what are some of your radical but controversial opinions

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Swagnarok
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@badger
A pedophile is somebody who's attracted to children. A child molester is somebody who has taken action to molest an actual child. The former is somebody who could offend whereas the latter is somebody who has offended. We should distinguish capacity to offend from being already guilty.

Also, chemical castration doesn't involve cutting anything off. It's a pill or an injection and nothing more.
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@thett3
school is pretty much just actively harmful, especially for boys. Sit down and shut the fuck up for 8 hours isn’t always the easiest thing for a seven year old, and drugging them if they have issues with this is asinine, but around 1 in 5 boys have to take drugs (adderral, Ritalin, etc) as children to cope with schooling.
Millions and millions and millions of people on both the left and right would agree with this. There was never a more politically agreeable statement than "We shouldn't be drugging little kids because they won't sit still."

On top of that children spending most of their waking life in a social system that’s never replicated again—everyone being exactly the same age and competing for the attention of one authority figure—probably isn’t good preparation for life. 
I disagree to an extent. In a workplace setting, you have a job to do. And you must do that job to the specifications that the boss wants while cooperating with your peers regardless of their ages. Imparting this trait is an outsized function of post-industrial pedagogy.

And homework must be abolished.
Definitely disagree. School is "structured time", in that you must do X because there's somebody breathing down your neck and making you do X. But it doesn't teach you how to manage "unstructured time" when there's nobody around to make you do stuff. It doesn't teach you self-control when nobody's watching. But homework does.
Of course, there's plenty of room to argue that students receive too much homework, but homework in principle is a good thing.

The best thing that can be said about the system is that it if it’s done well it truly does prepare you for the academic life of college
This is what schools nowadays are designed to do: prepare students for college. Standardized curriculum and exams are in place to prepare students for passing SAT/ACT and having a uniform baseline of knowledge upon admission to a college. Nobody would argue that it's designed to adequately prepare you for the real world.

I considered making a separate thread about this, but I think that the "classical education" model could be a much better fit for some households. In the past, you learned Greek and Latin and then studied authors like Euclid** and Aristotle in their original language. It was incredibly rigorous and it also taught you how to think. This was how upper-class Victorian preppy kids learned and then they went on to become the next generation of elites.
There are reasons why this isn't widely done today; namely, its difficulty would mean a lot of students don't make the cut and don't graduate. But if you were a committed parent who could force your kids to study hard and make passing grades, it could produce well-rounded citizens immune to fads and myopic propaganda while also setting them up with the discipline to accomplish anything they set their minds to.

**For context: Euclid's Elements was the textbook for geometry well into the 20th century and is still sometimes used in classrooms today, albeit in updated English with illustrations. This 2,300 year old book was so brilliant that it would still satisfy the needs of high school geometry instruction in the year 2022. Euclid's geometry emphasized mathematical proofs, which many classrooms still do today but is being slowly phased out in practice.
RationalMadman
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@thett3
Honestly as someone who sucked at sports it came with great irony for me to realise as a grown man that the best lessons I learned in school were from fucking PE. Knowing how to land without hurting your ankles and knowing the correct way to lift things and throw etc actually remain useful throughout quite a few situations in life.
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@oromagi
If we focused law enforcement on illegal employers rather than illegal immigrants we'd  make a major impact on that problem in no time.  Much cheaper and easier to enforce.  Put a few restaurant and hotel and golf course owners in jail for perpetuating illegal immigration, those opportunities will quickly dry up and the primary motivation for most illegal immigration goes away.
bingo
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@bmdrocks21
Voting is nice an all, but I can’t help but feel that uninformed voting is worse than uninformed people not voting. Some vetting would be nice, but I am going to wager a guess that expecting that voters should be able to read at an 8th grade level or pass high school or speak English is the “controversial” position
You can expect anything you want, putting it in practice is another matter entirely.

My father did not graduate high school and was by all means illiterate. I used to have to read him his mail. That didn't stop him from despite coming from nothing, amassing a real estate portfolio that by the time he died was worth over $2 million. He's been dead for 15 years now, yet his wife and 6 kids to this day still get checks from his accomplishments.

And as far as being informed goes, could you of the top of your head tell me the flight numbers of the 4 plains on 9/11? The times they crashed? The whereabout of various pubic officials? The messages left by the victims?

