MMA Mafia DP2

Author: Lunatic

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RationalMadman
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Btw there is an alternative split that still makes total sense.

Grappling being in the martial art makes it town.

Boxing and Karate is the team in that case. However, this would be such an easy-to-guess theme and have absolutely no PM structure indocation

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@whiteflame
I am sure anybody can see it is odd how you keep pandering to somebody you should be leading a lynch on or at least heavily suspecting if ypu were really the cop.

Instead, your entire series of interactions after I voted you are to make me feel insecure about my vote amd reasoning. This fits perfectly with your DP1 behaviour in fact.
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@whiteflame
If you are town, (I am not really considering it but I am curious what you will reply)

What is the theme split?
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@Earth
You were correct, to my surprise I cannot be tricked by framing, lawyering or godfather.


This means Earth is 100% clear.
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Since there is a tracker, a ninja males sense (and, no shit it probably will be ninjutsu or bpxing males sense as you dont see the punch coming).
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Makes*
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@Mharman
My role is called Justice not Judge btw
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@RationalMadman
I am sure anybody can see it is odd how you keep pandering to somebody you should be leading a lynch on or at least heavily suspecting if ypu were really the cop.

Instead, your entire series of interactions after I voted you are to make me feel insecure about my vote amd reasoning. This fits perfectly with your DP1 behaviour in fact.
RM, at what point did you think I was pandering to you? I'm getting more and more reason to suspect you, so well done there, but my only goal in responding to you is to address what you believe makes me sus. I don't agree that I would automatically heavily suspect you on the basis that you are the Justice and I am the Cop. This would not be the first time that Luna set up the roles in a distinct way, and I don't see the combination of a Justice and a Cop as absurd. I do, however, see having a Watcher/Tracker, Cop and Justice as problematic, so yes, I have reason to suspect that either you or Earth are scum at this point, and based on your responses to him and me, I'm suspecting you more at the moment. 

Throughout this DP and the last one, my only goal has been to try to understand the theme split and, absent any clear split, focus on behavioral choices and claims that make each player stand out. I'm not responding to you to make you feel insecure and I don't know why you're personalizing this. I'm trying to understand where you're coming from and why you are so solid in your conclusion, in part because there are 4 other people in this game besides the two of us and it would be great if they had a clearer decision to make based on the available information. If I'm one of the prime suspects, so be it. I don't even care if you refuse to change your vote, but if you're going to be this obstinate, justify it to convince others. So far, most of what I've seen are assertions about the likely roles in the game, more questionable theme analysis with (I'll give this to you) some willingness to consider alternatives, and some weak behavioral tells based largely on you not liking my analyses. If that convinces people, great, but I don't think it's going to do you many favors.

If you are town, (I am not really considering it but I am curious what you will reply)

What is the theme split?
I've suggested two before, though you dismissed both of them as gaslighting. Of those two, I'd still consider geography. I initially thought that this meant Japanese martial arts against others, and at this point any difference is going to be at least somewhat arbitrary. 

As for alternatives at this point, I wouldn't say that there's any obvious theme split based on the given roles, though I think at least one of them is fake. We haven't seen Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or Taekwondo, both of which are listed as primary fighting styles among champions. I suspect that at least the former is in this game, and if so, either Judo or Sambo, as both are ground fighting techniques, would fit into the split between those and other styles. It seems more common in Sambo, though I could see that split going either way.

I'm not seeing a good reason to go by any suggested split so far, though, including these. There are plenty of ways we could isolate two of the martial arts from the rest and they would all lead us to different conclusions. We have more information that is more solid than our purported splits. Your grappling theme split, for example, depends on how you define it. Grappling occurs in boxing, just not offensively. Muay Thai isn't all that different in this respect, though it does have clinch holds.

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My justification is something like Judo involves watching opponents moves and use their momentum against them.
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@Earth
That adds up (to my suggested theme) and even further implicates boxing but admittedly at this point that is confirmation bias on my part.

Judo, Aikido and Kung Fu all heavily rely on using the opponent's style and strength against them.

Muay Thai is a bit of a hot potato because while everything about it screams sheer offense, the way they go about things in Muay Thai is observant exploiting of mistakes by the opponent, which involves direct blocking, grappling and kneeing into a kicking leg etc.

It is ultimately reactive/disarming.

