-->
@3RU7AL
it could be either an honest oversightor a misinterpretation on your part
Or deliberate deception on theirs.
Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory
Posts
Total:
1,052
-->
@Tarik
Or deliberate deception on theirs.
perhaps, but you have no way of knowing that
AND, in a debate, negative characterizations are AD HOMINEM ATTACKS
-->
@3RU7AL
perhaps, but you have no way of knowing that
I know a conflicting argument when I see one.
AND, in a debate, negative characterizations are AD HOMINEM ATTACKS
How many times are you going to say the same things over and over again?
-->
@Tarik
perhaps, but you have no way of knowing thatI know a conflicting argument when I see one.
maybe, sometimes, but you can't see anyone's level of sincerity
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @Tarikperhaps, but you have no way of knowing thatI know a conflicting argument when I see one.maybe, sometimes, but you can't see anyone's level of sincerity
So far Tarik has not shown any poor judgement regarding anyone's level of sincerity.
-->
@3RU7AL
maybe, sometimes, but you can't see anyone's level of sincerity
There is no sincerity regarding a lie.
-->
@Tarik
-> @3RU7ALmaybe, sometimes, but you can't see anyone's level of sincerityThere is no sincerity regarding a lie.
But one can sincerely believe in a lie.
Christians believe in the virgin birth even though it is a lie according to Luke 1.
-->
@Shila
Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant
Double_R said: when people agree and share the same opinion they become irrelevant.
You’re misconstruing what I wrote. It’s not everyone that’s irrelevant, it’s everyone sharing the same opinion that’s irrelevant. Or to put it another way, it’s not everyone that shares the same opinion which is irrelevant, it’s that everyone shares the same opinion which is irrelevant.
The context here made that very clear.
-->
@Double_R
The context here made that very clear.
still probably an honest misunderstanding, at least initially
-->
@Shila
maybe, sometimes, but you can't see anyone's level of sinceritySo far Tarik has not shown any poor judgement regarding anyone's level of sincerity.
how can we verify the quality of their judgement regarding anyone's level of sincerity ?
-->
@Tarik
maybe, sometimes, but you can't see anyone's level of sincerityThere is no sincerity regarding a lie.
accusing someone of insincerity (and or being disingenuous) is accusing someone of lying
they are synonymous
-->
@Shila
But one can sincerely believe in a lie.
yes, of course
and if this is the case, they are NOT "a liar"
-->
@Tarik
And once you’ve done that, explain how getting into heaven is an objective basis for morality.Because only moral people can get into it
There is nothing about that answer which justifies the assertion that getting into heaven is an objective basis for morality. That is simply the basis which you chose because it makes sense to you, just as I choose well being because it makes sense to me.
That’s a self refuting definition when you take into account the diametrically opposed judgements people have regarding the same action
No, it’s not.
We’re all using a different moral standard which is why we have disagreements about right vs wrong. Nothing about that conflicts with the fact that we’re still using a system to judge the actions of others, I didn’t say we’re all using the same system.
-->
@Double_R
And once you’ve done that, explain how getting into heaven is an objective basis for morality.Because only moral people can get into itThere is nothing about that answer which justifies the assertion that getting into heaven is an objective basis for morality. That is simply the basis which you chose because it makes sense to you, just as I choose well being because it makes sense to me.
hold on,
EVEN IFF the holy scriptures are 100% TRUE,
EVEN IFF the holy scriptures are 100% TRUE,
immoral people get into heaven all the time
all they have to do is ask forgiveness and believe the jesus will save them
salvation actually literally means "to cover with salve"
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @Shilamaybe, sometimes, but you can't see anyone's level of sinceritySo far Tarik has not shown any poor judgement regarding anyone's level of sincerity.how can we verify the quality of their judgement regarding anyone's level of sincerity ?
Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
-->
@Shila
how can we verify the quality of their judgement regarding anyone's level of sincerity ?
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @Shilahow can we verify the quality of their judgement regarding anyone's level of sincerity ?
