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@Sidewalker
That's correct, the word "homosexuality" did not exist untill the 19th century.
No, my question was: Did homosexuality itself exist before the 19th century?
Christians don't hate the LGBTQ+ community
Posts
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@Sidewalker
It seems likely to me that many people choose their sexuality,
Though it seems feasible to me that some people might be harder wired than others, nature I mean,
If I choose to watch a bunch of (Insert Kink) erotic media,
Seems likely I might gain an attraction.
Habits in the brain,
Neurons light up through use,
Use it or lose it,
A river digs a channel.
A person gives into anger,
Anger becomes acquired,
A person gives into a kink,
Maybe a kink becomes acquired.
. . .
Certainly I think I 'choose my kinks, practically speaking,
By what I choose to view in the world.
. . ..
I'd agree that one 'does hear many people say they did not 'choose their sexuality,
And I'd agree it'd likely be difficult for a person hard set in their mold, to change.
But this doesn't mean they 'can't,
Some people give up certain addictions easier than other people,
Or cope better with mental disorders than other people,
(I'm not calling homosexuality a mental disorder
It's just that the example of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy comes to my mind easily,
Do to my own experiences working in a psych ward.
. . . .
If I had certain experiences in life,
I 'think I could be aroused by a man,
Might be I'm wrong, or less straight than I think,
But I think it's more my views on Nurture.
. . . .
I suppose to become gay,
Hm,
Spend time with another male, that I thought attractive,
Liked their personality,
In close lonely quarters,
Not have a complex about homosexuality being wrong (Which I'd argue is another example of nurture)
People can learn to like or tolerate other races, sexualities, cultures.
Watch and read a lot of gay media.
There's also the option of brute force,
Phineas Gage,
Tumor in brain,
Medication.
I suppose one could argue these are not 'authentic,
But if the choice is made, the self altered,
Well, just repeat the line above this one.
Also the brute force method creeps me out,
The idea of societies or governments altering people,
Reminds me of my nihilistic beliefs and fears, of what I think we are not.
. . .
Lots of boys and girls used to go ewww at the idea of kissing,
Though one could argue our bodies, minds, experiences were differently developed.
I read an account of a prostitute orangutan once,
I suppose one can argue some people are attracted to animals and others not,
But it 'sounded like it was regular enough in that village,
Nurture, I say again,
The effect of environment, culture.
One might argue that the Spartans had more homosexuals,
But I don't really know if that's 'true.
One could argue that some were heterosexuals, 'in homosexual relationships, against their nature and/or will, peer pressure and what,
But my point is that nature doesn't determine 'outcome by itself,
Nor do people always 'desire their nature,
Example of the easily addicted and drugs again.
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@YouFound_Lxam
That's correct, the word "homosexuality" did not exist untill the 19th century.No, my question was: Did homosexuality itself exist before the 19th century?
I'm not THAT old, but I would assume that yes, it existed before the 19th century.
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@Sidewalker
I'm not THAT old, but I would assume that yes, it existed before the 19th century.
Ok, so if it existed before the 19th century, we could safely assume, that people had a name for the practice of homosexual acts or being homosexual in general. It wasn't the word homosexual, so what was it?
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@YouFound_Lxam
I'm not THAT old, but I would assume that yes, it existed before the 19th century.Ok, so if it existed before the 19th century, we could safely assume, that people had a name for the practice of homosexual acts or being homosexual in general. It wasn't the word homosexual, so what was it?
Hebrew and Aramaic had no word for it, Paul wrote in Koine
Greek, and if he had intended to refer to the practice of homosexuality, he
would have used the word "paiderasste".
The fact is, there is no specific mandate against homosexuality in the Bible, and it does not say it is a sin.
The fact is, there is no specific mandate against homosexuality in the Bible, and it does not say it is a sin.
What is clear is that Christ never said a single word about homosexuality, not one word. What He did do is tell us not to judge others, and he did that over and over again.
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@Sidewalker
The fact is, there is no specific mandate against homosexuality in the Bible, and it does not say it is a sin.
Except for this one:
If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13, NASB)
Oh, and this one:
‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22 NASB95)
AND this one:
and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, (1 Timothy 1:10, NASB95)
Oh, AND this one:
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, (1 Corinthians 6:9, BSB)
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@YouFound_Lxam
I'm not THAT old, but I would assume that yes, it existed before the 19th century.Ok, so if it existed before the 19th century, we could safely assume, that people had a name for the practice of homosexual acts or being homosexual in general. It wasn't the word homosexual, so what was it?
God did. God called it and "abomination".
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@Sidewalker
What is clear is that Christ never said a single word about homosexuality, not one word. What He did do is tell us not to judge others, and he did that over and over again.
