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@Mopac
Is that because you worry about your soul?
Star Trek Teleportation
Posts
Total:
147
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@keithprosser
Do I need a rational reason?
Hey, I'm pretty fearless. I don't care whether I live or die.
Teleporters? The one tging that freaks me out.
I think Bones would agree.
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@Mopac
I think we have found something we agree on.
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@secularmerlin
"Physical" is "energy" is miscontruction via word games by Drafetman and is just as detrimental as deconstrution of occupied space human.His physical pattern is lost, but his "energy" pattern is retained.
Fuller addressed this issue his prognostications ---based on history circumnavigation of Earth-- led him to predict the teleportation of humans around Earth via EMRadiation or something similar by 1985.
Fullers triangle only based icosahedral, 2D flat mapping of sphere occurred in 1954.
Disassemble the 3D into 2D{ seemingly } triangular mapping medium --ex EMRadiation-- and teleported to another location to be exactly{ close enough for governement work } reassembled.
.."Have you ever wondered how your GPS receiver works? They use a technique called trilateration.
Despite how GPS receivers are often confused with triangulation (which measures angles), they really don’t use angles at all.
Trilateration involves measuring distances."....
..."Because we have a third satellite, it reveals your true location where all three circles intersect.
...Using three distances, trilateration can pinpoint a precise location. Each satellite is at the center of a sphere and where they all intersect is the position of the GPS receiver.
....As the position of the GPS receiver moves, the radius of each circle (distance) will also change."
Trilateration involves measuring distances."....
..."Because we have a third satellite, it reveals your true location where all three circles intersect.
...Using three distances, trilateration can pinpoint a precise location. Each satellite is at the center of a sphere and where they all intersect is the position of the GPS receiver.
....As the position of the GPS receiver moves, the radius of each circle (distance) will also change."
Three chord legnths of triangle instead of three angles yet there also exists three angles, they are just not needed or at least not considered.
If the angles are considered then and even greater accuracy ---or confirmation of accuracy--- may be arrived at.
Bilateralism is inherently a triangular system.
31 left and 31 right spinal nerves via central spinal chord.
Two eyes get a fix of depth on a third object.
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@mustardness
Ok then take it up with drafterman.Physical" is "energy" is miscontruction via word games by Drafetman
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@secularmerlin
Ok then take it up with drafterman.
Wow, what an intellectually stimulating reply. How much energy did you expend to arrive at that conclusion?
You must be intellectually drained.
"physical" = "energy" is a minimal brainer that neither you nor Drafterman can accept. Why?
Ego is the mental blockage that keeps humanity constipated. Ego is one chord of three ergo triangulation.
Id /
ego __ and ,
super-ego \ ergo,
/\ = triangle of id, ego and super-ego
To let the flow go --non-constipated-- the ego, id or super-ego has to be placed to the side, and intellectual information has to be allowed into the 2D triangle of consideration.
To become omni-considerate requires a 6 chords -- /\ /\-- of a tetrahedron minimally ergo minimal 3D consideration.
Con = coming together
Sider/siderus = star
Coming together{ consideration } of star events to create a pattern of thought.
4 viewpoints of tetrahedron complements 6 chords of tetrahedron.
Please do not strain your brain or ego any of the following
..."Like magic! He achieved this by dividing the globe into 96 triangles and projecting them onto a tetrahedron, preserving the proportions of water and land. Then he unfolded the tetrahedron into a rectangle, where the 96 sections created a map resembling the surface of the original globe, only flat.".....
.."Have you ever wondered how your GPS receiver works? They use a technique called trilateration.
Despite how GPS receivers are often confused with triangulation (which measures angles), they really don’t use angles at all.
Trilateration involves measuring distances."....
..."Because we have a third satellite, it reveals your true location where all three circles intersect.
...Using three distances, trilateration can pinpoint a precise location. Each satellite is at the center of a sphere and where they all intersect is the position of the GPS receiver.
....As the position of the GPS receiver moves, the radius of each circle (distance) will also change."
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@mustardness
As long as you are trying to communicate with dashes dots and triangles that is my response. Use your words ebuc.
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@secularmerlin
As long as you have ego based mental blockage to anything I state you will remain short-sighted aka narrow-minded or just plain ole closed-minded.As long as you are trying to communicate with dashes dots and triangles that is my response. Use your words ebuc.
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@mustardness
I just don't understand all the symbols you use. Maybe you could try using words instead? Otherwise you just have a nice day.
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@secularmerlin
I just don't understand all the symbols you use. Maybe you could try using words instead? Otherwise you just have a nice day.
No. you dont want to understand anything Ive stated.