You know who could tell you all of this? 9/11 truthers. So it turns out the people "most informed" of the events of that day also tend to be the people who think the twin towers collapsed not because of the plane crashes and ensuing fires, but because of a carefully crafted controlled demolition using thermite bombs.

All that to say, there is no metric you can use to determine who is fit to vote. It doesn't matter how educated or intelligent one is, it's what you do with the information you have.

The president of the United States represents all Americans, therefore all Americans should have a right to cast a ballot.

Earlier you said uniformed people make bad decisions that impact everyone else, but every vote impacts everyone else so who are you to determine that your vote impacting them is ok but their vote impacting you is not?

If society is determine its own destiny then that includes everyone within that society.
3RU7AL
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@Double_R
Earlier you said uniformed people make bad decisions that impact everyone else,
well informed and highly intelligent people make decisions that benefit themselves

and often have a negative impact on everyone else
thett3
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There was never a more politically agreeable statement than "We shouldn't be drugging little kids because they won't sit still."

Well you say this but the fact is that a large fraction of boys spend their childhoods on drugs and have for decades now, and you don’t even hear anything about it for the most part. Our societies revealed preference is quite clearly that little kids conforming to the system adults are used to > them not being drugged

I disagree to an extent. In a workplace setting, you have a job to do. And you must do that job to the specifications that the boss wants while cooperating with your peers regardless of their ages. Imparting this trait is an outsized function of post-industrial pedagogy.
When I left college and got my first post college job my coworkers ranged from 19 year old interns to a man who was actually in his early 80s. Luckily I was never been uncomfortable talking to adults as a kid, but a lot of people are and being completely age segregated like that doesn’t help imo. It’s just a really weird concept when you start to think about it. The boss being a substitute for the teacher is something I hadn’t thought of, I think you’re right that it’s a fair comparison. I think we are rapidly coming to agreement that the current system (assuming the school isn’t completely dysfunctional) does a decent job at preparing people for white collar life 

Definitely disagree. School is "structured time", in that you must do X because there's somebody breathing down your neck and making you do X. But it doesn't teach you how to manage "unstructured time" when there's nobody around to make you do stuff. It doesn't teach you self-control when nobody's watching. But homework does.
Of course, there's plenty of room to argue that students receive too much homework, but homework in principle is a good thing.
Most kids just google the answers to homework these days. Other than math which requires repetition (and most people don’t need to know much beyond basic arithmetic to be honest) my experience with homework was almost exclusively busy work. And a lot of it. It was actually worst in late elementary school, I remember sometimes coming home and just doing homework until it was time for bed. By middle school I was finally comfortable enough with “cheating” to be copying my friends and enjoying life lol. You’re right that it’s important to teach people how to structure their time but extra curriculars and life do a good job of this. I think the right place for homework is long term projects with clear objectives but really only one due date. Woe be to the procrastinator 

This is what schools nowadays are designed to do: prepare students for college. Standardized curriculum and exams are in place to prepare students for passing SAT/ACT and having a uniform baseline of knowledge upon admission to a college. Nobody would argue that it's designed to adequately prepare you for the real world.
It should be though. I mean the fact that people get twelve years of school and come out of it not really qualified to do anything is a big tell right there that the wrong stuff is being taught. Of course in the days a high school degree could get you a job it was more selective because they would flunk people and most dropped out. Of my four grandparents only one graduated from high school and two didn’t even go at all. I think Germany has the right model.

I think your idea about classical education would be a good one but the truth is that the vast majority of people aren’t cut out for that, and making them do it anyway just undermines it for the kids who are capable while providing no benefit to the majority. It’s okay if some people aren’t cut out for college. It takes all types of people to run a society. I know you agree with me but the system sure doesn’t do anything for kids like this
3RU7AL
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@thett3
The best thing that can be said about the system is that it if it’s done well it truly does prepare you for the academic life of college and the twelve years of boring and humiliating grind prepares you for boring and humiliating office jobs, but if you don’t go down that track as most don’t I’m not convinced it was worth anywhere near twelve years of your youth 
well stated
thett3
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One of my most baffling memories of public school:

