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@Best.Korea
He is still the dear leader of Korea.
I wouldn't call him dear.
The United States of America is The Best and Most Successful Nation by Far
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@YouFound_Lxam
I would. Best leader in the world, leading the politics with surreal ability in weapons.
I would. Best leader in the world, leading the politics with surreal ability in weapons.
Best. Korea, again you have proved your intelligence in this topic very low.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Where is your intelligence?
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@Best.Korea
Where is your intelligence?
I have shown you again and again, yet you have yet to even listen to any of my claims, you just wait for your turn to talk.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Why do you think you have shown anything?
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@Best.Korea
....Dude.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Is there something you misunderstood about the question?
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@YouFound_Lxam
I agree with this to a point. The government is very dysfunctional as of right now and it is very corrupt. What my argument is, is that even though America has its flaws, it is still the most successful and powerful country in the world.
The dysfunctionality resides in the liberal founding of America. The founding fathers were not Christian, and many of them were fond of the barbaric revolution in France. This has set America on the course of liberal destruction.
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@Dr.Franklin
"Whatever their beliefs, the Founders came from similar religious backgrounds. Most were Protestants. The largest number were raised in the three largest Christian traditions of colonial America—Anglicanism (as in the cases of John Jay, George Washington, and Edward Rutledge), Presbyterianism (as in the cases of Richard Stockton and the Rev. John Witherspoon), and Congregationalism (as in the cases of John Adams and Samuel Adams). Other Protestant groups included the Society of Friends (Quakers), the Lutherans, and the Dutch Reformed. Three Founders—Charles Carroll and Daniel Carroll of Maryland and Thomas Fitzsimmons of Pennsylvania—were of Roman Catholic heritage."
Most of them weren't Christian yes, but most of them were Deists, meaning they believed in a higher being.
and many of them were fond of the barbaric revolution in France
How do you know this?
This has set America on the course of liberal destruction.
Then I ask you, how has America gone from the lowest part of the British empire to the most powerful and successful country in the world in just the span of 245 years.
I mean countries like China, and India have been around for much longer, but we are still the most powerful, and successful? That means was doing something right.
And the USA was founded on Judeo-Christian values:
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@thett3
It seems odd to me to be a China maximalist right now of all times. The Chinese people are intelligent and industrious but the system they've chosen to run their society is leading them to ruin.
- As long as don't democratize, they will be just fine. I am not a China maximalist, they too will have to face collapse sooner. But not before the West.
Even beyond the self inflicted demographic disaster caused by the one child policy the CCP has demonstrated time and time again that it is beyond incompetent--see their current zero-covid policy that's driving their economy into ruin with endless arbitrary lockdowns.
- Real world measures across the board say otherwise. China's success rate has never been seen in any Western country ever. Even the peak of US success during & following WWII doesn't come close. US Fake News has been calling for China's imminent collapse 15 years now. Maybe you should start giving up on that fantasy now. But you're right, population collapse will be the undoing of the rising country, not any time soon though. They may not last long enough to dominate the 21st century, but the US will last a lot less for sure.
Silicon Valley in the USA is where most cutting edge tech work is taking place. You don't have to like that fact, but that's simply how it is.
- The statement may be true 10 years ago. It's fantasy today. What cutting edge tech exactly is Silicon Valley dominating? Literally all the new tech is dominated by China today, by an increasingly wider margin. Silicon Valley recently had an edge on Quantum Computing, but that has long disappeared since last year. Much of the research & the best research today in S&E happens in China, while the US is lagging far behind. China caught up to the US in scientific output back in 2018. Since, the gap between China & the US in S&E has widen so much that it's almost as great as the gap between the US & Germany. China today outpaces the States by a factor of 2 to 4 in most S&E fields, it's not even a competition anymore. In fact, the US's contribution to S&E today is more comparable to that of the war torn Middle East. According to SCImago ranking, here are some stats on the global contribution of China – USA – the Middle East respectively in various S&E fields:
Chemistry 29.7% – 9.8% – 7.9%
Computer Science 24.7% – 10.4% – 10.3%
Energy 30% – 7.9% – 10%
Engineering 29.9% – 9.5% – 9.9%
Material Science 31.5% – 9.9% – 9.4%
Mathematics 22.6% – 9.6% – 13%
Physics 25.4% – 11.7% – 8.3%
- Before long, the US will lag behind the Middle East as well. On that note, the US obliterate China when it comes to Social Science & Humanities, by a factor of 3. Gotta get those gender studies degrees...
This is actually a sign of strength for the US system, which is my entire point. It may or may not be good for the US people but a system that poaches the best minds from around the world and shows no signs of slowing down isn't a weak one that's about to die. Some of those workers spy for the old country which is a problem but that's about it.
