The liberal need to "do something"

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#121
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@RationalMadman
I do not support Vladimir Putin, nor am I sympathetic to his cause.  That being said, a distinction must be made between what Putin is doing and what "Russia" as such is doing.  Russians want nothing of this so called "military operation." 

My sympathy is with the Ukrainian people, who are being subject to senseless violence over what is essentially a power-struggle between neoliberals in Washington and Putin over control of the European natural gas market.  

My sympathy is also with the Russian people, whose sons are being sent to die in Ukraine based on a lie even more brightly shining than that which impelled the United States into Vietnam.  

So it's complicated. 
#122
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If people want to understand my politics, I am anti-authoritarian.  And yes, support for COVID-countermeasures like lockdowns will make me vote against anyone.  


#123
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@coal
 essentially a power-struggle between neoliberals in Washington and Putin over control of the European natural gas market.  
What is so weird is that this isn't being shown on any news network, be it right wing or left wing media. It's like the truth is being censored across the board.

#124
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@Dr.Franklin
Catholic values.

Said the Bishop to the Choirboy.
#125
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@coal
Anti-authoritarian is authoritarian.

It's just you forcing you values on others.

Which is why we have "Western" style, democracy, rather than Sino-Soviet style Authoritarianism.

You Dart boys are such freedom fighters.

Fighting to free the free from the free to enslave the free


And of course the good thing is.......You're free to do so.
#126
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@zedvictor4
Yours is probably the stupidest comment I've read on this site in a while.  Go chase your tail somewhere else. 
#127
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@Greyparrot
What is so weird is that this isn't being shown on any news network, be it right wing or left wing media. It's like the truth is being censored across the board.
There are folks who have figured it out.  But the problem is that any discussion over natural gas in Ukraine starts to open up uncomfortable questions related to Hunter Biden, which is why the American media do not discuss it.  

#128
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@coal
The answer of a person with no answer.
#129
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@zedvictor4
I'm Catholic. Deal with it
#130
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@zedvictor4
Anti-authoritarian doesn't mean pro democracy. That's why he dismissed your post.
#131
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@Greyparrot
@zedvictor4
@Dr.Franklin
[Dr.Franklin] unrestricted freedom
That is a profoundly useless formula. Essentially: X can be anything except what it isn't. Equally applicable to Himler's idea of proper freedom and John Brown's.

So much better to engage in a Jan 6th style insurrection,
[Greyparrot] America was founded on an insurrection.
Indeed it was, not only that with the new and CIA approved definition of "terrorism" the insurrection was preceded by terrorism.

[zedvictor4] Anti-authoritarian is authoritarian.
Sure looks like a contradiction to me.
#132
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@Greyparrot
@ADreamOfLiberty
So check out the World and show me a Nation that is not ordered by authority.

So we basically have democratic authority and order, or tyrannical authority and order.

And occasionally some Nations descend into a sort of chaotically ordered multi-authority. Somalia for example.

So in whosoever's head exists a notion of righteousness, also exists a notion of authoritarian superiority.

And coal has always been a dismisser of posts that they (avoid) deem unworthy of their time....Such is their own internal sense of superior righteousness and authority.
#133
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@Dr.Franklin
Hey, any label will do Doc.

But the Catholic label is a tarnished label, and will be so for along time to come.

Especially if it persists in the suppression of human sexuality.

Sex will always out in some way or another.

And sadly for the Catholic Church it still has a tendency to out in an inappropriate direction.

So no way can you rest upon Catholic laurels Doc.
#134
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@zedvictor4
So check out the World and show me a Nation that is not ordered by authority
So we basically have democratic authority and order, or tyrannical authority and order

Anti-authority doesn't mean anarchy either. Do you need help here?
#135
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@zedvictor4
So check out the World and show me a Nation that is not ordered by authority.

So we basically have democratic authority and order, or tyrannical authority and order.

And occasionally some Nations descend into a sort of chaotically ordered multi-authority. Somalia for example.
If two guys, a sharp stick, and a demanded behavior is authority then there has never been a time without authority and never will be. That is quite besides the point though, the issue was not whether people claimed to be authorities it was you saying:

Anti-authoritarian is authoritarian.
Authoritarian, the "arian" or "ite" suffixes indicate that it is some kind of purportedly principled political or ethical treatment of various propositions.

A fruitian probably isn't someone who claims there are only fruits and an anti-fruitian is probably not someone who claims there are no fruits.

Whatever you define as an "authoritarian" an "anti-authoritarian" isn't the same thing it's the opposite. If no obvious opposite exists the axis of comparison which results in the greatest negation defines the opposite.