I understand, that you dont have the energy, to step outside of you armpit-of-closed-mind, in my regards. Your choice, not mind.
Hot air texticon = :--O no significantly relevant info
Intellectual content = :--@ significantlly relevant info
Closed mind = o--( aka empty, kaput, out-to-lunch efgo based mental blockage etc
Telepathy between 2 consciousness biologics = (--:( )( )( )( ) :--)
= equals and equal sign. See dictionary, oh wait equal sign may not exist in dictionary. OMG, what will you do with your no-mind.
...."1131.13 The omnitriangulated strip is an extraordinary mathematicaltransformationin which you can graphically accommodate the omnidirectionalityof all systems in anexactly coordinated mathematical accounting. It canproject and print out on a strip allgravitational and radiational data, be they in the formof stars, fishes, or anything.
...They areall coordinatably print-outable onto one continuousflat ribbon map. What we have is atrue prototype of an omnidirectional typewriter. Itcan print out each omniembracing layerof each frequency layer of each convergent-divergentsystem. When you print out theomnidata on such a strip, it identifies specificallywhere and when each event in thetransformation occurs."...
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"physical" = "energy" is a minimal brainer that neither you nor Drafterman can accept. Why?
Ego is the mental blockage that keeps humanity constipated. Ego is one chord of three ergo triangulation.
Id /
ego __ and ,
super-ego \ ergo,
/\ = triangle of id, ego and super-ego
To let the flow go --non-constipated-- the ego, id or super-ego has to be placed to the side, and intellectual information has to be allowed into the 2D triangle of consideration.
To become omni-considerate requires a 6 chords -- /\ /\-- of a tetrahedron minimally ergo minimal 3D consideration.
Con = coming together
Sider/siderus{ latin } = star
Coming together{ consideration } of star events to create a pattern of thought.
4 viewpoints of tetrahedron complements 6 chords of tetrahedron.
Please do not strain your brain or ego any of the following
..."Like magic! He achieved this by dividing the globe into 96 triangles and projecting them onto a tetrahedron, preserving the proportions of water and land. Then he unfolded the tetrahedron into a rectangle, where the 96 sections created a map resembling the surface of the original globe, only flat.".....
.."Have you ever wondered how your GPS receiver works? They use a technique called trilateration.
Despite how GPS receivers are often confused with triangulation (which measures angles), they really don’t use angles at all.
Trilateration involves measuring distances."....
..."Because we have a third satellite, it reveals your true location where all three circles intersect.
...Using three distances, trilateration can pinpoint a precise location. Each satellite is at the center of a sphere and where they all intersect is the position of the GPS receiver.
....As the position of the GPS receiver moves, the radius of each circle (distance) will also change."
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@drafterman
Star Trek gets around the existential nightmare by accepting Dualism as true. That is, there is more to people than their physical make-up. In The Lonely Among Us Picard is beamed into space. His physical pattern is lost, but his "energy" pattern is retained. They are able to put the two back together by essentially restoring his physical body from a back-up of transporter logs.
That's not dualism.
The transporter buffer is simply a data set.
Matter is comprised of energy. ANY ENERGY.
You grab a qua-jillion-ba-gigawatts out of the warp core and run it through the transporter pattern in the buffer and you could create thousands of Picard clones.
And if he's such a super-amazing-legendary-captain, why wouldn't you put him in charge of every single ship in the fleet?
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@mustardness
If you were giving these explanations in Swahili and I said "I'm sorry but I don't understand Swahili" would that make me closeminded?
As I've said I just don't understand. At a certain point if someone really is confused by your statements (and assuming it is important to you that they do understand) it behooves you to try a different approach. Have you considered trying out some analogies? Or hypothetical situations perhaps? Anything but a grouping of shapes numbers parentheses and dashes because you may as well be speaking Swahili.
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@3RU7AL
Well statedThe transporter buffer is simply a data set.Matter is comprised of energy. ANY ENERGY.You grab a qua-jillion-ba-gigawatts out of the warp core and run it through the transporter pattern in the buffer and you could create thousands of Picard clones.And if he's such a super-amazing-legendary-captain, why wouldn't you put him in charge of every single ship in the fleet?
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@mustardness
unajua nini hii ina maana?
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@secularmerlin
<tongue-in-cheek>
In order for each particle in the copy to have the correct position and velocity it is necessary to measure the position and velocity of each source particles with very high precision.
Because of the Heisenberg Uncertainly Principle, measurement to the required position effectively randomises the subsequent positions and velocities of each source particle - hence the source particles become distributed across a vast region of space all moving independently. Thus teleporting allows for 1 and only one faithful copy. Multiple copies are possible only by reducing the fidelity of the copy. It is sometimes said that you can teleport Snow White and get either one Snow White or 7 dwarves.