- You missed the part where a quarter of researchers in technical S&E fields in the US are themselves Chinese. "no slowing down"?? The US peaked back in 2012... Poaching the best talents is not a bad thing per se, but relying on foreign talent is. It's a huge handicap if the overwhelming majority of your highly skilled professionals are foreigners, especially without a solid incentive to keep them or make them loyal except by sheer currency advantages. It's a circular cycle: dominate technologically, to dominate militarily, to impose global institutions (like SWIFT, IMF, Petrodollar, Reserve Currency...etc), to persuade best talents, to dominate technologically. This can not be sustained if any element of the cycle is undermined. If the USD, for instance, ceases to be the global reserve currency (which is already happening), then almost all the incentive of foreign scientists to stay let alone come will also cease. Why bother going elsewhere when you can stay in your home country & get paid the same while doing the same for your nation.
I think you're letting your moral outrage at the US color your views here.
- On the contrary. Your rosy view of the US is clouding your judgement about reality to the point of denial. It's not too late to save your country, start by recognizing reality.
I mean this respectfully because I enjoy seeing your perspective around here, but to compare the working conditions for people in the US to migrant laborers in Qatar is just ludicrous.
- Yet, it's still a fact. I have to remind you as an American that the rest of the world is not bound by your propaganda. The narrative in your mainstream media about the world (working conditions in Gulf states or China or wherever) may serve as a tool of appeasement for your average Joe, but it's unrealistic to the extreme, & does not work elsewhere. "we know better" "we do better" are only fantasies in the Western imagination, for self-appeasement. Western identity itself is based on 'we are better'. This is childish nonsense. Communists used to do that too.
The minimum wage in the US is not an accurate metric at all, although I can understand how it creates a false impression for people who don't live here. It hasn't been updated in so long that it's an anachronism, virtually nobody makes the minimum wage and about half of those who do are kids working their first jobs. Only 1.5% of people make minimum wage: https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2020/home.htm although even this is an overestimate because it includes people making below that as their hourly rate--but these people work jobs like bartending or waiting tables where the hourly rate is allowed to be extremely low because they make far far more than that in tips. Less than a million workers actually made minimum wage in 2020. A more realistic metric is median household income which is $71,000 as of 2021 https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2022/demo/p60-276.html#:~:text=Real%20median%20household%20income%20was,and%20Table%20A%2D1) Being poor anywhere sucks but I see no evidence that life for the US lower class is notably bad, certainly not worse than a place like the Gulf States...that just seems absurd.
- I can't see how this is helping your case. We both understand what minimum wage means. Of course not all workers must earn minimum wage... in fact, most generally don't. The average salary of waiters, for instance, in Qatar is higher ($30k). It's still a fact that workers in the US do not enjoy the same benefits they do in Gulf states, including healthcare, accommodation, education, paid flights & world class amenities & infrastructure. We are not even talking about citizen here, they are migrant workers. – I am also not sure why you're bringing up household income. In case you didn't know, Gulf states are filthy rich. The average household income of immigrants in Qatar, for instance, was $144k back in 2013 (in PPP terms). Native Qataris earned on average 3x that. In fact, remittance per capita in Gulf states is by far the highest in the world. If the workers aren't earning good wages, how come they are sending all that money out.
There's a reason people are clamoring to get here even if the jobs available to them are doing things like washing dishes or cleaning office buildings
- Yes, it's called USD. 1 USD gets you 2x to 5x more stuff in most developing countries. Getting paid in USD affords you more while earning less.
There are ways in which American working standards could be improved. We work longer hours relative to Europe (although not to the rest of the world, especially Asia), some basic protections that should be no-brainers like paid maternity leave aren't guaranteed by law, but pay is not one of the complaints American's get to have compared to anywhere else.
- Maybe you should start by implementing Gulf states standards, by offering things like healthcare, accommodation, & education.
The comparison to Turkey is just bizarre given the complete economic meltdown going on there right now. Not a system to emulate.
- I wouldn't be too sure... Turkey has achieved in 20 years what the US hasn't in a 100, experiencing a 4x GDP growth in barely two decades & becoming a global leader in many sectors, like Healthcare, Tourism, Energy, High-tech...etc in mere few years. Let's see, Turkey's exports last year surged by 33%, knowing it hasn't slowed in 2020 & is still hitting records every month of this year. GDP growth was at 11%, one of the highest in the world, while also being among the two countries to expand during 2020 (along with China), where the Western world suffered extreme contraction . Its industrial sector is only second to Germany in Europe, & the 1st in the Middle East. It is expected to overtake France & the UK in Real GDP by next year, after overtaking Italy, Mexico & Korea the past couple of years, to settle at 8th place globally. – Regardless, a minimum wage earner in Turkey still enjoys a vastly superior lifestyle than his counterpart in the US.
