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@Wylted
Sounds an insulting post to me, #30.
But ah well, I've said what I've said, and don't think I've anymore I want to say.
Genuine Discussions
Posts
Total:
104
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@RationalMadman
I studied German for about a year. Maybe it is because I have been exposed to spanish my whole life, but spanish seems easier to transition than German. Though fortunately we have adopted many words from German to make it easier to learn. Such as Kindergarten. Kinder meaning child.
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@Lemming
Sounds an insulting post to me, #30.
It was meant to be.
But ah well, I've said what I've said, and don't think I've anymore I want to say.
That's the problem. This is a debate site. We aren't here to share opinions, and just make casual statements. Take a position and nut up. epistemic humility has no place on this site.
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@Yassine
- In this thread I will genuinely discuss with you absolutely any topic you wish to discuss, with open-mindedness
How about this?
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@Yassine
Have you heard of Mohammed Hijab. If so, what is your opinion of him?
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@Wylted
@Lemming
I'm unfamiliar with Islam, so I'm unsure of what I offer, 'but,
Yes and this is forgiveness offered to only those that agree convert.
And it is as Wylted suggests :
Wylted wrote: " The earlier books are like that. The book itself says later verses when contradicting the earlier ones, supercede the earlier ones". #17
This is what is known as the abrogation. i.e Muhammed says he was deceived and that these earlier verses were given to him in revelation by the Satan . The book then turns intolerant of, and violent towards, the unbeliever - the kuffar
Islam the 7th century ideology will never be compatible with western civilisation for the simple reason Muslims believe the Quran to be " the last unalterable revelation from god". i.e it cannot reform.
The Rushdi novel affair ( for which there is still a fatwa - bounty - on his head, $6 million the last time I looked) should have been a wake up call for the West, although there were much earlier warnings about the Islamic threat many years before.
Sir
William Muir (1819-1905) said; “the sword of Muhammad and the Quran are the most fatal
enemies of civilisation, liberty and truth which the world has ever
known... an unmitigated cultural disaster parading as God's will".
Winston
Churchill 1874 - 1965: "Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies
in a dog".
William
Gladstone 1809_ 1898 Quran, an accursed book, so long as there is this book there will be
no peace in the world.
Winston
Churchill 1874 – 1965 The
religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily
the religion of peace is usually the better armed. The Mahommedan
religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance.
Propagated by the sword, and a form of madness.
Winston Churchill 1899: “Individual
Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the
religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No
stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”
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@Yassine
What convinced you that Islam is true?
What would convince you that it is false?
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@Wylted
You don't really see Jews flying planes into buildings, or Christians actually beheading muslim reporters and soldiers on camera for fun. There is just one religion that creates these sorts of extremists, who feel they have a duty to kill as many non muslims as humanly possible.
atheists commit all sorts of atrocities
jews commit all sorts of atrocities
christians commit all sorts of atrocities
muslims commit all sorts of atrocities
even god-damned buddhists commit all sorts of atrocities
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@Wylted
That's pretty much what christians were like back when torquemada was murdering thousands of indigenous pagans.
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@Yassine
Do u have much evidence of miracles that have happened in recent years in Islam?
Do u have much evidence of near death experiences that involve Islamic content?
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@Stephen
Say to those who believe that they should forgive those who expect not the days of Allah, as it is for Him to recompense people for what they have earned.
Surah Al-Jathiyah 45:14
Same source I used last time,
All I can say is I'm unfamiliar with Islam,
But given your past statements on Christianity, and our disagreements there,
I find it difficult to consider you a font of knowledge, concerning Islam.
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@Lemming
I find it difficult to consider you a font of knowledge, concerning Islam.
I posted what I know to be fact. Do you consider these statesmen to be "fonts of knowledge concerning Islam"?
Sir William Muir (1819-1905) said; “the sword of Muhammad and the Quran are the most fatal enemies of civilisation, liberty and truth which the world has ever known... an unmitigated cultural disaster parading as God's will".
Winston Churchill 1874 - 1965: "Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog".
William Gladstone 1809_ 1898 Quran, an accursed book, so long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world.
Winston Churchill 1874 – 1965 The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually the better armed. The Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. Propagated by the sword, and a form of madness.
