MMA Mafia DP2

Actually this makes a lot of sense if you are scum with Mharman.

You easily hit Pie, Pie vig-killed Incel and what you hoped was that Incel would be around along with Earth. Unfortunately your roleblocker was roleblocked by Incel, that is the only explanation of why my role worked.

Actually idk if this is cheating but I saw people do this before here qnd ger away with it.

Supa probably cannot be scum, he was not active to do the killing so rapidly.

I'm really just lost on how you're explaining things in this DP.

You have evidence that what you thought was the theme split was most definitely not that split, and now you're shifting to a position regarding which martial arts take initiative and are aggressive? That's not true of all fighters who use either of these martial arts. In any martial art, someone is always required to take some initiative. You even acknowledged earlier that Sambo can be either defensive or offensive, but suddenly put it in the entirely offensive category later. And you're also missing the most obvious example that contradicts you: Muay Thai is extremely aggressive and focuses heavily on strikes, yet we now know that it was a town role. Somehow, you decided that it wasn't worth bringing that up.

I also just generally don't understand how you see the order of events.

You're upset that I didn't CC you? Having multiple investigative roles in a single game would not be a first, especially given that the Justice role doesn't exactly give us a lot to go off of. I also wasn't going to out myself as a target for either an RB or an NK, and I'm not sure why you think that would have been the townie choice to make. Even if all I did was say that I was investigative, the moment you revealed your role, I would have become the prime target because, frankly, there wasn't a whole lot of information we could glean from your results unless we knew one of your targets was town. I also made very clear what I thought of mass claims in DP1.

You think that I'm scum and I'm partnering with Mharman? If so, why would I draw more attention to him by claiming that I investigated him? As scum, I would be trying to create as much distance as possible. Look at my previous games where I was scum. Hell, as scum, I have claimed to cop someone guilty before to get off a quick lynch. Why wouldn't I do that here? Why would I drag out the DP?

And I don't at all get why you're dismissing Supa as an option when Mafia PMs are sent in Discord, especially since it still took an overnight for all actions to be submitted.

So how did your PM go?

You’ve been wrong all game dude, but now you’re certain that you’re right because you’ve divined yet another arbitrary and puzzling theme split. And you wonder why you can’t form a wagon.

Either way, we vote whiteflame and use his role to estimate.

It is a framer not a lawyer, scum are offensive martial arts.

I was not wrong all game. It is easy to sit on the fence and not vote.

Let's analyse how right I have been:

Let's actually talk about what 'all game' is and what you have done all game.

There is not one post from you in DP1 that isn't passive-aggressive gaslighting this game. The entire day phase, you were dedicated to sowing seeds of doubt and pitting others against each other.

Today, you proceed to not even suspect me (major scumslip) despite you being an investigative PR in a 9-person game with three dead Town PRs already, meaning the pool of PRs is much lower now as 2 vanillas would be sensible). You then correct me on townreading Supa due to a fast night phase, instantly pointing out that mafia are communicating via Discord and that therefore site activity is irrelevant.

Not only does the knee-jerk 'but they communicate on Discord' seem like something a scum would immediately say defensively but the fact you didn't clock that if scum were active to do the night actions on Discord, they'd come onto the site to read (and register as online) and that it just isn't likely that the vice president of the website would sign out sneakily to not log on and see his activity, seems peculiar af to me.

I was willing to drop the OGI analysis as I am abusing a leniency on this website regarding it but if you're going to really dig in and make me feel stupid or insane, I will bite back hard too and play dirty to win.

Vice mod* whatever

This is evidence that you constructed your claiming post to this thread rapidly trying to feign genuine activity. I made a similar error as I acted fast too but it seems odd that someone as 'think before I talk' as you forgot this is 4-2, not 5-2.

As Town you'd surely have noticed but because you're scum and I reckon Scum only has one nightkill and that Incel died via Pie's vig power, you didn't think 2 had died and felt you didn't need to read the OP before typing.

I did made a mistake voting Pie because I just skimread the OP, saw the dead guy was Incel, realised that makes Earth Town and was like 'damn it had to be Pie' which is admittedly wrong thinking but I also was curious how others would react. The point I'm making isn't that skimreading is a flaw in itself, it's that it's very odd for you to do as Town.

You really need to become active, this day phase is crucial to the game.

