaic, don’t even have a word for the
term homosexual because early Jews believed that all people were born
heterosexual and they did not understand alternative forms of sexuality.
The other Greek word which is found in Paul's letters and is
commonly translated into “homosexual” in the New Testament, is "arsenokoitai". Prior
to the subject twentieth century translations, the word
"arsenokoitai" had never been encountered, and therefore must have
been translated into “homosexual” on an agenda driven basis. It has since been
encountered in several other ancient texts and in those contexts; translation
of "arsenokoitai" into the word “homosexual” makes no sense. Most “real” scholars (without an
agenda) believe that Paul was speaking about "softness" of faith with
the use "Malakoi", his contention was most likely that being
tentative in your commitment to the Lord was an abomination.
Even if you do translate Paul's words into a condemnation of
homosexuality, and you have to really want to I think, Paul stated quite
explicitly that he was offering only his opinions in his letters "I have
no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion..." And in Paul's opinion,
nobody should marry, and women should always wear a veil too. How many of you
who reference the Bible to condemn homosexuality also believe that God mandated
that we should not marry and that women should always wear veils?
Historically speaking, at some time or another, Paul's
writings have been taken out of context to support the oppression of
practically every minority on God's green earth, including Jews, children,
women, blacks, slaves, politicians, divorced people, convicts, pro choice
people, Native Americans, homosexuals, bisexuals, transsexuals, religious
reformers, the mentally ill, and the list goes on and on….OK, so maybe
politician deserve it...but that's it :)
Let’s also remember that when Paul wrote these letters, he
was writing about Jesus Christ and Christ never said a single word about homosexuality,
not one word. He did say that we are all loved, valued, redeemed, and counted
as precious by God, no matter how we might be judged by a prejudiced world.
Another thing he did was tell us not to judge others, and that is not a matter
of translation, it is very clear that he said that over and over again.
There is no honest case that can be made for the contention
so often stated on these boards that “God said homosexuality is a sin”. That
tactic of supporting a prejudicial agenda is not based on an honest translation
of the New Testament and it is not based on anything Jesus said or did.
Love is love; it doesn't fit into neat little
categories in spite of what so many people want to believe. What the Bible
teaches is that Love conquers all prejudice and overcomes all divisions among
mankind. There is nothing “unnatural” about a shared love between two
consensual adults if that experience brings both partners into a fuller state
of being, and there is no mandate against adult consensual homosexuality in the
Bible.
You keep telling us you know your bible very well. Try reading Corinthians, Acts , 1 Timothy, Romans. Or will you forever need spoon feeding, like that other thick bible dunce the Reverend Tradesecret who tells us often about his own sexual deviances and his own homosexual experimentations?
That said, those posts in the other thread sexualizing your mother, that is unnatural as hell, even if it's consensual between you and your mother, it's wrong, it's creepy, and it's perverted.
like that other thick bible dunce the Reverend Tradesecret who tells us often about his own sexual deviances and his own homosexual experimentations?
You spend a lot of time diverting to Tradesecret, I really hope you don't think that justifies your abnormal feelings about your mother.
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@Sidewalker
The word homosexual was not even coined until the 19th century and the various New Testament translations of the word homosexual that were inserted after 1946 are agenda driven at best.
So, homosexuality didn't exist until the 19th century?
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@YouFound_Lxam
So you chose to be heterosexual, it could have gone either way. Did the Bible help you decide?Yes, I guess if I was attracted to men instead of women, then it could have gone either way.The bible leads me to the righteous path. I have always been heterosexual. To assume the Bible helped me decide, is also assuming that I was confused about my sexual preference, which I have never been confused about.
If it wasn't a choice for you, then why do you think it's a choice for gay people?
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@Sidewalker
SidewalkerI've read the Bible, please provide the verses that say it is a sin.YouFound_LxamLeviticus 18:22: "Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable."SidewalkerThat's from the Old Testament, is there anything from the New Testament that provides this guidance to Christians.Stephen wrote: You keep telling us you know your bible very well. Try reading Corinthians, Acts , 1 Timothy, Romans. Or will you forever need spoon feeding, like that other thick bible dunce the Reverend Tradesecret who tells us often about his own sexual deviances and his own homosexual experimentations?Here>>#104,None of the passages you are referring to refer to “Homosexuality” in the New Testament.
But they do, and I didn't refer to the " passages", I only pointed out the NT biblical books which reference the "abomination" that homosexuals and homosexuality are to your god.