We have to judge them by the fruits they bear.
Men tend to hang them low.
And women carry them high.
-->
@3RU7AL
accusing someone of insincerity (and or being disingenuous) is accusing someone of lyingthey are synonymous
And you’re telling me this because?
-->
@Double_R
There is nothing about that answer which justifies the assertion that getting into heaven is an objective basis for morality. That is simply the basis which you chose because it makes sense to you, just as I choose well being because it makes sense to me.
Why didn’t you start with that rather than asking me to explain? Because you saying my answer makes sense to me isn’t a retort in the slightest.
We’re all using a different moral standard which is why we have disagreements about right vs wrong.
That makes no sense, in order for morality to make sense and we grasp the concept of right and wrong it must be consistent across the board otherwise it refutes itself, I alluded to this previously here I guess you ignored it.
-->
@Tarik
We have to judge them by the fruits they bear.
Men tend to hang them low.
And women carry them high.
And you’re telling me this because?
Your fruits are hung low.
-->
@Tarik
That makes no sense, in order for morality to make sense and we grasp the concept of right and wrong it must be consistent across the board otherwise it refutes itself
bingo
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @TarikThat makes no sense, in order for morality to make sense and we grasp the concept of right and wrong it must be consistent across the board otherwise it refutes itselfbingo
Right and wrong is actually quite consistent across the board.
How right and wrong is judged depends on the individuals faith.
-->
@Shila
Right and wrong is actually quite consistent across the board.
what does jesus teach us about copyright law ?
-->
@3RU7AL
still probably an honest misunderstanding, at least initially
I wouldn’t doubt that it was honest, but I think it does show some serious confirmation bias. The sentence before made very clear what I was talking about, you really have to gloss over it without thinking twice to make that error.
immoral people get into heaven all the timeall they have to do is ask forgiveness and believe the jesus will save them
Very true
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @ShilaRight and wrong is actually quite consistent across the board.what does jesus teach us about copyright law ?
Jesus demanded his name be mentioned.
Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
-->
@3RU7AL
all they have to do is ask forgiveness and believe the jesus will save them
Asking for forgiveness means nothing if you’re not remorseful.
-->
@Tarik
Why didn’t you start with that rather than asking me to explain? Because you saying my answer makes sense to me isn’t a retort in the slightest.
You are the one who asserted that morality must be objective to make sense, so I challenged you to support your claim. That’s what open minded individuals do. When you failed to attempt justifying such a claim, I began explaining what was wrong with your assertion. This is how productive conversations are attempted.
My answer isn’t supposed to be a retort, it’s a description of what’s wrong with your position. Again, you are making the claim. Prove it.
in order for morality to make sense and we grasp the concept of right and wrong it must be consistent across the board
Correct. That doesn’t however require objectivity, all it requires is that we begin with the same moral standards. If we have conflicting moral standards then we are not going to agree on matters of right vs wrong, which happens all the time.
-->
@Double_R
My answer isn’t supposed to be a retort, it’s a description of what’s wrong with your position.
Saying “that makes sense to you but not to me” isn’t descriptive at all, it’s dismissive of the issue by stating what appears to be obvious to both parties arguing. I don’t understand why you’ve been pressing just to not even fully engage with my answer.
If we have conflicting moral standards then we are not going to agree on matters of right vs wrong, which happens all the time.
How can both standards be moral if they conflict? That’s like saying you have two left feet (I know that’s an expression but it’s not to be taken literally) it’s fundamentally impossible that goes beyond just disagreement between individuals.
-->
@Shila
Right and wrong is actually quite consistent across the board.what does jesus teach us about copyright law ?Jesus demanded his name be mentioned.Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
does this mean that the jesus was an advocate for 20 year patent and copyright protections ?
-->
@Tarik
all they have to do is ask forgiveness and believe the jesus will save themAsking for forgiveness means nothing if you’re not remorseful.
immoral people still have regrets and can feel sorry and remorseful