You do understand that VTNL only will result in either me dying or Scum NKing themselves right?

I know it may be pro-scum to point this out but the last action was a nightkill action, meaning the onus is on us as Town to act. The reason I am absolutely okay with outing this is that I believe that at best I die (which is shit from my perspective, you guys seem confused about the game and we really need to hone in on scum) and at worst Scum no-kills and I become falsely framed because you wonder why are they doing that unless they're townread (which is faulty thinking).

We lynch here no matter what, you need to absolutely force the scum's hand, we need to know which type of scum utility Whiteflame's role had (and even the way the PM linked his martial art to his role) to quickly get an idea about Karate and Sambo. 

As I said, I would completley buy boxing being framer (even 1x framer like a 1x knockout) and incel being framed. This would be a very optimal move from whiteflame's perspective as scum given how Day phase one went and what my role is.

This then would mean I have actually false-cleared Earth not via defensive lawyering but by a chain reaction result of the framing on Incel.

I did what I did because like I said, time was short and we needed a lynch. Given the inactivity of Supa and the very small amount of activity from Earth, I felt getting a lynch on Wylted (who I preferred to lynch by the end of DP1 over CNerd) was next to impossible because there was only two people voting him. So that just left CNerd. I figured he would flip town, but DP1 a no-lynch harms us more than a mislynch because of the lack of information.

How so? The way I see it, no scum team is dumb enough to fake a cop claim. It is by far one of the riskiest things that they could claim.

How is ot risky... therw are 6 of us.

I claimed to be the investigative PR, you blatantly implied we dont clash role-wise...

Actually, please full claim rn.

Anyway, there was literally zero risk here. Supadudz even directly addressed me and didnt mention any role clash at all.

Even better, if there IS a cop then the CC makes whiteflame look townier as he claimed first.

Because we are at an even number right now in a 9-player setup (so there HAS to be 2 scum) AND in MYLO. Lynching at a 4v2 is mathematically and informationally a terrible idea. With a vote to not lynch, The odds of hitting scum mathematically in the DP3 lynch jump from 33% to 40% AND we get one more NK to analyze before lynching, which should increase our odds of hitting scum even further, especially since it makes it even harder for the scum team because they have less townies to accuse.

Please fullclaim rn

Hey, remember when you said:

Because I do, and yet somehow you both have the time to go back and forth at length and have been chiefly talking to me! It's almost like this was an excuse that you immediately discarded solely for the reason that you felt you had to justify drawing more attention to me over things that you conveniently never noted before.
 
You know why I didn’t automatically sus you at the start of the DP? I did provide a brief statement to this effect in DP1, but I’ll clarify: I’ve seen your scum style and I’ve noted a couple of pretty obvious tells that I haven’t seen here. I also see all your play here, at least up to this point, as pretty obviously town. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen you do it, and I have a hard time believing that you’d do this as scum. So no, much as you seem to be very much into mod psych and how many investigative roles there must be in this game, I don’t feel that all of these behavioral tells were immediately overwhelmed by the knowledge that you were Justice. It’s a weak informative role, and I’d personally be shocked if it was the sole informative town role in this game. Maybe you wouldn’t, but for the life of me, I can’t fathom why.
 
But just because it’s townie behavior doesn’t mean it’s pro-town. You’ve been pushing single-minded theme splits this whole game with barely any reasoning that goes against what we already know or draws artificial lines that don’t make sense, and now you’re giving yourself a pat on the back for calling ComputerNerd right and eventually recognizing that Pie might be town? I’m not calling you stupid or insane, but I am saying that you’re stubborn to a fault. I have my moments too, but you spent the entirety of both DPs dismissing any and all alternative possibilities for a theme split on the basis that you have been absolutely certain (now twice) of entirely different theme splits based on partial knowledge of the martial arts in this game and a clearly misinterpreted message from Luna. I spent my DP1 considering thematic options that you dismissed without explanation (even when they overlapped with yours), examining individual claims and looking at behavior. You might not like those methods, but they’re not gaslighting and I didn’t pit anyone against each other. Dismissing options for who could be scum in this DP seems to be your MO, since you’ve now set aside Supa almost entirely and haven’t even talked about Earth.
 