Winston Churchill 1899: “Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”
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@Stephen
Opinions by 'Politicians of the British 'Empire,
Speaking of a religion different than their own, of a culture different than their own, of national powers different than their own.
All religions were made up by Humans to make life livable in such a poorly designed world. I pray that you all find Humanism.
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@FLRW
Unless you were present that's a false statement.
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@Polytheist-Witch
Why do you think Egyptians had 2000 gods and goddesses?
The simplest answer would be that because their parents told them they were real, same as with any other religion. And so it goes on, from one generation to the next. Over time changes happen to the stories and the names, it mixes with other religions, etc. And you can go really far back from there, to summerian gods and from there you could probably trace back to older animist religions.
As for how the myths started in the first place: part of it would be people explaining the world to themselves. Another part would be historic events getting exaggerated and embelished in folk tales and poetry. There’s also a factor of stories that may have been meant as symbolic or methaphorical that started getting taken literally over the centuries. And stories to warn kids where not to go/what not to do - most mythologies are full of those. Then there are also people using divine justifications for power. The list of potential sources can get quite long.
As for how the myths started in the first place: part of it would be people explaining the world to themselves. Another part would be historic events getting exaggerated and embelished in folk tales and poetry. There’s also a factor of stories that may have been meant as symbolic or methaphorical that started getting taken literally over the centuries. And stories to warn kids where not to go/what not to do - most mythologies are full of those. Then there are also people using divine justifications for power. The list of potential sources can get quite long.
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@FLRW
I wish I had half this power that people keep talking about I have. No one in my house practices my religion but me, my children don't practice it, my husband doesn't practice it. My parents didn't practice it because they didn't practice any religion. Yet somehow I'm controlling everybody around me with my religion. I don't understand it at all I must be missing some sort of component that other people have because I basically do my thing and don't bother anybody else. And the people that I do interact with as far as religion or spirituality live the same way none of them have power over anybody else. Guess I really missed out on the important part of it. Maybe if I was more mentally ill I could pick it up.
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@Yassine
Hi Yassine,
I appreciate the sentiments of your post. Will you please stop suggesting that the West is synonymous with Christianity?
Christianity started in the Middle East and although it is true that the West expanded primarily through Christian evangelism - the West has for at least the past 80 years pretty much denounced its historical connection to Christianity.
The West has decided that it is a secular worldview - although sometimes the word multi-cultural - or polytheistic view is bandied about.
Vote for 3RU7AL.
The voice of reason.
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@Yassine
So hypothetically,
Your brother rapes your wife.
Who do you embrace first?
Your brother or your wife.
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@zedvictor4
He isn't the voice of reason. Actually read through his threads. If he were even that, it stands that if somebody is more reasonable, they should be voted for. This thread explains why airmax is a better choice over somebody with a one sentence platform.
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@Lemming
I find it difficult to consider you a font of knowledge, concerning Islam.I posted what I know to be fact. Do you consider these statesmen to be "fonts of knowledge concerning Islam"?Sir William Muir (1819-1905) said; “the sword of Muhammad and the Quran are the most fatal enemies of civilisation, liberty and truth which the world has ever known... an unmitigated cultural disaster parading as God's will".Winston Churchill 1874 - 1965: "Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog".William Gladstone 1809_ 1898 Quran, an accursed book, so long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world.Winston Churchill 1874 – 1965 The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually the better armed. The Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. Propagated by the sword, and a form of madness.Winston Churchill 1899: “Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”Opinions by 'Politicians of the British 'Empire,Speaking of a religion different than their own, of a culture different than their own, of national powers different than their own.
But then you do admit to being;
unfamiliar with Islam#16
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@Wylted
Never heard of Airmax before 2022.
Never trust a stranger, is what I was taught.
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@zedvictor4
Just look at my thread. You can really dig into his background on DEbate.org and you can PM him. He doesn't need to remain unfamiliar
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@Double_R
Why is this not your approach all of the time?
- This is a debate website. I come here to debate & argue. Do you have any topic in mind you wish to discuss?
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@Lemming
I'm unfamiliar with Islam, so I'm unsure of what I offer, 'but,
- Thanks for participating. I like your attitude. Anything you wish to discuss?