Sambo and Karate are both very murky but I do buy that Karate is defensive in Luna's eyes. There are styles of Karate that go more proactive and less reactive (not just Cobra Kai lol) but ultimately Karate is not about being mon-reactive at all.

They even train in Karate dojos to never flinch or overpredict moves, only observe and rapidly react (literally training to NOT flinch to repeated feigned strikes so qas to keep reflexes reactive and fluid and not predictive and in turn exploitable by baiting the flinch)
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Wrestling definitely is about incapacitation and ruining the opponent's style working effectively.
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The while page if I could. 

He discusses 18+ stuff and is essentially harassing poly but if you read and dont realisehow offensive it is then we probably fundamentally diffee

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Fuck I am on phone I meant to PM this about a user to Ragnar. Luckily that user doesnt give a shit about this game.

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@Earth
I just caught onto something.

The reasoning behind the role of Sambo being Vanilla, according to Mharman, is that only one specific named MMA guy does it.

The reasoning behind the role, even in Wylted's, where names get mentioned, is always about the martial art, never specific people.

The PM structure that That2User offered where the defense and blocking were explored in Karate, seems much more likely to be how the role vanilla gets justified, given the other PMs and even my own.
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@That2User
Can you explain how Lunatic talks about your role in the PM? Be as detailed as you can without directly quoting the line.
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@Earth
They dont track moves that much in Judo btw.

Anyway, can you explain how the PM went like the opening?
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If muay thai wasnt town, I would heavily consider karate to be scum btw because I would assume it was defensive vs offensive.

I am very torn as I do not  personally think that Karate is that defensive for a martial art at all, it is possible that Karate and Boxing being offensive was made clear in their PMs and whiteflame and That2User cracked the theme fast, leading to That2 working out how to claim.the real martial art in an extremely Towny way for later on.

That said, the way Sambo's link to vanilla is described is so odd.
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One thing I notice is that Sambo is irrefutably a defensive martial art on balance, whereas I am perplexed as to why the word defense is used in the PM for Karate, yet it is not a protective role?
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Sambo is also fundamentally about patiently (but admittedly proactively) exploiting mistakes of the opponent, whereas Karate involves forcing wins through deadly combos.

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The team is Whiteflame and one of Karate or Sambo, I genuinely am not so sure which but Mharman grilled me well throughout the game.

That2User has been very reserved to the point of nearly zero real contribution beyond quotes, claiming fast and voting with me DP1.
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@RationalMadman
What are you asking?
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Supa is Town no matter what because the theme split makes no sense at all if both Sambo and Karate are Town, there is no theme that makes sense.
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@Earth
How did Lunatic introduce your Martial Art before explaining the reason for role

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@RationalMadman
It says Judo is all about watching and tracking how my opponent moves around.
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@Earth
Well I know you are town because of my report but in my opinion Lunatic really worded the PMs too cryptic to have ever cracked the theme until at least 2 Townies were already dead.
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@Lunatic

Day phase will end in 72 hours, or on Saturday March 29th, at 10:00 PM CST. 

I assume you mean Tuesday?
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@RationalMadman
"One thing I notice is that Sambo is irrefutably a defensive martial art on balance, whereas I am perplexed as to why the word defense is used in the PM for Karate, yet it is not a protective role?"
Karate is a protective role, (I only soft claimed being vanilla)
Karate is an MA mainly trained for self defense, I'm protective
I have to word what was said in my DM pretty carefully because it has so few words
I'm going to protect Earth this night, if Earth dies in NP2 kill me DP3
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@That2User
Why tf would Earth die? I will die unless this ends in NL in which case nobody will die (and you if you are mafia can arrange who dies anyway).
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I have no character/fighter mentioned in my DM, what is weird is that Mha's DM to being Vanilla includes a Sambo fighter's famous MMA loss, which makes 0 sense, but I'm inclined to believe Mha being vanilla because I'm not vanilla so it's highly likely Mha is vanilla, the DM justification is so out of left field I highly doubt mafia would make it up as a fake claim, and MMA fights explained Muay Thai's and wrestling's roles

The only slate that saves me in description is:
 ComputerNerd: Aikido- 2x Role Reverser- Town
That2User:Karate-(Protective Role)-Town

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@RationalMadman
"Why tf would Earth die?"
Speaking about NP2, Earth is the only 100% town, it makes the most sense that Earth is killed NP2, being the 100% town it makes the most sense to protect Earth too