A) If an authoritarian is someone who wishes to impose their personal values on others, then an anti-authoritarian is someone who does not wish anyone to impose personal values on others.

B) If an authoritarian is someone who is willing to use force to impose a moral code, then an anti-authoritarian is someone who does not wish anyone to use force to impose a moral code (pacifist).

So in whosoever's head exists a notion of righteousness, also exists a notion of authoritarian superiority.
This implies an even more unusual definition of authoritarian.

C) If an authoritarian is someone who believes in the superiority of their morality, an anti-authoritarian is someone who believe in the superiority of no morality.

A very useless definition, since the human mind is hardly capable of purging itself of moralization and it is in the definition of "moral" that it is superior to the immoral.

Much like the to oft-relayed "the only thing I know is that I know nothing", but if that's all he knew he would be a poor philosopher and if that's all mankind knew it would have died a long time ago.
#136
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Trouble is.

Your argument has found the need to descend into the realm of semantics.

So like it or not "anti"  just means opposed to or against, which in terms of definition has little or no prerequisites.

A. can oppose B......And B. can oppose A.

And both can deem the other to be authoritarian....Which simply depends upon who finds what authoritarian.

The legal enforcement of liberal values, is no different to the legal enforcement of conservative values....Both can be regarded as oppressive.

The obvious difference though, might be found in the methodology of oppression, rather than in the dictionary.


I would suggest that your view of authoritarianism,  is  gained from a biased viewpoint.

Which of course, is only to be expected.....And not a criticism.


#137
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@Greyparrot
Let me help you.

Anti-authority might mean pro-anarchy.

Or might not.


#138
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@zedvictor4
Trouble is.

Your argument has found the need to descend into the realm of semantics.
Trouble? The trouble is thinking you're going to figure anything out down there in the fog of vaguery and equivocation. Ascend to the realm of formality and precision.

And both can deem the other to be authoritarian....Which simply depends upon who finds what authoritarian.
...but are they both authoritarian?

Must the both be authoritarian?

If it does not serve to differentiate between true or false or between right and wrong of what use is the concept?

The legal enforcement of liberal values, is no different to the legal enforcement of conservative values....Both can be regarded as oppressive.
What can be regarded as X is not necessarily X.
#139
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@ADreamOfLiberty
What can be regarded as X is not necessarily X.
Exactly my point.

Just depends upon which side of a line we view things from.


Ascend to the realm of formality and precision.
Fabulously informal and imprecise.

Just depends...............


But are they both authoritarian?
It they deem it so.


True or false, right and wrong.
For sure......Concepts all.

Which humanity as a whole has never fully agreed upon.
#140
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@zedvictor4
True or false, right and wrong.
For sure......Concepts all.

Which humanity as a whole has never fully agreed upon.
Well let's just stop talking about anything that doesn't have complete consensus behind it. What's the point of talking if not to echo each other exactly?
#141
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Can you think of anything that has complete consensus?
#142
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@zedvictor4
When you are hungry, you crave food.
#143
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@zedvictor4
Can you think of anything that has complete consensus?
I'll remember the <sarcasm> tag next time.
#144
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@RationalMadman
Generally, and under what one might refer to as normal conditions.

But I don't want to get into a discussion about eating disorders.

Or about the self, and what that constitutes.
#145
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Hey, if you want to argue that which is easily argued.
#146
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@ebuc
i guess nobody should ever protest anything the government does
LCZ, Ive never made any such suggestion and your Covid paranoia
when is it "appropriate" to protest ?
#147
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@Greyparrot
Anti-authority doesn't mean anarchy either. Do you need help here?
anarchy doesn't mean "no-rules" either.  do you need help here ?
#148
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@zedvictor4
Can you think of anything that has complete consensus?
(1) PROTECT YOURSELF
(2) PROTECT YOUR FAMILY
(3) PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY
#149
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@3RU7AL
Well, very noble thoughts indeed.


But:

Protect yourself, only requires the consensus of one....So not a consensus really.

Protect your family, depends upon the integrity of the family.

Protect your property.....In the face of extreme adversity, you either fight or flea.
#150
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@zedvictor4
Protect yourself, only requires the consensus of one....So not a consensus really.
try and find an example of a society where the majority agrees that people don't have the right to protect themselves

Protect your family, depends upon the integrity of the family.
each individual defines their "family" differently, it's not necessarily "blood"

corporations and military organizations often co-opt the idea of "family" like the mafia

Protect your property.....In the face of extreme adversity, you either fight or flea.
property is third on the list

the first two take priority