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Considering our answer to this has been 'let girls going through an awkward puberty saw their tits off and castrate any young boy who looks sideways at a Barbie', tbh I could go for some more cultural chauvinism and a refusal to 'improve'.
- Hahahaha... this made me laugh more than it should. Any topic you wish to discuss openly?
@RationalMadman
ISIS didn't attack in bangladesh, the government's enforcers who brutalise those that stand in the way of Islam did.
- On one hand, this is contrary to the facts in the ground, for it was the government who made an end to the issue & arrested heaps of people back in 2016. On the other, this is an even lesser incentive to avoid debates on Islam. If as you profess the Bangladeshi government itself is responsible, then unless you're in Bangladesh the danger is null. Do you honestly believe that you'd be in danger if you instigate a formal debate on Islam?
In many places internationally, they plot and wait for anyone bold enough to oppose them, whether it's an author of 'satanic verses' in Norway or some cartoonists in France and/or Denmark as well as in Britian or really any place at all on the planet that they have the ability to instill fear and attack you.
- Who is 'they' specifically? Sounds like you're talking about the Jewish lobby or something.
Islam has always ruled by this method, from the start through to now,
- Which method specifically? – Historically, Islamic empires & states offered total freedom of religion to their subjects, regardless of faith. Legal & fiscal pluralism was the norm. In contrast, Europe had virtually none. Hence, the Northern Crusades, the Thirty Years War, & the Hundred Years War, & all the other civil wars... So, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about.
Muhammad was a very sadistic leader no matter which part of the Hadith that's observed
- Which hadith is that? I personally have Isnad (chains of authority up to the Prophet (pbuh)) of close to 8000 hadiths. You need to be specific, we can't discuss a nothing. – As to being a sadistic leader, of course that's fantasy. The beloved Prophet (pbuh) brought Mercy & Justice to Mankind.
- He enjoined compassion for all creatures: (“Be merciful on the earth, and you will be shown mercy from Who is above the heavens.”), compassion For Mankind (“He will enter Heaven only he who possesses Mercy. It is not the mercy that one has for his friend, but the Mercy for all mankind.”), & forgiveness even for oppressors: "Forgive those who transgress against you, keep ties of kinship with those who severe them, be good to those who wrong you and speak the truth even against yourself"
- He (pbuh) is the first recorded human to teach Equality of Birth (“Every child is born in the state of Fitrah”), Equality in Humanity (“Humans are equal, like a set of a tooth-comb” “there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab, nor of a non-Arab over an Arab, nor of a white over a black, nor a black over a white, except by piety”) Human Dignity ("Verily we have dignified all Mankind.")
- He is the primary advocate of Women Equal Rights, in declaring Equity of Genders, (“Indeed, Women are but the equivalent of Men. Those honorable among men will honor them, and those ignoble among men will dishonor them”), in granting equal property rights regardless of origin, in guaranteeing their inheritance rights. He (pbuh) established mutual consent in marriage, permitted women to initiate divorce, & mandated equal education for both genders.
- The Prophet (pbuh) is also the father of Animal Rights, he enjoined treating animal with kindness (“There is a reward for serving any animate (living thing), feeding them if they are neighbors even if just ants, saving them from death even if not your own, releasing the quarry if otherwise her children will die. He (pbuh) prohibited taking them as targets ("Do not take any living creature as a target."), the killing of predatory animals or insects in their shelters, or killing animals for no just cause ("There is no person who kills a small bird or anything larger for no just cause, but Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, will ask him about it –it will beseech Allah on the Day of Judgment saying: "O Lord, so and so killed me for no just cause".– "[just cause] is that you slaughter it and eat it, and do not cut off its head and throw it aside."), or for experimentations ("A doctor consulted the Prophet about extracting medicine from a frog but he prohibited killing it"), or cursing them, or over-feeding them by force, or inciting fights among them, or cutting or maiming any part of the animal for no just cause (except ear holes), or overworking them, or separating them from their mothers, or even killing them in war...etc.