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@Dr.Franklin
The dysfunctionality resides in the liberal founding of America. The founding fathers were not Christian, and many of them were fond of the barbaric revolution in France. This has set America on the course of liberal destruction.
- Do you have any ideas on how to reset the country into the right path?
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@YouFound_Lxam
Then I ask you, how has America gone from the lowest part of the British empire to the most powerful and successful country in the world in just the span of 245 years.
- A whole lotta luck to be honest, coupled with abundant resources, population surge & two whole oceans of buffer zone. The Islamic Civilizations dominated the world for 10 centuries, & achieved it in a span of a couple decades. You have another 9 centuries to go... we'll see then.
I mean countries like China, and India have been around for much longer, but we are still the most powerful, and successful? That means was doing something right.
- Civilizations rise & fall. The Middle East existed even much much longer, & dominated for much of History, & will dominate again shortly.
And the USA was founded on Judeo-Christian values:
- The US (& the West in general) are founded on a single principle: maximum immediate benefit, at the expense of all else. You sacrificed your legacy for present gratification. However great your lives were, your grandchildren will suffer the consequences. As to the good bits in the US (& the West), they all originate in Islam. "Judeo-Christian values" is a made up revisionist fantasy to deny those origins.
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@Yassine
The statement may be true 10 years ago. It's fantasy today. What cutting edge tech exactly is Silicon Valley dominating? Literally all the new tech is dominated by China today, by an increasingly wider margin. Silicon Valley recently had an edge on Quantum Computing, but that has long disappeared since last year. Much of the research & the best research today in S&E happens in China, while the US is lagging far behind. China caught up to the US in scientific output back in 2018. Since, the gap between China & the US in S&E has widen so much that it's almost as great as the gap between the US & Germany. China today outpaces the States by a factor of 2 to 4 in most S&E fields, it's not even a competition anymore. In fact, the US's contribution to S&E today is more comparable to that of the war torn Middle East. According to SCImago ranking, here are some stats on the global contribution of China – USA – the Middle East respectively in various S&E fields:Chemistry 29.7% – 9.8% – 7.9%Computer Science 24.7% – 10.4% – 10.3%Energy 30% – 7.9% – 10%Engineering 29.9% – 9.5% – 9.9%Material Science 31.5% – 9.9% – 9.4%Mathematics 22.6% – 9.6% – 13%Physics 25.4% – 11.7% – 8.3%- Before long, the US will lag behind the Middle East as well. On that note, the US obliterate China when it comes to Social Science & Humanities, by a factor of 3. Gotta get those gender studies degrees...
This seems to just be counting the amount of papers that come out of universities? Maybe I'm wrong--I've never heard of this website. If that's the case that doesn't prove anything because quantity =/= quality. The sheer amount of "research" says nothing about if that research is any good.
The claim that "Literally all the new tech is dominated by China today" as if it's not even a competition (even though America is still very very dominant here) is ludicrous. I'm sorry, but it just is. Almost all of the best companies in the world are in the United States, and they keep vacuuming up the worlds talent in addition to the considerable talents of the US native born. I would never say that China is not an impressive civilization, because it of course is. But I view their coming demographic crisis and the potential instability with their system of government as much bigger risks than what the US system which I find to be incredibly stable.
You’ve said both that China is actually the tech giant and the US is lagging far behind and also that the US entices highly skilled workers from all over the world here and that system can’t last. What exactly is it that you think those Silicon Valley engineers brought over from the rest of the world making like $400k are doing exactly, if no cutting edge work is being performed that justifies the cost? Is it just a front to make us look impressive? Why does China feel the need to do large scale industrial espionage on the US, but not the other way around? Your narrative doesn’t square with the actions of people on the ground.
This also isn't really relevant to my point, anyway, although I can't blame you for that. While I'm extremely bearish on China I could be wrong about that and still be right that the US system is not going anywhere and isn't about to collapse even though people think it's going to. My point wasn't to be bragging about how great America is, but just to say it's nowhere near collapsing and will be with us for quite some time. Nothing you've said has given me a reason to change my mind on that.