In I think third grade they gave us this little quiz. The very first instruction was “read each problem before starting” and at the very end it said “turn this quiz in blank.” Of course everyone just answered each question until they got to the end. Then the teacher got to be all smug at her 8 year olds for not reading the fine print lol. Honestly that’s sadly a great lesson for navigating modernity 
3RU7AL
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@bmdrocks21
Voting is nice an all, but I can’t help but feel that uninformed voting is worse than uninformed people not voting. Some vetting would be nice, but I am going to wager a guess that expecting that voters should be able to read at an 8th grade level or pass high school or speak English is the “controversial” position
good thing we live in a TECHNO-OLIGARCHY
thett3
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Another baffling pubic school memory: 

Texas has (had?) a “Robin Hood” program where wealthy school districts pick up the tab for poorer ones. In one class they circulated a fake letter to us saying that because of the Robin Hood program something outrageous was happening (I think they were taking away the computer lab or making us pay for textbooks or something) to get us riled up…then when everyone was good and angry they pulled the rug out and said psych, the letter is fake. To this day I have no clue why they did that or what they were trying to accomplish. I can only imagine they were against the program and wanted us to have a negative association with it??? Idk public school is bizarre 
Athias
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@badger
This is meaningless. The problem in wealth equality is that our system of reward is more or less arbitrary. Whether I'm better than you, or you me, has nothing to do with it. Elon Musk is not worth 50 million dollars an hour where another is worth 3 cent.
What in the H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks are you talking about? Are you under some impression that I subscribe to the U.S.'s/Globe's current economic system? Doesn't make "equality" any less illogical.

If you like, taxation is a band-aid fix where we have allowed our system of reward to develop organically.
Nothing "organic" about it.




Athias
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@Greyparrot
I'll let you in on a little secret. There are no black or white people.

You have been lied to your whole life to believe various shades of pink and beige is white and various shades of Brown and yellow are Black.

In fact, every single person on the planet is a unique color and the same as no other in the world. There exists no Albinos that are actually 100% white and there are no people that are 100% Black on the color spectrum.

Think about that the next time you ponder the meaning of the universe.
Well stated.

badger
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@Athias
Are you under some impression that I subscribe to the U.S.'s/Globe's current economic system?

Yes, more or less. Free market anarchism. Strip away government, leave the rest. 

Nothing "organic" about it.

Economy is endless convolution grown around the idea of IOU's. Stocks and shares and patents and everything else is just more. Nobody planned it, it all just grew out of an idea. 

Doesn't make "equality" any less illogical.
So what's your point? 

Greyparrot
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@badger
How much faith do you have in your local central planners to decide what is best for you?

How sure are you that their plans will line up with what you think is best for you?
TWS1405
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@zedvictor4
reducing the gene pool IS [a] good thing. Especially where those that drag down the gene pool are concerned. 

https://youtu.be/QdSFHq1WrJA (Who Let the Dogs Out)

No one wants to see those in that video procreating. No one. 

Same goes for drug addicts, homeless, criminals, and the undereducated with no desire to move beyond their current predicament, so on and so forth. 

TWS1405
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Radical but controversial opinion...

That black Americans have it too good, take their freedom for granted, and demand more than what they believe they are owed precisely because they have too much freedom compared to blacks in South America and the Caribbean, where 10.7 million slaves were taken compared to the mere 0.1 million (about 335k) slaves were taken to North America. 

Blacks in North America bitch and moan about reparations, how slavery still hurts them present day (yet none of them have ever been a slave) and deny the fact that their own kin sold them into slavery; in addition to freed slaves becoming slave owners themselves and just as bad if not worse than their white slave owning counterparts. 

This segment of the black American population just refuses to take personal responsibility and accountability for their actions.; always blaming whitey for their failures.
Athias
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@badger
Yes, more or less. Free market anarchism. Strip away government, leave the rest. 
And you believe global markets and U.S. based markets exemplify free market anarchism?

Economy is endless convolution grown around the idea of IOU's.
Nope.

Stocks and shares and patents and everything else is just more.s
Those are the securities and I.P. markets. Issuing stocks may involve long-term debt accruement for short term financing, but that does not make Economy a "convolution grown around the idea of I.O.U.'s."

Nobody planned it, it all just grew out of an idea. 
The two aren't mutually exclusive.

So what's your point? 
Equality is illogical.

badger
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@Greyparrot
How much faith do you have in your local central planners to decide what is best for you?

How sure are you that their plans will line up with what you think is best for you?

Mark Zuckerberg built a shitty website, now he's watching me through every electronic device that I own. I've seen you misunderstand and write dumb shit about 1984 a bunch of times. What's that look like to you?