- He (pbuh) is the first proponent of Just War, he prohibited the killing of women, children, elderly, the sick, monks, peasants, slaves, laborers, & all civilians ("do not kill the women, and the children, and the elderly. Must not be killed are also the chronically ill, the blind, the monk, and the slave must not be killed" "you must not kill a woman or a laborer"), he prohibited killing non-combatants ("whoever enters the temple is safe, and whoever enters his house is safe"), he prohibited unnecessary destruction ("do not destroy a temple, do not ruin a house" 'do not cut a palm-tree or burn it, do not cut a fruitful tree) & the killing of animals in war ("do not slaughter sheep or cattle except for food"), he also prohibited unlawful behavior in battle ("you must not mutilate a body", "do not desert, do not rob, do not be treacherous")...etc. Even for POW (prisoners of war), he (pbuh) commanded that they be well treated, well fed & clothed. That they be exchanged, freed, or ransomed. If not, that they must not be left astray & must be integrated into Muslim society bondage guardianship, & that they be offered chances to gain back their freedom.
- Remarkably, this may shock many, but no western country actually prescribes any rights whatsoever to enemy foreign nationals, innocent civilians or enemy combatants, or even prisoners of war -actually to any foreign national, period! None! I can then understand if you call Western states sadistic for this, which they are. But, my question is, which part of any of the above points about our beloved Prophet (pbuh) is "sadistic"...? – I hope you don't avoid this by "I'm afraid" or something...
it's just he would pretend not to be because he'd preach something about being merciful
- Try to be a little sincere man, I'm being open-minded as well. This is just too petty. The beloved Prophet (pbuh) is preaching mercy & compassion & forgiveness, & you say he is just pretending. You're digging your heels in too deep don't you think?!
while Khalid and Muhammad's other enforcers did the dirty work for him.
- Do what? Who? Listen, I don't know what you're imagining, the beloved Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) may have been the head of state, but he was also a legislator & a judge. If he (pbuh) commanded an act or preached a deed, that means it's law - & that applies for everyone equally. There is no "dirty" work. When his tribe pleaded to him in regards to a thief to drop the punishment, he (pbuh) stood & addressed the people & said: "the people before you were ruined because when the noble amongst them commits theft, they leave him, but when the weak amongst them commits theft, they punish him. By Allah, were Fatimah, the daughter of Muhammad, to commit the theft, I would have cut off her hand." – I don't know why you keep mentioning Khalid, but if he committed an illegal act he would simply be punished accordingly, which is indeed what happened.
I will not be saying any more on this. I will respect that they rule by fear and admit I fear.
- That's a circular stance, & an appeal to emotion. Express your thoughts openly, say what you mean & mean what you say.
Nothing at all is unrealistic about this fear. I know who I am messing with and don't want to say anything more as they really can harm me and potentially those close to me if I anger them too much.
- Who the F* is 'they'???
Also, the difference between me and others here (except Lunar709 who actually will call Islam out) is that I can admit my fear, the rest are just as scared, it's why they're not posting here and just upvote your posts back at me because they haven't got shit to say out loud about Islam.
- If you were sincere in your engagement here you would not have resorted to these maneuvers. It is one thing to say, ISIS is beheading soldiers in 2016 & that's scary blahblah. It is another to play this hide & seek when we are on an internet Forum. Come on man! You're pulling my leg too thin.
Not really, no. If the West is wrong in some way, that has to be addressed.
- What do you say about the close to 100 invasions, bombing, coups, assassinations, interference, the West perpetrated on the Muslim world since WWII? What of the resulting dozens of millions of deaths & more of displacements? What of the 150 years of Colonialism with mass genocides & global pillaging? A third of the Algerian population was massacred once, then a fifth a century later. A quarter of the Egyptian population as well. Millions of Indians...etc..etc...
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@Bones
Have you heard of Mohammed Hijab. If so, what is your opinion of him?
- I've seen some of his videos, yes. Muhammed Hijab is not a traditional Muslim, he does not follow the Madhhabs (traditional schools of thought). Although he is not Salafi, he shares a lot of their views. His understanding of the faith & familiarity with the tradition is limited, albeit better than most social personalities out there. He makes some good points against Liberalism though.
