Boxing and Muay Thai (thai Boxing) being on the same side is also absurd.
MMA Mafia DP2
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Boxing and Muay Thai (thai Boxing) being on the same side is also absurd.
they make perfect counterparts.
The only theme they both fit into is a strike-only theme or a knockout-focused team.
Based on your role's hint and thematic analysis, it makes only sense that boxing with insta KO could be the strongman able to penetration protection like that.
This, this makes the most sense out of anything, Insta K0 perfectly fits boxing being the strongman
VTL WF
I'll get a vote count in after hours when I'm off work
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@Lunatic
Please force Supadudz to be active or replace him out and extend the DP length if need be.
I know you said no questions during DP but I really want to just stress that Supadudz being inactive is unfair on whoever's side he's on and I don't want to win with or against a total inact, I'm happy to carry him if he's Town with me but at this point he really needs to be here even as Town, to hammer the 4v2.
they make perfect counterparts.The only theme they both fit into is a strike-only theme or a knockout-focused team.
Sorry, MT isn't strike-only I meant strike-heavy.
Oh, they also fit into the physical vs mental theme (both physical) and into offensive vs defensive theme (both offensive though Muay thai certainly has defensive maneuvres).
The point is that in terms of themes that can be here (given the three dead Townies and the fact I know Earth as Judo is Town along with me as Kung Fu), boxing cannot fit any theme and really should be on the opposite side of Muay Thai to have any real 'clash' or types based on whatever cryptic theme there is.
I just thought of a theme.
This theme instantly makes Sambo and Boxing implicated together.
If the theme is that the martial art is not specifically designed to vs itself primarily but as a self-defense inclusively against other types of fighter, then Boxing and Sambo really fit the theme as scum.
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@RationalMadman
@That2User
oh. I didn't understand what role That2 was then.
Regardless Whiteflame would still have both RM and Earth investigating him in this plan. He can't kill both if he's lying about being cop. Unless you want to argue a roleblocker would stop one of RM/Earth and scum team kills the other. That may be possible, but then if that happens you can still just lynch Whiteflame anyways for not cooperating.
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@Mharman
Regardless Whiteflame would still have both RM and Earth investigating him in this plan. He can't kill both if he's lying about being cop. Unless you want to argue a roleblocker would stop one of RM/Earth and scum team kills the other. That may be possible, but then if that happens you can still just lynch Whiteflame anyways for not cooperating.
Will WF even be in control of not cooperating at this point?
Regardless Whiteflame would still have both RM and Earth investigating him in this plan. He can't kill both if he's lying about being cop. Unless you want to argue a roleblocker would stop one of RM/Earth and scum team kills the other. That may be possible, but then if that happens you can still just lynch Whiteflame anyways for not cooperating.
WF dies in DP2/NP2/DP3
Let's make this sequence:
WF lives in DP2 via VTNL, RM/Earth is roleblocked, mafia kills the other in NP2, WF is lynched DP3 bc not cooperating, WF is town
Suddenly we lose 2 town, making it 2v2 in NP3, mafia team kills one town and mafia wins
Alt sequence:
WF is VTLd DP2, WF is town, RM/Earth is roleblocked, the other is killed in NP2, it's 3v2 LYL0, but WF isn't the auto lynch, giving town time to find out who mafia is
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@That2User
Wdym?
Are you concerned Whiteflame is town and then scum team kills him to stop the info from coming out? If that is your concern, then that would mean Whiteflame would flip town as cop, and then we have to info we need to eliminate RM next DP, since if Whiteflame is town RM is definitely scum, given what they have claimed. Seriously. This is the one test that would prove which investigative role (RM or Whiteflame) is fake claiming and RM is against it when it can be so easily done and impossible to counter if he really believes Whiteflame is scum anyway.
If you are concerned about mafia keeping Whiteflame alive to frame him, then that just leaves Whiteflame able to cop a mafioso and catch them, which I don't think the scum team would do, and even if they do, then them killing Whiteflame would mean that they have at least one of Earth's or RM's results to contend with. If they have roleblocker, they can't block both.
If Earth dies and RM gets roleblocked, then Whiteflame can be lynched anyways since a scum team (as I've already covered in the second paragraph of this post) would not leave him alive if Whiteflame is really a town cop, so then we would conclude Whiteflame is scum.
There's no way for this test to fail. Also, why not try it anyways? If you're wrong on Whiteflame being scum here we lose the game. By at least voting to not lynch, the test can be run and we'll know for sure.