</tongue-in-cheek>
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@keithprosser
(Not the least bit tongue in cheek)
I had not brought up the Heisenberg uncertainty principle because this is a philosophy and not a science thread... but since you did.
A teleporter of any kind would need to keep precise track of the position of every particle in order to reassemble the victim (ahem) subject properly but since all bodies in space are in motion it would also have to match the movement of each particle to the reletive speed of the planet or ship being materialized on lest the object/person being transported be battered by hurricane winds or squashed like a bug on a windshield. Since Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states that both of these things cannot be accounted for simultaneously any teleportation would perforce result in the subject either materializing as a puddle of goo or arriving at the wrong speed relative to their surroundings and crash8ng into the transporter pad on the other side at horrific speeds.
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@secularmerlin
Really I only wanted to use teleporting as a framework for a philosophical debate on the self. What ever the technical obections, they seem to have been all worked out on the Enterprise and people happily beam up and beam down.... even Bones is more concerned with malfunctions than the underlying philosophy.
I've a few very lively threads on other forums between pro and anti- teleporters, but perhaps DArt doesn't find it as interesting.as I do!
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@keithprosser
I am open to the discussion.
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@secularmerlin
OK - Can you be specific about why you are against telporting?
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@3RU7AL
That's not dualism.The transporter buffer is simply a data set.Matter is comprised of energy. ANY ENERGY.You grab a qua-jillion-ba-gigawatts out of the warp core and run it through the transporter pattern in the buffer and you could create thousands of Picard clones.And if he's such a super-amazing-legendary-captain, why wouldn't you put him in charge of every single ship in the fleet?
Sorry, but this contradicts the cannon of Star Trek. It wasn't merely enough to recover Picard's physical pattern from the transporter records, but his specific life energy (used in a different context than physical energy) had to also be located into the transporter relays in order to be combined. It isn't simply enough to provide the transporter with energy and create physical bodies.
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@keithprosser
Have I not been? It is an existential nightmare and there is no way to verify objectively that it does not kill you and replace you with a clone. Since I do not wish to die I would not want to take the chance. Ever. Even if it was "me" when "I" materialized I would spend the rest of my life wondering if I were only a clone. I have enough existential horror and uncertainty in my life just having to rely on my flawed human senses to collect data. Transporters I don't need.
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@drafterman
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@secularmerlin
That sounds rather an emotional reason! Many anti-teleporters go as far as wanting to ban the technology as death machines -do you go that far?
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@keithprosser
No I do not. If you want to take that chance then you are free to but I refuse to join an organization which considers it mandatory. I don't want my loved ones to be transported either but if they do I will not treat them any differently. #clonesneedlovetoo
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@secularmerlin
The point is that characters in Star Trek clearly don't think of teleporting as cloning but as means a transport. It is 'beam me up,Scotty', not 'create a clone of me,Scotty'. In the Star Trek universe the answer to 'is post-teleport Spock the same person as pre-teleport Spock?' is unquivocally 'yes' (malfunctions aside!).
(btw didn't we discuss what 'person' meant before?)
Contrary to earlier posts, I think that indicates a very monist, materialist and non-Dualist philosophy applies , and I think it also applies in our universe.
I think the self is not made of neurons per se but by the pattern of their interactions. Neurons are the dancers, but self is the dance, less floridly, self is pattern and pattern is non-material - it is information.
Information is the only stuff that can copied perfectly. So what the teleporter must be doing is ensuring the pattern of neural activity in th e 'copy' is the same as in the 'original'. If you accept the idea at the self is neural activity and nothing else (ie monist materialism) I can se no philosphical obection to teleporting.
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@drafterman
How do you explain the Riker clone?Sorry, but this contradicts the cannon of Star Trek. It wasn't merely enough to recover Picard's physical pattern from the transporter records, but his specific life energy (used in a different context than physical energy) had to also be located into the transporter relays in order to be combined. It isn't simply enough to provide the transporter with energy and create physical bodies.
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@3RU7AL
Narrativium contamnation, probably in the flux converter.
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@keithprosser
If you accept the idea at the self is neural activity and nothing else
I'm not sure what constitutes self so I have no reason to accept this.
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@secularmerlin
That is becoming your trademark answer on DA!
I'm not asking you to accept it - I'm bouncing an idea off you to see if between us all we can find out whas self is.
.
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@keithprosser
If self is merely the pattern of neural activity then only the brain is necessary for self. Is a brain in a jar an individual? Should it be afforded human rights?