Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory

Author: Conservallectual

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#181
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@Tarik

-> @Tarik
Exactly so to tie this back to our discussion a fact is something that can be proven, so for arguments sake if love is what gets you into heaven then that’s the proof in the pudding.
If love gets you into heaven why is the proof in the pudding? Shouldn’t heaven be the proof?

Indeed, hence why I included heaven as a part of my diatribe.
Let’s recap what you believe: Love is what gets you into Heaven, heaven is part of your diatribe. But the proof is in the pudding. So why serve diatribe with pudding?
#182
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@Double_R
The weather is what it is regardless of what anyone thinks about it.
And Morality is what it is regardless of what anyone thinks about it.

And once you’ve done that, explain how getting into heaven is an objective basis for morality.
Because everybody loves heaven.
#183
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@3RU7AL
you don't have to ADOPT my perspective, but you do need to at least acknowledge that it exists and is valid
Some folks are just deliberately dishonest so that’s not exactly true.
#184
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@Tarik
And once you’ve done that, explain how getting into heaven is an objective basis for morality.
Because everybody loves heaven.
Even if that were true, that still wouldn’t make it objective.

You ignored the rest of my post, I take that as a sign that you realize you can’t substantiate your position, or you’ve quietly changed it. Glad I could be of service.
#185
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@Double_R
Even if that were true, that still wouldn’t make it objective.
How so? Care to “substantiate this position”.

You ignored the rest of my post
I edited it previously, feel free to take a look.
#186
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@Tarik
Some folks are just deliberately dishonest so that’s not exactly true.
(1) you can't possibly know that (because the internal process of other people is beyond your epistemological limits)

(2) negatively characterizing the MOTIVES of your conversation partner is a text-book AD HOMINEM ATTACK

(3) if you are personally convinced that your conversation partner is arguing in BAD FAITH, then abandon the conversation
#187
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@Tarik
--> @Double_R
The weather is what it is regardless of what anyone thinks about it.
And Morality is what it is regardless of what anyone thinks about it.

And once you’ve done that, explain how getting into heaven is an objective basis for morality.
Because everybody loves heaven.

-> @Tarik
Exactly so to tie this back to our discussion a fact is something that can be proven, so for arguments sake if love is what gets you into heaven then that’s the proof in the pudding.
If love gets you into heaven why is the proof in the pudding? Shouldn’t heaven be the proof?

Indeed, hence why I included heaven as a part of my diatribe.
Let’s recap what you believe: Love is what gets you into Heaven, heaven is part of your diatribe. But the proof is in the pudding. So why serve diatribe with pudding?

#188
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@Tarik
How so? Care to “substantiate this position”.
Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant.
#189
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@Double_R
-> @Tarik
How so? Care to “substantiate this position”.
Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant.
Are you saying when people agree and share the same opinion they become irrelevant?

#190
Polytheist-Witch
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Are you saying when people agree and share the same opinion they become irrelevant?
Sums up the atheists view on theists about as accurately as you can.
#191
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@Shila
Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant.
Are you saying when people agree and share the same opinion they become irrelevant?
more specifically, everyone sharing the same opinion on something does not make that shared opinion "objective"

it makes that widely shared opinion "intersubjective"

which is not the same as "objective"

anyone claiming to have an "objective opinion" is confused about the definitions of "objective" and "opinion"

because these terms are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE
#192
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@Shila
Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant.
Are you saying when people agree and share the same opinion they become irrelevant?
Please explain how you came to this understanding of what I said. 
#193
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Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory


atheism and reality is contradictory 

#194
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@3RU7AL
(1) you can't possibly know that (because the internal process of other people is beyond your epistemological limits)
You don’t need to know someone’s internal process to detect dishonesty, it’s as simple as reading what they say and if you understand semantics then there’s nothing more to it.

negatively characterizing the MOTIVES of your conversation partner is a text-book AD HOMINEM ATTACK
Not if there motives negatively influence there dialogue.

if you are personally convinced that your conversation partner is arguing in BAD FAITH, then abandon the conversation
If I wanted your advice on how to interact with people I would’ve asked for it.

#195
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@Double_R
Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant.
So what does morality mean?
#196
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@Tarik
negatively characterizing the MOTIVES of your conversation partner is a text-book AD HOMINEM ATTACK
Not if there motives negatively influence there dialogue.
there is nothing in the definition of AD HOMINEM ATTACK

that makes exceptions for "dialogue influence"
#197
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@Vici
atheism and reality is contradictory 
please explain
#198
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@Tarik
So what does morality mean?
Morality is a system by which we judge the actions of ourselves and others.
#199
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@3RU7AL
there is nothing in the definition of AD HOMINEM ATTACK

that makes exceptions for "dialogue influence"
In the words of you, “please link to” AD HOMINEM ATTACK.

#200
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@Double_R
And once you’ve done that, explain how getting into heaven is an objective basis for morality.
Because only moral people can get into it, is this a trick question?

Morality is a system by which we judge the actions of ourselves and others.
That’s a self refuting definition when you take into account the diametrically opposed judgements people have regarding the same action, I said something similar here https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/7916/post-links/341481
#201
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@Tarik
In the words of you, “please link to” AD HOMINEM ATTACK.
"Some folks are just deliberately dishonest" is an example of,

#202
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@3RU7AL
Wikipedia isn’t a reliable source but for sake of the discussion I’ll bite anyway, it says

“Typically, this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than addressing the substance of the argument itself.”

Operative words being “substance of the argument” now explain to me how that’s much different from the influence of the dialogue?
#203
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@Double_R
--> @Shila
Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant.
Are you saying when people agree and share the same opinion they become irrelevant?
Please explain how you came to this understanding of what I said
I simply took what you said which was “everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant.”

Double_R wrote: Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant. Post# 188.
#204
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@Tarik
Operative words being “substance of the argument” now explain to me how that’s much different from the influence of the dialogue?
the argument presented

and the person who is speaking

are two different things

calling someone a liar, for example

attacks the speaker

without addressing the argument presented

this is an ad hominem attack
#205
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@Shila
Double_R wrote: Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant [to the determination of how "objective" it might or might not be]. Post# 188.
#206
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@Double_R
--> @Shila
Double_R wrote: Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant [to the determination of how "objective" it might or might not be]. Post# 188.
Double_R wrote: Because objectivity means not subject to opinion. So everyone sharing the same opinion is irrelevant. Post# 188.

Double_R said: when people agree and share the same opinion they become irrelevant.
#207
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@3RU7AL

calling someone a liar, for example

attacks the speaker

without addressing the argument presented
Not if your calling them a liar based on the conflicting arguments they present, we’ve been over this already.

#208
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@Tarik
Not if your calling them a liar based on the conflicting arguments they present, we’ve been over this already.
pointing out apparent conflicts in someone's argument should always be appreciated

presupposing that these apparent conflicts are the result of deliberate deception is an ad hominem attack
#209
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@3RU7AL
presupposing that these apparent conflicts are the result of deliberate deception is an ad hominem attack
Not it’s not, anything that conflicts with the truth is literally the definition of deliberate deception.
#210
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@Tarik
Not it’s not, anything that conflicts with the truth is literally the definition of deliberate deception.
it could be either an honest oversight

or a misinterpretation on your part