Russia and Ukraine

Author: Dr.Franklin

Posts

Total: 483
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@SirAnonymous
WWJD - "Love thy neighbor" (like, don't invade your neighbor. Pretty fucking simple).

WWBSD - "That invasion that is a direct result of authoritarian interests is so bad, yeah it's so bad daddy. Give me more authoritarianism in the form of a hereditary head of state because that's so bad. Come on, I can take it. Give it to me. Yeah, yeah, I can be bad too daddy. yeaaaaaaah."

This honestly explains a lot about Frankie boy's other stances as well.
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
WWJD - "Love thy neighbor" (like, don't invade your neighbor. Pretty ****ing simple).
You'd think, but apparently not.

I really don't know how someone can complain about Biden being a dictator and yet unironically support a monarchy. Does not compute. It makes me want to slither back down the Illuminati hole from whence I came and pretend I didn't see anything.
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@SirAnonymous
I don't think a Dictator. is necessarily the same thing as a King.

"Under King John’s reign, Clause 39 of Magna Carta became the foundation of the idea that a freeman could not be imprisoned without first being found guilty in a trial by his peers. This later became the idea behind the principle of “trial by jury”"

"A constitutional dictatorship is a form of government in which dictatorial powers are exercised during an emergency. The dictator is not absolute and the dictator's authority remains limited by the constitution. The Roman Republic made provision for a dictator who could govern unchecked for a stipulated period of time."

Of course I'm sure there's different 'types of Monarchies, Dictatorships.
Can't say I know why Dr.Franklin might call Biden a Dictator, or might look fondly on Monarchies.
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@Lemming
That's true. A king can be a dictator, but does not have to be. It still doesn't make a lot of sense.
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@SirAnonymous
I'm sure there's advantages and disadvantages to a monarchy, compared with other systems.
Enough that it'd make sense for some people to prefer it as a form of government, and some prefer it not.
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,673
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@SirAnonymous
Another thought: NATO didn't even have the stomach to continue fighting in Afghanistan against a ragtag collection of terrorists who didn't even have tanks or aircraft, let alone nuclear weapons. What in the world makes you think they are a military threat to Russia?
NATO has undoubtedly increased influence in the past 20 years near the Russian border. This is undeniable
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,997
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@SirAnonymous
Go read some articles explaining why NATO refuses to sanction Russian oil and gas.

Unlike the illuminati, this conspiracy is in plain sight. Ukraine was  doomed the moment it started taking a cut of the energy NATO demands.
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Lemming
The Magna Carta though
The document that the king was forced to sign because the nobles said "sign this or we overthrow you"?

Not reassuring.
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@Dr.Franklin
NATO has undoubtedly increased influence in the past 20 years near the Russian border. This is undeniable
True.

How is that a threat to Russia? Be specific, please.
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
"Defensive alliances are not a threat to me"
- Some dude not planning to invade his neighbor

"Defensive alliances are a threat to me"
- Some douche bag planning to invade his neighbor

So... you are anti-invasion but also anti-defensive alliance?

Hilarious. Tell me another one.
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
That the people have the 'ability to overthrow a corrupt establishment, seems to me a positive.
When a Democracy rots. . . Harder to identify, assign blame, remove complete, effect change in legislation.
Maybe.
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Lemming
That the people have the 'ability to overthrow a corrupt establishment, seems to me a positive.
People almost never have that ability, which is why I criticized you for holding up one of the few times in history they did as an example of it being a good system.

Clearly went way over your head.
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
What do you mean, people almost never have that ability?
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Lemming
What do you mean, people almost never have that ability?

Um... the ability to do that thing that you were talking about people having the ability to do literally ten minutes ago...
valkyrie67
valkyrie67's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 19
0
0
4
valkyrie67's avatar
valkyrie67
0
0
4
I believe that Russia has no right in Ukraine at all. This is Putin’s war. He’s such a greedy megalomaniac. 

valkyrie67
valkyrie67's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 19
0
0
4
valkyrie67's avatar
valkyrie67
0
0
4
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
You are literally brilliant. 
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@valkyrie67
Welcome to the site!
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@valkyrie67
I believe that Russia has no right in Ukraine at all. This is Putin’s war. He’s such a greedy megalomaniac. 