You can play your weak semantics all day long but when the bible referrers to what a sinful "ABOMINATION" of "men lying with men AS THEY WOULD A WOMAN" is, there can be no misunderstanding of what is meant. You are the bible dunce that needs spoon feeding every chapter and verse that you are far too bone idle and far to illiterate to research for yourself even when pointed in the right direction.
Why not ask the Reverend Tradesecret for some private tuition. He is highly qualified and accredited in all things theological and biblical and he has direct and personal experience in the "abomination" that god referrers to " men lying with men as one would a woman"?
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@Sidewalker
Even if one is choosing what one wants,
Is it not still a choice?
Hm,
Or to put it another way,
I suppose you might mean sexual orientation,
In the same way as pain, hunger, arousal,
An involuntary reaction, reflex,
But pain tolerance can grow,
Hunger can be mitigated,
Arousal can be controlled.
Whether by mechanical means,
Or habituation.
. . .
I don't mean any of this as negative towards homosexuals,
I just disagree with the argument that sexuality is not alterable, generally speaking.
I'm not saying homosexuals should not be homosexual,
Or that it's a finger snap.
Depression, anger, happiness, kindness, are controllable,
But some people still find such difficult to control.
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@Sidewalker
SidewalkerISo you chose to be heterosexual, it could have gone either way. Did the Bible help you decide?YouFound_LxamLYes, I guess if I was attracted to men instead of women, then it could have gone either way.The bible leads me to the righteous path. I have always been heterosexual. To assume the Bible helped me decide, is also assuming that I was confused about my sexual preference, which I have never been confused about.SidewalkerIIf it wasn't a choice for you, then why do you think it's a choice for gay people?
FM! that question has been asked and answered already, twice? Are you that desperate for conversation that you have to plagiarise questions that others have already asked and answers already given? 🤦♂️
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@Lemming
Even if one is choosing what one wants,Is it not still a choice?
I didn't choose my orientation, did you choose yours? Could you choose to change your orientation? I could not.
Hm,Or to put it another way,I suppose you might mean sexual orientation,In the same way as pain, hunger, arousal,An involuntary reaction, reflex,
I just don't think I could choose to be gay, and I assume gay people can't choose to be heterosexual. Whenever someone who says being gay is a choice is asked if they chose their orientation, they always say no, always. Not once has someone said it could have gone either way for them, and yet, they insist it could have gone either way for a gay person, and they chose to be gay.
But pain tolerance can grow,Hunger can be mitigated,Arousal can be controlled.
And you could be aroused by a man?
Whether by mechanical means,Or habituation.. . .I don't mean any of this as negative towards homosexuals,I just disagree with the argument that sexuality is not alterable, generally speaking.
How would you go about altering your sexuality? What do you think you could do to become gay?
I'm not saying homosexuals should not be homosexual,Or that it's a finger snap.Depression, anger, happiness, kindness, are controllable,But some people still find such difficult to control.
I have a very bad visceral reaction to considering having sex with a man, I'm not saying homosexuals should not be homosexual either, but for me, ewwww, and I think that is the source of such prejudice against gay people, we think the ewwww applies to them, but I presume they think ewwww when they try to imagine sex with the opposite sex.
Whenever I see two men being intimate on TV I say ewwww, my wife then accuses me of being homophobic, I don't think I am, but I do have that visceral reaction, that's how I know I couldn't have chosen to be gay. Assuming the same applies to gay people, I don't think they could choose to be straight if they have the same ewwww response to thinking about it.
The trick is don't think about it, I don't go ewww when I meet a gay person, mostly because I don't think about what it would be like to have sex with them.
I love dogs, but if I think of having sex with one, I go ewwww, seems to me that people who are prejudiced against gay people should just stop thinking about having sex with them.
FM! that question has been asked and answered already, twice? Are you that desperate for conversation that you have to plagiarise questions that others have already asked and answers already given? 🤦♂️
You fantasize having sex with your mother, EEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.
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@Sidewalker
The word homosexual was not even coined until the 19th century and the various New Testament translations of the word homosexual that were inserted after 1946 are agenda driven at best.
So, homosexuality didn't exist until the 19th century?
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@YouFound_Lxam
So, homosexuality didn't exist until the 19th century?
That's correct, the word "homosexuality" did not exist untill the 19th century.
Why not ask the Reverend Tradesecret for some private tuition. He is highly qualified and accredited in all things theological and biblical and he has direct and personal experience in the "abomination" that god referrers to " men lying with men as one would a woman"?
You are almost as obsessed with this Tradesecret as you are with your mom, that's a lot of fantasizing you do.