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@That2User
Let's make this sequence: WF lives in DP2 via VTNL, RM/Earth is roleblocked, mafia kills the other in NP2, WF is lynched DP3 bc not cooperating, WF is town
Then that means Whiteflame is town, Earth is town, and RM is town. Since you would know you are town, you could easily conclude from your perspective it's Supa and I by POE. So the scum team would still be figured out. So that's not a concern either.
No matter who you are, if you believe you are town, then you should know we'll have the scum team caught by voting to not lynch as long as we run the test.
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@Mharman
Nope, a NL only helps mafia if they have a redirector or some kind of tricking/roleblocking role of ANY kind.
Let me justify why at this point I absolutely have zero pro-town reason to accept a NL.
A NL with a 100% clear, Earth, from my perspective does NOT achieve shit. Earth will die (because if I die, Earth is clear) and then the game proceeds as follows:
The cc between me and whiteflame intensifies, enabling him much more room to manipulate the desperation and panic by pointing out how Supa has been laidback and knowing that mharman doubts and isn't quite sure he is scum (if he isn't his partner and this isn't feigned) which increases the odds that under such pressure it fucks Town over as Supa turns up and begins interacting under severe pressure, which in the past he has made dumb af decisions other and if he is scum, it doesn't help a thing because the pressure on WF vs me completely lets him lay back until the threeway regardless.
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@Mharman
If Earth dies and RM gets roleblocked, then Whiteflame can be lynched anyways since a scum team (as I've already covered in the second paragraph of this post) would not leave him alive if Whiteflame is really a town cop, so then we would conclude Whiteflame is scum.
Sure, and then? how did this help anything vs lynching him today, from my perspective?
Lynching him today is the only way that Scum can utilise a roleblocker effectively enough to enable a cruise.
Also, The vanilla is probably Supadudz, not you, given his inactivity and the fact the NP ended. Yes, I just hinted at both the martial art BJJ and that he'd be 'vanilla-esque' or at least lacking night action before he outed.
Yes, that seems scummy but I am not stupid enough for that to be a towntell or scumtell for me, I'd never ever out that only as scum, I consistently out theories like this in games in the past and already know you will say it's sketchy I'm doing it.
I want 100% openness, 0hidden because I don't need to hide or slant a thing. I have a 100% clear tracker, we lynch the fake cop.
You know why I think you claimed vanilla? Ninja doesn't visit.
Ninja counters tracker and strongman counters literally every protective role because strong man doesn't only cut through doc-type protection, I know from: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Strongman#:~:text=Strongman%20is%20a%20role%20modifier,protective%20roles%2C%20nor%20by%20Roleblocks. and experience in Mafia, it cuts through everything.
It is like Camille's Ultimate move in league of legends, which traps the other person 100% no matter what regardless of all other game mechanics but instead of trapping, strongman kills.
Ninja and Strongman combo has no reason to NL, it doesn't do a single beneficial thing more than me forcing the whiteflame lynch here and then proceeding.
Think. Reason it. There is zero gain and only a potential loss if they have instead got a roleblocker or redirector.
We are not VTNL'ing unless the times runs out. Let's not be idiots.
WF claims a cop when RM soft claimed an investigative last DP
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@Vader
I hardclaimed... Last dp...
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@RationalMadman
A NL with a 100% clear, Earth, from my perspective does NOT achieve shit. Earth will die (because if I die, Earth is clear) and then the game proceeds as follows:The cc between me and whiteflame intensifies, enabling him much more room to manipulate the desperation and panic by pointing out how Supa has been laidback and knowing that mharman doubts and isn't quite sure he is scum
Fine. If this scenario happens, we can all lynch Whiteflame, and I will vote for Whiteflame too. But only on one condition: You vote to not lynch this DP AND use your power to get results in the night (if you have it). You can even use it on Whiteflame and me if you want. That way, once Whiteflame is lynched, my affiliation can be tested if he's guilty (If he's innocent the game ends with a mafia win). You results will confirm it. If you are roleblocked, then just lynch me then for telling you to do this, since the plan failing like this would likely make me scum.
I am leaning more toward WF being scum but I have to reread. I've used Justice before and that's the name given. I think either RM or WF are scum and right now I'm leaning toward WF. If WF were to claim striking and attacking, I would say it is more believable, but you do not box in MMA, so I find it hard to believe Lunatic would call striking someone as boxing
And note, these are all elements of MMA fighting, kung fu, etc.
I still would like to read up a bit more though
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@Vader
WTF kind of reasoning is that.