Jesus also said he hadn't come to change the law but to "fulfil it" And the penalty for homosexuality was death.
There again , Jesus was far too occupied with gathering an army to help him take what he believed was his rightful place as king of the JEWS to be worried about two males hanging out the back of one another.
Maybe when he became king he would have started implementing the law for such a sinful abomination.
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@Sidewalker
You can choose to do whatever you want to do.
Just as you could choose to do whatever you don't want to do.
Jesus also said he hadn't come to change the law but to "fulfil it" And the penalty for homosexuality was death.There again , Jesus was far too occupied with gathering an army to help him take what he believed was his rightful place as king of the JEWS to be worried about two males hanging out the back of one another.Maybe when he became king he would have started implementing the law for such a sinful abomination.
Stephen and his boyfriend Brother D think that if they say really stupid shit about Christianity that it makes Christianity look stupid, but that isn't how it works.
When you say stupid shit it makes you look like a stupid shit.
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@Public-Choice
The fact is, there is no specific mandate against homosexuality in the Bible, and it does not say it is a sin.Except for this one:If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13, NASB)Oh, and this one:‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22 NASB95)
Except for the consensus among Biblical Scholars is
that neither of these passages was referring to homosexuality as the term is
used today, in context, they were prohibiting the common practice of intercourse
with male shrine prostitutes at the temples of pagan goddesses.
Oh, and the ancient Hebrews who wrote the Bible did not even have a word for Homosexuality, there is no evidence that the culture understood alternative forms of sexuality.
Oh, and the ancient Hebrews who wrote the Bible did not even have a word for Homosexuality, there is no evidence that the culture understood alternative forms of sexuality.
AND this one:and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, (1 Timothy 1:10, NASB95)Oh, AND this one:Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to or perform homosexual acts, (1 Corinthians 6:9, BSB)
AND, as already mentioned, homosexuality was added to these passages in the mid-1900s, originally
they had nothing to do with homosexuality.
Oh, AND all of the references to homosexuality were added to the Bible by people
with an agenda.
But hey, prejudice is a matter of personal disposition, you don’t really need to use the Bible to support bigotry anyway.
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@Sidewalker
Well, here's another example.
In Genisis, it talks about the creation.
During this story, he talks about man, and woman.
God made men to be with women. No exceptions.
Why would God allow men to be with men, if he didn't create us to be that way in the first place. It is unnatural. It is against Gods creation.
So, you can use semantics to fight back what those verses mean. But the fact of the matter is that it is a sin in the Bible, and it is shown as a sin.
It is very prominent in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is another way to show the sins of homosexuality.
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@Sidewalker
prejudice is a matter of personal disposition, you don’t really need to use the Bible to support bigotry anyway.
Well surely your all caring and loving god wouldn't command the death penalty for two male best friends sharing a fkn tent, would he?
You are scraping the barrel sunshine.
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.
I think the bold underline is clearly speaking of homosexuality and homosexuals, no matter how you decide to paint it. And YOUR GOD HATES BOTH!
Except for the consensus among Biblical Scholars is that neither of these passages was referring to homosexuality as the term is used today
Which biblical scholars would they be?
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@Sidewalker
Stupid shit is green with pink spots.
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@Stephen
And YOUR GOD HATES BOTH!
He hates the sin, not the person.
Just to clarify.
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@YouFound_Lxam
If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.I think the bold underline is clearly speaking of homosexuality and homosexuals, no matter how you decide to paint it. And YOUR GOD HATES BOTH!Well surely your all caring and loving god wouldn't command the death penalty for two male best friends sharing a fkn tent, would he?He hates the sin, not the person.Just to clarify.
Don't make me laugh.🤣 FFS face it! He hates the homosexual that commits the sin of homosexuality and sentences them to death for their "abomination".
prejudice is a matter of personal disposition, you don’t really need to use the Bible to support bigotry anyway.Well surely your all caring and loving god wouldn't command the death penalty for two male best friends sharing a fkn tent, would he?You are scraping the barrel sunshine.If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.I think the bold underline is clearly speaking of homosexuality and homosexuals, no matter how you decide to paint it. And YOUR GOD HATES BOTH!
Leviticus 18:7 - “’Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her
Except for the consensus among Biblical Scholars is that neither of these passages was referring to homosexuality as the term is used todayWhich biblical scholars would they be?
Well, it certainly isn't you and your troll boyfriend Brother D.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Well, here's another example.In Genisis, it talks about the creation.During this story, he talks about man, and woman.God made men to be with women. No exceptions.
So sayeth the YouFound_Lxam? Genesis does not say that, you did.