- I can't see how this is helping your case. We both understand what minimum wage means. Of course not all workers must earn minimum wage... in fact, most generally don't. The average salary of waiters, for instance, in Qatar is higher ($30k). It's still a fact that workers in the US do not enjoy the same benefits they do in Gulf states, including healthcare, accommodation, education, paid flights & world class amenities & infrastructure. We are not even talking about citizen here, they are migrant workers. – I am also not sure why you're bringing up household income. In case you didn't know, Gulf states are filthy rich. The average household income of immigrants in Qatar, for instance, was $144k back in 2013 (in PPP terms). Native Qataris earned on average 3x that. In fact, remittance per capita in Gulf states is by far the highest in the world. If the workers aren't earning good wages, how come they are sending all that money out.
Yes, the gulf states are filthy rich due to having a lot of oil, living standards for the natives are extremely high. But immigrants are almost 90% of the population of Qatar and living standards for the migrant majority is often much lower. The idea that migrant laborers from the poorest, least educated parts of the world have it better than the US working class is unhinged. I assure you they would be clamoring the trade places. You can just read about what life is like for migrant laborers. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jun/01/migrant-guards-in-qatar-still-paid-under-1-an-hour-ahead-of-world-cup
But really the comparison just makes no sense in any case. No other countries can be like the gulf states, the good and the bad, because other economies aren't sitting on more oil than they know what to do with. It's also not a sustainable system since we'll eventually move away from oil.
- On the contrary. Your rosy view of the US is clouding your judgement about reality to the point of denial. It's not too late to save your country, start by recognizing reality.
I hate what the United States has become so much that I'm seriously considering leaving even though my family has been here since the 1600s. Believe me, there's no rose colored glasses here. But it doesn't stop me from seeing what's right in front of me which is that the US is quite clearly pulling away from the rest of the Western world and is in a position to continue dominating for at least the next several decades. It's certainly nowhere near collapse.
- You missed the part where a quarter of researchers in technical S&E fields in the US are themselves Chinese. "no slowing down"?? The US peaked back in 2012... Poaching the best talents is not a bad thing per se, but relying on foreign talent is. It's a huge handicap if the overwhelming majority of your highly skilled professionals are foreigners, especially without a solid incentive to keep them or make them loyal except by sheer currency advantages. It's a circular cycle: dominate technologically, to dominate militarily, to impose global institutions (like SWIFT, IMF, Petrodollar, Reserve Currency...etc), to persuade best talents, to dominate technologically. This can not be sustained if any element of the cycle is undermined. If the USD, for instance, ceases to be the global reserve currency (which is already happening), then almost all the incentive of foreign scientists to stay let alone come will also cease. Why bother going elsewhere when you can stay in your home country & get paid the same while doing the same for your nation.
No, you're missing the point. An immigrant is not a foreigner, at least not according to the US system. That's part of what makes it so sustainable--the people running it couldn't care a whit whether the top companies are staffed and run by natives or by immigrants. The status quo which is a mix of both based on ability is pretty stable. Also the majority of US skilled professionals aren't immigrants--not even close. But the system vacuuming up the worlds galaxy brains is a sign of STRENGTH not weakness. COULD it stop in the future, sure...but go ahead and find me Silicon Valley tier salaries somewhere else. People, including many of the worlds top scientists are voting with their feet.
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@Best.Korea
He is still the dear leader of Korea.
Bragging that your country is led by a manlet isn't nearly the flex you think it is.
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@Sir.Lancelot
He is still the eternal leader of Korea.
Necrocracy + Stratocracy = Eternity
His reign will likely be as short.
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@Sir.Lancelot
No. He eternal.
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@Sir.Lancelot
Best. Korea has no argument; it is just best to ignore him.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Can you show us your argument?
Ok fine, but this is my last argument against you for this topic, since you are too scared to accept a debate.
And also, I am only doing this, because I enjoy it.
Reasons the USA is The Best and Most Successful Nation by Far.
The USA has a well-established and stable political system:
"For that indicator, we provide data for the USA from 1996 to 2021. The average value for the USA during that period was 0.42 points with a minimum of -0.23 points in 2004 and a maximum of 1.08 points in 2000. The latest value from 2021 is 0 points. For comparison, the world average in 2021 based on 194 countries is -0.07 points. See the global rankings for that indicator or use the country comparator to compare trends over time."
"Definition: The index of Political Stability and Absence of Violence/Terrorism measures perceptions of the likelihood that the government will be destabilized or overthrown by unconstitutional or violent means, including politically-motivated violence and terrorism. The index is an average of several other indexes from the Economist Intelligence Unit, the World Economic Forum, and the Political Risk Services, among others."
The US, political system is one of the best in the world. The government is limited, giving rights to the people on how to run the country, which makes the country stable, and less susceptible to riots and civil war outbreaks. There is no other government in the world who is as free and strong as the US government.