Thought you were another wylted clone until you said that. Welcome to the site, I guess?
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
@valkyrie67
Hm, well since you decline to elaborate, I suppose I'll just suppose that you're wrong about your claim.
Since I'm pretty sure I've heard of regimes being overthrown in history before,
And removing 'one individual seems easier to me, than removing tens of thousands of individuals.

People 'do seem to be responding more negatively to the Ukraine-Russia merger, of Putin,
Than the Austria-Germany merger, of Hitler,
Though maybe there was 'more negativity to Austria-Germany, than I know (I only lightly know of it)
I'm sure there was a fair bit, but that merger went easier than Ukraine is going, I think.
valkyrie67
valkyrie67's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 19
0
0
4
valkyrie67's avatar
valkyrie67
0
0
4
-->
@SirAnonymous
Welcome to the site!
Thank you ❤️
valkyrie67
valkyrie67's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 19
0
0
4
valkyrie67's avatar
valkyrie67
0
0
4
-->
@Lemming
I think Russia should just mind their own business and let the Ukrainians do their own thing. They already took over Crimea, 😑
Discipulus_Didicit
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Debates: 9
Posts: 5,758
3
4
10
Discipulus_Didicit's avatar
Discipulus_Didicit
3
4
10
-->
@Lemming
Since I'm pretty sure I've heard of regimes being overthrown in history before,
Have you heard of unpopular regimes that weren't overthrown? Because I feel like that's a rather important detail.

I won't respond to any more of your posts on the topic, but if you challenge me to a debate on the merits of authoritarianism I will accept it.
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@Lemming
People 'do seem to be responding more negatively to the Ukraine-Russia merger, of Putin,
Than the Austria-Germany merger, of Hitler
Neither of those were mergers. One of those was an invasion, and the other was an annexation. Far be it from me to defend Hitler, but invasions are worse.
valkyrie67
valkyrie67's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 19
0
0
4
valkyrie67's avatar
valkyrie67
0
0
4
-->
@Discipulus_Didicit
Accept that challenge, fellow intellect. 
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@valkyrie67
I can admit to the small picture morality in allowing people to go their own way,
I 'prefer people letting my community or myself go my own way.

But I don't think it's very 'pragmatic, in the large picture.
What has England become but weaker, as it let more and more people go their own way?

And as influence wanes, what becomes of one's influence, in setting the world right, according to one's values?
What does one risk, but becoming subject to 'others values?
Which one might argue is the big picture morality, ends justifying means.
valkyrie67
valkyrie67's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 19
0
0
4
valkyrie67's avatar
valkyrie67
0
0
4
-->
@SirAnonymous
This is exactly what I was about to say. invasions and annexations are not even close to a “merger” 😑
Lemming
Lemming's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,358
4
4
10
Lemming's avatar
Lemming
4
4
10
-->
@SirAnonymous
Fair point, though I meant to use the term merger loosely.

(Edit)
Besides, first definition I see in Google is,
merg·er
/ˈmərjər/
Learn to pronounce

noun

  1. a combination of two things, especially companies, into one.

SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@Lemming
I understand that, but using terms too loosely can obscure their meaning. Mergers are typically mutually agreed on. That is not the case in Ukraine, nor in Austria, although there was more support for it in the Austrian case than there is in the Ukrainian case.
ILikePie5
ILikePie5's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 15,167
3
7
10
ILikePie5's avatar
ILikePie5
3
7
10
-->
@SirAnonymous
True.

How is that a threat to Russia? Be specific, please.
I’d argue it’s the same reason why we didn’t want Cuba to be friends with the USSR. It’s all fun and games until nukes are set up right next to your border.

Whole reason behind Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis.
SirAnonymous
SirAnonymous's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 4,140
3
7
10
SirAnonymous's avatar
SirAnonymous
3
7
10
-->
@ILikePie5
That situation is not analogous to the current one. In the Cold War, there was a constant risk that the other side might attack. There is no risk that NATO will attack Russia.