Genesis 1:31 - And God saw every
thing that he had made, and behold, it was very good. (EVERY THING that he had made, no exceptions)
1 Peter 2:17 - Honour all men. Love the brotherhood.
Fear God. Honour the king. (ALL men, no
exceptions)
Why would God allow men to be with men, if he didn't create us to be that way in the first place. It is unnatural. It is against Gods creation.
So sayeth the YouFound_Lxam? The Bible does not say that, you did.
So, you can use semantics to fight back what those verses mean.
You mean to say your mind is made up and you don’t
really care what the Bible actually says about it.
But the fact of the matter is that it is a sin in the Bible, and it is shown as a sin.
Nope, it is not shown to be a sin in the bible.
It is very prominent in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. It is another way to show the sins of homosexuality.
Nope, homosexuality is not mentioned in the story of Sodom
and Gomorrah.
I don’t know who’s feeding you this crap, but if you want to know what the Bible says, maybe you should try actually reading it. Till then, I’ll try to summarize it for you:
Galatians 5:14 - For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself".
You can’t love your neighbor as you love yourself unless you recognize that his sexual orientation is to him, what your sexual orientation is to you.
Hey, you can be as prejudiced as you want, it's no skin off my back, but don't try to pretend you got it from the Bible.
If you are looking for support, you could try the Westboro Baptist Church.
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@Sidewalker
While I can understand where your interpretation is coming from,
I also understand where YouFound_Lxam's interpretation is coming from.
Either interpretation comes from the Bible though, I'd argue.
I think it weakens your argument to insult others though,
I'd argue such becomes more about comforting oneself, than convincing another or watchers.
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@Sidewalker
Nope, homosexuality is not mentioned in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Ezekiel 16:50
2 Peter 2:7
Jude 7
So sayeth the YouFound_Lxam? The Bible does not say that, you did.
Genesis 2:23-25
" The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”
24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.
25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame."
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@YouFound_Lxam
All bullshit written by people who thought they were important.
But the alphabet soup surely hates all religious groups.
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@Sidewalker
Except for the consensus among Biblical Scholars is that neither of these passages was referring to homosexuality as the term is used today
Which biblical scholars would they be?
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@Sidewalker
What is clear is that Christ never said a single word about homosexuality, not one word. What He did do is tell us not to judge others, and he did that over and over again.
Jesus also said he hadn't come to change the law but to "fulfil it" And the penalty for homosexuality was death.
Maybe if he had became " king of a kingdom that would last forever" AS PROMISED BY GOD , he would have started implementing GODS law for such a sinful abomination the minute he sat on the throne.
But instead of a crown, a throne and a sceptre, is all he actually did inherit was two bits of wood three nails with a view over-looking the olive groves of the Kidron Valley.
Get over it. You god will kill for the least of reasons, and homosexuality is one of them.
Lets not forget, your killer god murdered all of Job's 10 children simply for a bet.
abomination
noun
- a thing that causes disgust or loathing.
- a feeling of hatred.
- atrocity
- disgrace
- horror
- obscenity
- outrage
- curse
- torment
- evil
- crime
- monstrosity
- violation
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@YouFound_Lxam
Nope, homosexuality is not mentioned in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.Ezekiel 16:502 Peter 2:7Jude 7So sayeth the YouFound_Lxam? The Bible does not say that, you did.Genesis 2:23-25" The man said,“This is now bone of my bonesand flesh of my flesh;she shall be called ‘woman,’for she was taken out of man.”24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame."
You win kiddie.
You have convinced me that the Bible is actually a guide to which groups of people we should oppress, marginalise and discriminate against.
Now be a good little Trumper and tell me what other groups of people God wants me to hate, I don't want to miss any.
Stephen,
Are you saying the abominable snowman is gay?
OK, but why the desperation?
"Methinks the lady doth protesteth too much"
Stephen,
So angry, so desperate, so alone.
Maybe I can help.
Send me your tough shit ticket and I'll punch it for you.
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@Sidewalker
You win kiddie.You have convinced me that the Bible is actually a guide to which groups of people we should oppress, marginalise and discriminate against.Now be a good little Trumper and tell me what other groups of people God wants me to hate, I don't want to miss any.
God hates sin.
Not people.
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@Sidewalker
Maybe you should do more research on the Bible, so that you can actually argue this stuff......ok "kiddie"?
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@Sidewalker
Hebrew and Aramaic had no word for homosexual.
And by the same token they had no word for coma or unconscious or resuscitation . So Christians invented "resurrection". I suppose it worked on the illiterate superstitious thicko's back then and still does in your own case. 🤣