The USA has a multicultural society:
"The United States of America, due to its immense size and diverse heritage, has one of the most complex cultural identities in the world. Millions of immigrants from all over the globe have journeyed to America since the Europeans discovered and colonized the land back in the 17th and 18th centuries. The blending of cultural backgrounds and ethnicities in America led to the country becoming known as a “melting pot.” As the third largest country in both area and population, America’s size has enabled the formation of subcultures within the country. These subcultures are often geographical as a result of settlement patterns by non-natives as well as regional weather and landscape differences. While there are countless ways to divide the U.S. into regions, here we have referenced the four regions shown in the map below. People from each region may have different lifestyles, cultural values, business practices and dialects. While there are qualities and values that most Americans commonly share, it is important not to generalize or assume that all Americans think or act the same way."
The US is the most diverse country in the world. Most other countries don't accept refugees, and immigrants like we do, while keeping it the safest country in the world.
The United States of America has been instrumental in the development of international human rights:
"The protection of fundamental human rights was a foundation stone in the establishment of the United States over 200 years ago. Since then, a central goal of U.S. foreign policy has been the promotion of respect for human rights, as embodied in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Supporting democracy not only promotes such fundamental American values as religious freedom and worker rights, but also helps create a more secure, stable, and prosperous global arena in which the United States can advance its national interests. In addition, democracy is the one national interest that helps to secure all the others. Democratically governed nations are more likely to secure the peace, deter aggression, expand open markets, promote economic development, protect American citizens, combat international terrorism and crime, uphold human and worker rights, avoid humanitarian crises and refugee flows, improve the global environment, and protect human health.
The United States uses a wide range of tools to advance a freedom agenda, including bilateral diplomacy, multilateral engagement, foreign assistance, reporting and public outreach, and economic sanctions. The Department of State works with democratic partners, international and regional organizations, nongovernmental organizations, and engaged citizens to support those seeking freedom.
Read more about what specific bureaus are doing to support this policy issue:
Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor (DRL): DRL leads U.S. efforts to promote democracy, to protect human rights and international religious freedom, and to advance labor rights globally. Read more about DRL"
Supporting democracy not only promotes such fundamental American values as religious freedom and worker rights, but also helps create a more secure, stable, and prosperous global arena in which the United States can advance its national interests. In addition, democracy is the one national interest that helps to secure all the others. Democratically governed nations are more likely to secure the peace, deter aggression, expand open markets, promote economic development, protect American citizens, combat international terrorism and crime, uphold human and worker rights, avoid humanitarian crises and refugee flows, improve the global environment, and protect human health.
The United States uses a wide range of tools to advance a freedom agenda, including bilateral diplomacy, multilateral engagement, foreign assistance, reporting and public outreach, and economic sanctions. The Department of State works with democratic partners, international and regional organizations, nongovernmental organizations, and engaged citizens to support those seeking freedom.
Read more about what specific bureaus are doing to support this policy issue:
Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor (DRL): DRL leads U.S. efforts to promote democracy, to protect human rights and international religious freedom, and to advance labor rights globally. Read more about DRL"
The USA is one of the many countries who have made human rights a big deal, and have acted upon that decision, by helping other countries, and protecting their human rights.
The US offers a better quality of life compared to other countries:
"The United States performs well in many dimensions of well-being relative to other countries in the Better Life Index. The United States outperforms the average in income, jobs, education, environmental quality, social connections and life satisfaction. These assessments are based on available selected data."
Money, while it cannot buy happiness, is an important means to achieving higher living standards. In the United States, the average household net-adjusted disposable income per capita is USD 51 147 a year, much more than the OECD average of USD 30 490 a year.
In terms of employment, about 67% of people aged 15 to 64 in the United States have a paid job, slightly above the OECD employment average of 66%. Some 72% of men are in paid work, compared with 62% of women. In the United States, 10% of employees work very long hours in paid work, the same as the OECD average of 10%, with 14% of men working very long hours in paid work compared with 7% of women.
Good education and skills are important requisites for finding a job. In the United States, 92% of adults aged 25-64 have completed upper secondary education, higher than the OECD average of 79%. However, completion varies between men and women, as 91% of men have successfully completed high school compared with 92% of women. In terms of the quality of the education system, the average student scored 495 in reading literacy, maths and science in the OECD's Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA). This score is higher than the OECD average of 488. On average in the United States, girls outperformed boys by 5 points, as the average OECD gap.
In terms of health, life expectancy at birth in the United States is around 79 years, two years lower than the OECD average of 81 years. Life expectancy for women is 81 years, compared with 76 for men. The level of atmospheric PM2.5 – tiny air pollutant particles small enough to enter and cause damage to the lungs – is 7.7 micrograms per cubic meter, below the OECD average of 14 micrograms per cubic meter. In the United States, 88% of people say they are satisfied with the quality of their water, higher than the OECD average of 84%.