Also claim immediatley FULL CLAIM IMMEDIATELY
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@Mharman
Here are the worst case scenarios and my airtight logic:
- Mafia has a role that can vote with extra power at one point in the game (meaning this is lylo)
- Mafia has a ninja, which means instead of killing Earth, all they need to do is kill me (I reckon NP1 they used Strongman, fearing all sorts of protective powers and left me alive hoping to cc me with relative ease, since that is instantly what WF did and when he did so he even said 5v2 showing he barely read the OP and it was preplanned as he hadn't clocked it was 4v2).
- No offense but based on past performance, Earth doesn't hammer or cut through themes and reading as well as I do, there is no humble way to say it. I want to be the hardcarry hammer, over Earth. Even if we remove people from the equation, if we kill Whiteflame, he's either strongman or ninja blatantly due to what a 'KO punch' is in terms of power and speed, based on what he is, it will be telling who dies. If the remaining person is not ninja, then if Earth tracks the other and they don't visit, they're lucky but if not they lose, however they're absolutely blackmailed to kill me because of how OP my power is in endgames.
- The scum has a roleblocker, rendering this not only useless but enabling all sorts of fakeclaim of being roleblocked or not roleblocked and a redirector or something really skewing what goes on the next NP and making the real investigative role look scummier.
- I CAN WIN (probablistically ) NOW BY FORCING THIS. There is only contingent worries on the other side of a NL and zero gain, absolutley fucking zero for me individually/selfishly/egotistically and Town from my selfless perspective too. There is every single reasonf or me to force this aggressively and zero, absolutely zero, reason for me to lay off whiteflame. Boxing does not fit the theme at all, no possible theme can work with Boxing as Town here and cop and parity cop? With clear tracker on top? That's bastard modding.
Mafia has a role that can vote with extra power at one point in the game (meaning this is lylo)
In that case it would go away at MYLO/LYLO, as has been the trend in Lunatic's games.
Mafia has a ninja, which means instead of killing Earth, all they need to do is kill me (I reckon NP1 they used Strongman, fearing all sorts of protective powers and left me alive hoping to cc me with relative ease, since that is instantly what WF did and when he did so he even said 5v2 showing he barely read the OP and it was preplanned as he hadn't clocked it was 4v2).
If that's the case then Whiteflame will show up to Earth as "not visiting anyone" and therefore would be lying about cop, resulting in an instant Whiteflame lynch.
No offense but based on past performance, Earth doesn't hammer or cut through themes and reading as well as I do, there is no humble way to say it. I want to be the hardcarry hammer, over Earth. Even if we remove people from the equation, if we kill Whiteflame, he's either strongman or ninja blatantly due to what a 'KO punch' is in terms of power and speed, based on what he is, it will be telling who dies. If the remaining person is not ninja, then if Earth tracks the other and they don't visit, they're lucky but if not they lose, however they're absolutely blackmailed to kill me because of how OP my power is in endgames.
So you don't trust Earth here, your 100% town read? You may not believe in Earth, but I'm pretty sure they'll watch Whiteflame in the night if we do this plan. They're not stupid.
The scum has a roleblocker, rendering this not only useless but enabling all sorts of fakeclaim of being roleblocked or not roleblocked and a redirector or something really skewing what goes on the next NP and making the real investigative role look scummier.
Then we just lynch Whiteflame and I'll go with it too. Again, if you are the one roleblocked and can't tell I can also be a lynch target next DP. I am really this confident in the plan.
I CAN WIN (probablistically ) NOW BY FORCING THIS. There is only contingent worries on the other side of a NL and zero gain, absolutley fucking zero for me individually/selfishly/egotistically and Town from my selfless perspective too. There is every single reasonf or me to force this aggressively and zero, absolutely zero, reason for me to lay off whiteflame. Boxing does not fit the theme at all, no possible theme can work with Boxing as Town here and cop and parity cop? With clear tracker on top? That's bastard modding.
Or we can lose the game because you are wrong again. At least with the test there will be more information, especially given that your concerns here are not actually concerning.
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@Mharman
At least with the test there will be more information
What info will we gain with the test?
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@Mharman
Then we just lynch Whiteflame and I'll go with it too. Again, if you are the one roleblocked and can't tell I can also be a lynch target next DP. I am really this confident in the plan.
Wait wait why would you be okay with being lynched DP3?
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@Mharman
Ik why WF living is implicating, why it makes sense that he's lynched, but why you?
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@Mharman
Why would town VTL a vanilla town?