What baffles me the most, though, is how you’re setting me up as scum. I’m simultaneously too knee-jerk in response your statements about not sussing Supa (despite the fact that he’d be on a scum team and therefore wouldn’t need to be online himself), but not knee-jerk enough to immediately sus you when you claimed an investigative role. It’s townie if you miss Pie’s Vig, but my missing it in the first of several posts I’ve made on here is a scum tell, despite the fact that if I was scum, I’d be in chat with another scum that would help prevent these kinds of mistakes. For some reason, my full claiming is feigning genuine activity to you, despite the fact that you dragged out your claim through almost the entirety of DP1. I don't know why you're treating me as some kind of perfectionist when it comes to writing each post for this game or any previous one, but you seem extremely willing to sus me over oversights that you've fully admitted to making yourself.

Because cop is very common in a lot of games. Same thing with doctor.

If you are talking DP1 when I townread you, that was based on the idea that A) ComputerNerd is town, so unusual characters are not a sign of being scum (which still holds up) and B) Your behavior fits your claimed role.

And it's the latter that bothers me now. Your behavior no longer matches that role. You're all over the place. You went from Pie to me to Whiteflame to Earth. We haven't even got your result from last night, which makes me doubt you even have the role you say you do now. I should've listened to Pie when he said you have zero credibility in your theme analysis. It's clearly true, given Wylted's flip and the fact that's you can't pin a solid theme or player down worth anything. With that being said, I think you made it up to control the game and setup a false narrative of CNerd vs. Wylted, especially since Judge would be a new role to Lunatic's games and has never appeared on this site period. In my analysis of Lunatic's games back in Ozark Mafia, not once did he introduce a new role in the games I analyzed.

Considering everything so far, all of this now, you are now at the very top of my list for scumreads.

As for the other teammate, my current theory is That2, given how you accepted him and said he was town with no question whatsoever, and is pretty much piggybacking you at this point. Supa remains a wild card however, given his inactivity and That2's piggybacking could easily be town sheeping if it's Supa, which I can also see.

Regardless, I still want to vote to not lynch because of the aforementioned mathematics and the aforemention bonus night kill to analyze. It is easily the best option and all can still be discussed this DP and the entire next one if we vote to not lynch.

As for claiming? Sure. I am vanilla because Sambo has had many hyped up UFC fighters (Dennis Siver and his infamous loss to Conor McGregor were the example given in my role PM) yet only one champion who uses it often in the form of Khabib Nurmagomedov.

What do you mean? I told you my role's report is Incel-Chud/Wylted and Earth are balanced AKA same side.

If you feel my behaviour doesn't match the role, idc tbh. I don't get why I wouldn't be anything I've been in my role.

I am not all over the place anymore at all.

I have been crystal clear with my vote and stance.

If you are not all over the place in a themed setup with closed roles on DP1, you are probably scum or lucky as fuck.

You should be open to all possibilities and behaviour-reasoning and hone in from chaos and reactions piecing together like a complex puzzle. That's how Town should think and read. Scum goes from structured to chaotic.

I don't think Parity Cop can be Lawyered.

Anyway, I am Judo, and I can Track or Watcher someone every night. I saw Pie visit Incel.

Ok I will ask it officially in PM (he told me off for asking publicly before)

tell more about the PM

Also there would never be what you call parity cop (in this game called justice), a cop AND a tracker in same game, agree?

How did he justify the link between your role and martial art btw?

I can buy there being a tracker and alignment checker in same game, but not a cop and my role.

As for theme, if he really is the martial art he claimed, he is scum and if he lied he's scum.

Boxing can't be town, read the description and notice the pattern:

Disarming and/or incapacitating.

Boxing specialises in sheer offense and dodging.

So, let me get this straight:

You're sussing me partly because I refused to CC you in DP1 over your investigative role, but now that Earth's doing it (much later and with a result that we already knew before he said anything), that doesn't matter anymore?

Interesting as well that you decided to ask Earth what justification there is between his role and martial art, but automatically assumed that there was no reasonable justification connecting mine. By the by, it's justified as being hugely important in the octagon, separating the fakers from the contenders.

And here I thought you were only applying your double standard to you and me. Really making me question that behavioral read on you at this point.

Again, this is based on a selective understanding of each of these martial arts that draws arbitrary lines in the sand, utterly ignores highly offense-oriented martial arts like Muay Thai that are clearly town, and you can't even seem to decide where others like Sambo fit.