Concerning the public sphere, there is a strong sense of community and moderate levels of civic participation in the United States, where 94% of people believe that they know someone they could rely on in time of need, more than the OECD average of 91%. Voter turnout, a measure of citizens' participation in the political process, was 65% during recent elections, lower than the OECD average of 69%. Social and economic status can affect voting rates; voter turnout for the top 20% of the population is an estimated 77% and for the bottom 20% it is an estimated 51%.
When asked to rate their general satisfaction with life on a scale from 0 to 10, Americans gave it a 7 grade on average, higher than the OECD average of 6.7.
The US is No. 1 in military superiority:
"Ranking the total available active military manpower by country, from highest to lowest.
The finalized Global Firepower ranking below utilizes over 50 individual factors to determine a given nation's PowerIndex ('PwrIndx') score with categories ranging from military might and financials to logistical capability and geography.
Our unique, in-house formula allows for smaller, more technologically advanced, nations to compete with larger, lesser-developed ones and special modifiers, in the form of bonuses and penalties, are applied to further refine the annual list. Color arrows indicate year-over-year trend comparison (Increase, Stable, Decline)."
Our unique, in-house formula allows for smaller, more technologically advanced, nations to compete with larger, lesser-developed ones and special modifiers, in the form of bonuses and penalties, are applied to further refine the annual list. Color arrows indicate year-over-year trend comparison (Increase, Stable, Decline)."
"For 2022, United States is ranked 1 of 142 out of the countries considered for the annual GFP review. It holds a PwrIndx* score of 0.0453 (a score of 0.0000 is considered 'perfect'). This entry last updated on 04/09/2022."
Visit this site to see the comparisons of your "dear country" and the USA.
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@thett3
This seems to just be counting the amount of papers that come out of universities? Maybe I'm wrong--I've never heard of this website.
- "just"...?! You would have heard of it if you had any connection to research, it's the IMDb of scientific publications. It also ranks countries & journals based on scientific output.
If that's the case that doesn't prove anything because quantity =/= quality.
- First of all, the ratios are citation based, so quality is already accounted for. Second of all, you are right, quality =/= quantity, except you're assuming the US has better quality... which it doesn't. I have the database downloaded in my computer, the average citation per document in the aforementioned fields is 1.3 – 1.2 – 1.6 , for the US – China – Middle East respectively. China & the US are roughly the same, though lagging behind the Middle East. Regardless, China surpassed the US in top 1% most citable publications back in 2019. That ship has sailed.
The sheer amount of "research" says nothing about if that research is any good.
- Sure, Germany must outpace the US in research then... You keep assuming the US necessarily has the "good" research, forgetting that most researchers in the US are themselves foreigners, & 1/3rd of them Chinese. You don't seem to understand how research works. More publications in a particular subject, means more contribution to it, i.e. a new brick added to the subject's building. You have to be on top to even have the option to add a better brick. If China is producing more research (a LOT more actually) in a subject, it goes without saying that it is leading it. The reality of it is that the US will never be able to catch up, for two reasons: China's scientific output grows by +10% every year, while the US's is shrinking (it peaked in 2012); & China produces several times more STEM graduates every year than the US. The race is over.
The claim that "Literally all the new tech is dominated by China today" as if it's not even a competition (even though America is still very very dominant here) is ludicrous.
- I am curious, what new tech exactly is dominated by the US?! All the expressions of shock & the "ludicrous"s do not change the fact that China is in the REAL WORLD dominating. Take the EV industry for instance, in which the US seems like a leader (Tesla, Elon Musk...). Here is a comparison in global contribution between China & the US, last year (respectively):
Battery manufacturing 79% – 6%
EV manufacturing 58% – 12%
EV car sales 50% – 9%
Commercial EV sales 98% – 0%
EV exports 56% – 12%
=> As you can see, there is no comparison...
I'm sorry, but it just is.
- You can say that until the cows come home, it won't change reality.
Almost all of the best companies in the world are in the United States, and they keep vacuuming up the worlds talent in addition to the considerable talents of the US native born.
- Again, this WAS true in the past. It isn't today. In case you didn't know, there are a LOT more Chinese companies in the Fortune 500 than American. You live in a bubble friend. The largest companies in the world in virtually all industries are Chinese (except in the Insurance industry) -by a large margin, except in IT where the two are about equivalent.
I would never say that China is not an impressive civilization, because it of course is. But I view their coming demographic crisis and the potential instability with their system of government as much bigger risks than what the US system which I find to be incredibly stable.
