Atheism and humanism are completely contradictory

Author: Conservallectual

Posts

Total: 1,052
#841
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Shila
How can there be haters if we all love one another. Even the haters will be loved.
ok, are you suggesting we let everyone out of prison ?

or are you suggesting we construct lovely prisons ?
#842
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @Shila
How can there be haters if we all love one another. Even the haters will be loved.
ok, are you suggesting we let everyone out of prison ?

or are you suggesting we construct lovely prisons ?
Showing them love no matter where they are will make prisons less isolating or stigmatizing.

#843
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Shila
Showing them love no matter where they are will make prisons less isolating or stigmatizing.
i agree
#844
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @Shila
Showing them love no matter where they are will make prisons less isolating or stigmatizing.
i agree
The same can be applied to atheists and humanism so they are less contradictory.

#845
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@3RU7AL
how do we know what "god" wants ?
I don’t know.
#846
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@Double_R
No, it's the definition. Look it up.
Definition of what? You seemed to claim conflate sociopaths with immorality and I’m asking you is that an opinion or a fact?

That has nothing to do with anything I've said.
Actually it does because you said you need a mind for truth, but theres a creator of the first mind and the truth value in that proves that truth existed before minds.

Truth pertains to a claim being made. 
No, truth pertains to reality (which I alluded to before) whether or not someone says something about it has no bearing.
#847
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Tarik
how do we know what "god" wants ?
I don’t know.
so, you're claiming there is an "objective" standard of morality

but that standard is unknown and or unknowable
#848
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@3RU7AL
but that standard is unknown and or unknowable
In regards to me, yes.
#849
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Tarik
but that standard is unknown and or unknowable
In regards to me, yes.
ok, so that means

each person

must

figure out 

for themselves

what they think is 

"right"

and what is

"wrong"
#850
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@3RU7AL
That makes no sense because in regards to what you think there’s nothing to figure out, whether or not what you think aligns with God and is true is a different matter.
#851
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Tarik
You seemed to claim conflate sociopaths with immorality and I’m asking you is that an opinion or a fact?
Read what I wrote.

I didn't conflate anything. I explained that the opposing position to what I espoused and you questioned is a sociopath. I then said that if you are a sociopath then you are not worth my time to debate morality.

What about that is complicated?

That has nothing to do with anything I've said.
Actually it does because you said you need a mind for truth, but theres a creator of the first mind and the truth value in that proves that truth existed before minds.
The "that" you are referring to is your own claim that there was a creator of the first mind. Whether that claim is true or false, it took your mind to make it and assess it, so you haven't proved a thing.

Truth cannot "exist" without a mind because the assertion of a truth claim cannot be done without a mind. The term "creator" as it is understood in English, also requires a mind. So the term "creator of the first mind" is logically incoherent.

Truth pertains to a claim being made. 
No, truth pertains to reality
No, it doesn't. We don't say "the roundness of the earth is true". When we say something is true, the "something" we are referring to is the claim we are assessing. Reality is what we are matching today claim to.
#852
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Tarik
That makes no sense because in regards to what you think there’s nothing to figure out, whether or not what you think aligns with God and is true is a different matter.
if you can't know what god wants

how can you know if your personal sense of "right" and "wrong"

"aligns with god" ?
#853
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@Double_R
I then said that if you are a sociopath then you are not worth my time to debate morality.
Are you asserting that morality could be debated? Because if it could then that would make it objective by nature, because subjectivity is influenced by emotion and emotional arguments in debate is a fallacy, making subjective morality a fallacy as well.
#854
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@3RU7AL
if you can't know what god wants
I never said you can’t know, I said I don’t know.

#855
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Tarik
if you can't know what god wants
I never said you can’t know, I said I don’t know.
how can you know ?

or, who do you think can know ?
#856
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@3RU7AL
how can you know ?

or, who do you think can know ?
Let me just stop you while you’re ahead, if you think asking me these redundant questions is gonna lead to me conceding that morality is subjective, then you got another thing coming.

#857
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Tarik
how can you know ?

or, who do you think can know ?
Let me just stop you while you’re ahead, if you think asking me these redundant questions is gonna lead to me conceding that morality is subjective, then you got another thing coming.
how do you know "there is a standard" when you can't describe "the standard" ?

is it some kind of secret ?
#858
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@3RU7AL
how do you know "there is a standard"
Based off of subsets of His standard I do know, like what Shila alluded to in post #840

#859
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Tarik
how do you know "there is a standard"
Based off of subsets of His standard I do know, like what Shila alluded to in post #840
The standard alluded to in post#840

John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
oh, good

now we can just throw all the haters in prison
How can there be haters if we all love one another. Even the haters will be loved.

This must all be very foreign to you. But that is what John 13:34 says.


#860
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Tarik
Are you asserting that morality could be debated? Because if it could then that would make it objective by nature
People debate subjective topics all the time. I'm sorry if you don't understand how this works.
#861
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@Double_R
-> @Tarik
Are you asserting that morality could be debated? Because if it could then that would make it objective by nature
People debate subjective topics all the time. I'm sorry if you don't understand how this works.
Are you implying objecting matters like morality are less debated?

#862
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Shila
Are you implying objecting matters like morality are less debated?
you don't find a lot of people debating 1 + 1 = 2
#863
Shila
Shila's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 3,006
3
3
5
Shila's avatar
Shila
3
3
5
-->
@3RU7AL
--> @Shila
Are you implying objecting matters like morality are less debated?
you don't find a lot of people debating 1 + 1 = 2
Because something that simple and obvious need not be debated. 
But here you are complaining you don't find a lot of people debating 1 + 1 = 2.

#864
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@Double_R
I'm sorry if you don't understand how this works.
No, I’m sorry you don’t know how appeal of emotion fallacy works.
#865
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Shila
Are you implying objecting matters like morality are less debated?
I never said nor implied anything close to that. I said that subjective issues are debated all the time, and they are. Why is that so complicated? Why do I need to fend off countless strawmans everytime I state something so simple and obvious?
#866
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Tarik
No, I’m sorry you don’t know how appeal of emotion fallacy works.
Nothing about our conversation had anything to do with appeal to emotion fallacies.
#867
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@Double_R
Nothing about our conversation had anything to do with appeal to emotion fallacies.
Maybe you should refer back to post #853 to help bridge the gap you seem to think is missing.

#868
Double_R
Double_R's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 5,260
3
2
5
Double_R's avatar
Double_R
3
2
5
-->
@Tarik
Yes, and I ignored that part because it's not relevant to anything we've been discussing.
#869
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@Double_R
Yes, and I ignored that part because it's not relevant to anything we've been discussing.
So subjectivity and morality isn’t relevant to anything we’ve been discussing? Because that’s what was addressed in that post, don’t act slow now.
#870
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Shila
But here you are complaining you don't find a lot of people debating 1 + 1 = 2.
please be slightly more specific