What do you think these billionaires are doing for you? By whatever market absurdities and black magic they have seized the entire means of production. We're fed only insofar as we're needed to run their machine. We're afforded "luxuries" where a poorer, defenceless class can be made work for nothing to create them for us. It's a balancing act. So long as their machine runs, they're happy. That might leave millions or billions unemployed or starving. We're just that lucky class given a little taste of the good life because they need us to enforce it all. 

That is the reality of capitalism. The state is a check on capitalism, albeit a failing one. Why do we need billionaires?
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@Athias
Economy is endless convolution grown around the idea of IOU's.
Nope.

Yes it is. That's what money is and that's what all the rest is. It all grew out of the idea of IOU's. The first piece of currency was a slip of paper with IOU written on it and here we are today, a monstrous capitalist machine. 
badger
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@Athias
And you believe global markets and U.S. based markets exemplify free market anarchism?
I believe the free market is a con and always was. 
Athias
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@badger
Yes it is. That's what money is and that's what all the rest is. It all grew out of the idea of IOU's. The first piece of currency was a slip of paper with IOU written on it and here we are today, a monstrous capitalist machine. 
No, it isn't. What you're talking about is fiat money, not the Economy.

I believe the free market is a con and always was. 
That's not what I asked. I asked whether or not you believed that Global and U.S. based markets exemplified free market anarchism.

badger
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@Athias
No, it isn't. What you're talking about is fiat money, not the Economy.
So the basic unit of economy is IOU and economy is not convolutions built atop the idea of IOU? All right, buddy. 

That's not what I asked. I asked whether or not you believed that Global and U.S. based markets exemplified free market anarchism.

I think you can have whatever good feelings you like about those three words, but they'll come to slavery. 
Athias
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@badger
So the basic unit of economy is IOU and economy is not convolutions built atop the idea of IOU? All right, buddy. 
Money is a unit, not the "basic unit"; it serves three functions, "medium of exchange, store of value, and unit of account," and a fourth which my old professor would state as "means of debt repayment." That is part of the Economy, not the whole economy or the economy. And I'm not your buddy, guy, okay?

I think you can have whatever good feelings you like about those three words, but they'll come to slavery. 
My good feelings are irrelevant. And you're still not addressing my question.
badger
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@Athias
My good feeling are irrelevant. And you're still not addressing my question.
I'm just not very interested in your pedantic way of argument. If you have something to say, say it. Why should I submit to this pulling of nails?

Money makes the world go round, Athias. It is economy. It's the beginning and end of all complexity in trade. IOU's. 
Greyparrot
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@badger
now he's watching me through every electronic device that I own.
Why do you choose to do facebook? I don't

Why do we need billionaires?
Nobody is forcing you to shop at Walmart. TBH I haven't been to a Walmart in years.
Athias
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@badger
I'm just not very interested in your pedantic way of argument.
Your interest in my "pedantic" way of argument is irrelevant especially if you've continued to engage me. No, this is just a way for you to insert "how you feel" as if that has any bearing on what we discuss.

If you have something to say, say it. Why should I submit to this pulling of nails?
No one's "pulling nails." Address the question or don't. If you don't however, then we'll just proceed as though it were a dropped point.

Money makes the world go round, Athias.
Nothing to do with what we're talking about.

It is [part of the] economy.
Fixed that for you.

It's the beginning and end of all complexity in trade.
Not the slightest bit true. Resources, which are not necessarily monetary, are the beginning and end of all trade. Money is a means to exchange for it, account for it, or to evaluate it. It just so happens that global governments have pedaled fiat money.
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@Athias
 If you don't however, then we'll just proceed as though it were a dropped point.
I want you to make your point. I've written exactly what I think in my posts here tonight. You're wasting my time with this nonsense. 

Not the slightest bit true
Pretty sure I wrote complexity in trade and nothing you wrote after refuted that. Seemed to agree with it actually. 
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@Athias
Not the slightest bit true. Resources, which are not necessarily monetary, are the beginning and end of all trade. 
It's also the end all and be all of IOU's...try getting a bank loan with no collateral.
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@Greyparrot
now he's watching me through every electronic device that I own.
Why do you choose to do facebook? I don't

Why do we need billionaires?
Nobody is forcing you to shop at Walmart. TBH I haven't been to a Walmart in years.

All of which gets you where exactly? Another billionaire?