- What is a traditional Muslim? It is a Muslim who adheres to the Sunni schools of thought through an Isnad (chain of authority) going back to founders of these schools, & thereby the Prophet (pbuh) himself, in the three dimensions of Islam:
Morality, namely the Four Madhhabs: Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, & Hanbali.
Rationality, namely: Ash'ari, Maturidi, & Athari.
Spirituality, namely: Qaderi, Shatheli, Rifai'i, Naqshabandi, Tijani...
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@Stephen
Is the Bible written in English worth the paper it is written on? I personally wouldn’t want to see this ancient work destroyed.I think it is well known of me by now that on the surface I find the Bible (New Testament in particular) to be a book of contradictory, ambiguous, anomalous, vague, enigmatic and problematic half stories surrounding a man that believed or was led to believe he was a rightful king and heir to the throne of Jerusalem and the power struggle that he had to endure in the times of ancient Palestine under Roman occupation and between the many other factions and sects that existed at the time. And not to be taken literally at all times. i.e. a man didn’t rises from a physical death to be alive again after being physically dead for three days.Others think to the contrary. For instance, there are those that I have met that believe the Bible to be clear and concise in its presentation and self evidently true and without any ambiguity whatsoever in the way it has come down to us. Until of course they are posed a few simple questions which usually arise not just frequently from the Bible but just as frequent from their own commentary, and when pressed on such it appears that these very same people will resort to the default that one must understand Greek or Hebrew to even begin to understand a Bible that is written in English! But by saying so they do not seem to understand that they have, in just a few words, rendered the Bible written in English redundant, pointless and unreliable as any kind of “witness” source to the life and times of the Christ.So is there at all any point to reading, never mind studying the Bible written in English? A Bible that those who have said that is clear and concise but suddenly insist that the Bible is fathomable and understandable only when one is tutored, trained and learned in the ancient Greek or Hebrew languages?
- This is the most lucid post of yours I've read so far. I think the translated Bible should still be available for the average Christian to be able to relate to their faith & practice it. Interpretation of the Bible & its meanings, however, should be left to those qualified to do so. A deep understanding of the culture, history, languages, rhetoric, variants...etc of the text is required. – Is this referring to a particular passage or are you speaking in general?
I'm unfamiliar with Islam, so I'm unsure of what I offer, 'but,Yes and this is forgiveness offered to only those that agree convert.
- Dude, you literally made that up yourself.
This is what is known as the abrogation. i.e Muhammed says he was deceived and that these earlier verses were given to him in revelation by the Satan . The book then turns intolerant of, and violent towards, the unbeliever - the kuffar
- Honestly though, where do you get all this stuff? I must know.
Islam the 7th century ideology will never be compatible with western civilisation for the simple reason Muslims believe the Quran to be " the last unalterable revelation from god". i.e it cannot reform.
- It's arguable indeed. 21st century Western Civilization has ways to go to catch up still.
The Rushdi novel affair ( for which there is still a fatwa - bounty - on his head, $6 million the last time I looked) should have been a wake up call for the West, although there were much earlier warnings about the Islamic threat many years before.
- Alright, what exactly is your point here?
Sir William Muir (1819-1905) said; “the sword of Muhammad and the Quran are the most fatal enemies of civilisation, liberty and truth which the world has ever known... an unmitigated cultural disaster parading as God's will".
- Muir is a Colonial priest, the worst kind of Christian to ever exist. A Christian with a fervor hate towards Islam & the beloved Prophet (pbuh), & non-Christians to facilitate the colonial project.
Winston Churchill 1874 - 1965: "Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog".William Gladstone 1809_ 1898 Quran, an accursed book, so long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world.Winston Churchill 1874 – 1965 The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually the better armed. The Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. Propagated by the sword, and a form of madness.Winston Churchill 1899: “Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.”
- You shouldn't be quoting Colonial war criminals responsible for millions of deaths as if some authority on mercy & tolerance. It strictly undermines the point you're trying to make. I don't understand why many English people love Churchill so much, literally all people despise him, even in his own country. The Scotts despise his guts, the Welsh too, the Irish piss on him. I heard some Americans being fond of this monster as well. He was decidedly more racist than Hitler, with a very close death toll to go with that.
- I hope for once you'll be open to honest discussion without all the antics.