- All this is bare assertion, with no ground in reality. The US is in a path towards civil war, everybody can see it. As for demographics, the US fertility rates are worse than China's, while China is still urbanizing, thus much further growth is expected. Also, the country has Democracy is the most fragile system that has ever existed. It only works when your enemies can't get to you, once they can you break down like a house of cards.
You’ve said both that China is actually the tech giant and the US is lagging far behind and also that the US entices highly skilled workers from all over the world here and that system can’t last. What exactly is it that you think those Silicon Valley engineers brought over from the rest of the world making like $400k are doing exactly, if no cutting edge work is being performed that justifies the cost? Is it just a front to make us look impressive?
- They are maintaining old tech & contributing a little to the new tech. That's what they are doing. American tech companies still have a monopoly in global markets, which took them half a century to build. But this is merely legacy of past domination, as time goes by old tech will be substituted by newer & newer tech, thus less & less market share for the American companies. Chinese counterparts are generally superior, but they are too recent to dominate global markets. Wechat, for instance, is far superior than any US made social platform, but it isn't about to take over Facebook, since the latter has been around for much longer. It is for this exactly reason that US firm will not maintain leadership in the future.
Why does China feel the need to do large scale industrial espionage on the US, but not the other way around? Your narrative doesn’t square with the actions of people on the ground.
- This just shows that China is superior to the US that it's capable of spying on it while preventing the reverse.
This also isn't really relevant to my point, anyway, although I can't blame you for that. While I'm extremely bearish on China
- Feelings. Reality is elsewhere. Your people keep predicting the imminent fall of China every year, yet the country keep breaking records. Maybe those predictions aren't accurate...
I could be wrong about that and still be right that the US system is not going anywhere and isn't about to collapse even though people think it's going to.
- Take USD away & you shave 3/4th US economy. The US is built to be No 1, it will implode otherwise. Just like a mafia boss, either you're on top or you're nothing.
My point wasn't to be bragging about how great America is, but just to say it's nowhere near collapsing and will be with us for quite some time. Nothing you've said has given me a reason to change my mind on that.
- Well, since you keep ignoring literally everything I say, you can keep believing in that delusion. You have to take yourself away from the 'now' & look at the trends. China's industrial output surpassed the US's in 2007, now it's 3 times larger. In scientific output in S&E in 2018, now it's 3 times larger. The gap will only continue to increase. It's absurd to the extreme to believe the US will catch up to China & reverse the situation. That's simply impossible.
Yes, the gulf states are filthy rich due to having a lot of oil, living standards for the natives are extremely high. But immigrants are almost 90% of the population of Qatar and living standards for the migrant majority is often much lower. The idea that migrant laborers from the poorest, least educated parts of the world have it better than the US working class is unhinged.
- YET, it is a FACT. You refuse to believe it because the indoctrination you've received since your birth doesn't allow you to accept that simple fact. None of this is hard to check. You've probably never been to Qatar, I have. It literally makes the US look like a third world country. Remittance per immigrant population in Qatar is 4x its counterpart in the US (in PPP terms). That means the average immigrant in Qatar sends 4 times as much money back home as the average immigrant in the US. These are FACTS.
I assure you they would be clamoring the trade places. You can just read about what life is like for migrant laborers. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jun/01/migrant-guards-in-qatar-still-paid-under-1-an-hour-ahead-of-world-cup
- This is called narrative, to sway the minds of fools in the West. You can easily find a 100 similar corresponding stories like this about workers in the US. The facts on the ground say otherwise, I am speaking from Labour Law, & you bring me stories... The Gulf states are also the most popular destination for European & American immigrants...
But really the comparison just makes no sense in any case. No other countries can be like the gulf states, the good and the bad, because other economies aren't sitting on more oil than they know what to do with. It's also not a sustainable system since we'll eventually move away from oil.
- The Oil Industry is one of the largest industries in the world, involving some of the highest expertise & cutting edge research in any field. The Gulf states are global leaders in Energy related industries & R&D. Also, less a 1/7th of Qatar's economy is in Gas & Oil (even less for the UAE). Their reliance on natural resources has long gone. I should be the one to say other economies aren't siting on more USD than they know what to do with, like the US. Oil Industry is a real thing in the real world, involving millions of workers & research. USD is created by some couple hundred people in Capitol to concoct an imaginary value out of thin air.
I hate what the United States has become so much that I'm seriously considering leaving even though my family has been here since the 1600s. Believe me, there's no rose colored glasses here. But it doesn't stop me from seeing what's right in front of me which is that the US is quite clearly pulling away from the rest of the Western world and is in a position to continue dominating for at least the next several decades. It's certainly nowhere near collapse.
- Give me a solid reason why you believe that. You haven't said anything tangible so far, except your gut feelings about it.
No, you're missing the point. An immigrant is not a foreigner, at least not according to the US system. That's part of what makes it so sustainable--the people running it couldn't care a whit whether the top companies are staffed and run by natives or by immigrants. The status quo which is a mix of both based on ability is pretty stable. Also the majority of US skilled professionals aren't immigrants--not even close. But the system vacuuming up the worlds galaxy brains is a sign of STRENGTH not weakness. COULD it stop in the future, sure...but go ahead and find me Silicon Valley tier salaries somewhere else. People, including many of the worlds top scientists are voting with their feet.
- They are indeed immigrants in S&E fields. 100% of native social workers isn't gunna drive the country, who cares. Indeed, you can't find Silicon Valley salaries almost anywhere else, all thanks to USD. Without USD, good luck keeping them there, you can forget about brinning new talent in.
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@YouFound_Lxam
You said that you will ignore me, and then contradicted yourself by responding even more.
Anyway, US is not number 1 in military.
Where is your argument that US is number 1 in military?
Are US ICBMs good?
North Korean ICBM is the best in the world, as we have proven before.
You also didnt answer why would USA be able to match North Korean strategic nuclear force.
You already failed to refute my argument before.
You already agreed that US is unable to intercept North Korean missiles, and you agreed that North Korea will destroy most of USA if Kim commands it. This makes your argument worthless.
You started talking about human rights. All rights are given by power, and North Korea has all the power.
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@Best.Korea
If you really think North Korea is better buddy, then go move there.
You already agreed that US is unable to intercept North Korean missiles,
When did I ever agree to this? This is a blatant lie.
You started talking about human rights. All rights are given by power, and North Korea has all the power.
Another lie.
and you agreed that North Korea will destroy most of USA if Kim commands it.
Oh, and another lie as well.
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@YouFound_Lxam
"If you really think North Korea is better buddy, then go move there. "
I am afraid I am too homosexual for that. There is a risk I could pollute North Korea with outsider unwanted filth.
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@YouFound_Lxam
"When did I ever agree to this? This is a blatant lie."
Why didnt you agree?
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@Yassine
Turn to the traditions of the West. America is not a western country in my opinion. It is an Atlantist country that has it's ontological foundations in pagan liberalism. Really, everything has to be destroyed and a new American identity needs to be formed. It would take at least a 100 years so :/
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@YouFound_Lxam
Most of them weren't Christian yes, but most of them were Deists, meaning they believed in a higher being.
Deism is completely different from Christianity and asserts completely different beliefs. It's why the Constitution is the way it is. If the Founding Fathers were Christian, the Constitution would look a lot different.
How do you know this?
"Recognized in Europe as the author of the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson quickly became a focal point or lightning rod for revolutionaries in Europe and the Americas. As United States minister to France when revolutionary fervor was rising toward the storming of the Bastille in 1789, Jefferson became an ardent supporter of the French Revolution, even allowing his residence to be used as a meeting place for the rebels led by Lafayette. Jefferson maintained his support for the French Revolution, although he wavered during the most violent and bloody stages. This became a key policy of his opposition political party. A revolution led by blacks in St. Domingue (Haiti) proved to be a crucible for testing the Jeffersonian right of revolution. Jefferson did not applaud the successful revolt, though he did propose that black rebels and convicts from the United States be relocated to the new nation. Jefferson reached the limits of his influence when he attempted to intrude republican principles in Russia, Poland, Greece, and the emerging South American nations. Until his death Jefferson was convinced that “this ball of liberty . . . will roll round the world” aided by the beacon of the Declaration of Independence."
Then I ask you, how has America gone from the lowest part of the British empire to the most powerful and successful country in the world in just the span of 245 years.I mean countries like China, and India have been around for much longer, but we are still the most powerful, and successful? That means was doing something right.And the USA was founded on Judeo-Christian values:
We got to this point by establishing the New World Order based on liberalism.
Your link is fucking bullshit. The only "evidence" is that the founding fathers claimed rights came from the "creator". He then falsely interprets this as the founding fathers appealing to God. But, the deistic "creator" is a lot different than the Christian God.
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@Dr.Franklin
Turn to the traditions of the West. America is not a western country in my opinion. It is an Atlantist country that has it's ontological foundations in pagan liberalism. Really, everything has to be destroyed and a new American identity needs to be formed. It would take at least a 100 years so :/
- We often hear "Western values" "our values" "Judeo-Christian values", to express these foundations. So, I assume you are not referring to these when you speak of traditions. What exactly are these traditions of the West you're referring to?