the fantasy based religions

Author: Lunar108
Religion
fantasy

Posts

Total: 83
#31
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@FLRW
Selfless?

Not to the merchants he chased away from the temple.

Not if it is the Jesus who is said to have died for us.

Scapegoating is immoral, and for Jesus to ask us to sin by abdicating our responsibilities for our sins is another sin.

Regards
DL
#32
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,081
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
It's what's known as an interesting discussion Poly.

Instead of sniping, what not try and bring something useful to the discussion.

How does the Gnostic Christian hypothesis sit with your version of Polytheism?
#33
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,621
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
Scapegoating is immoral, and for Jesus to ask us to sin by abdicating our responsibilities for our sins is another sin.

In two earlier threads of mine I raised this nonsense.

I Didn’t Ask Anyone To Die For Me.

I didn't ask anyone to die for my crimes or sins or misdemeanours.

By all accounts, and after all the claims made by Christians of humans having “free will” someone did  take it upon themselves and committed suicide on my behalf and I didn’t have a say in the matter.

And the idea  that I would ask or want  anyone to suffer for my crimes or sins is abhorrent and it appals me.  Neither my brother nor Jesus is my keeper. And I will suffer and       `bare my own cross, '   as it is I  that  am responsible for my own actions.  #1

Reward: Does It Fly In The Face of Jesus' Own Teachings?

And as I mentioned recently, to be  offering compensation (rewards of heaven) for these things, rather than teaching that true morality only takes place when you want to do what you are doing, is educationally and developmentally debilitating.

The sermon on the mount on the other hand does not teach that we should do good things simply because it is the right thing to do.#1



#34
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,437
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@Reece101
Isn't the theory of evolution just magic?
It might seem like magic for a Young Earth Creationist. What’s magical about it? 
Great Question.  Nowhere in any type of observation do we see evolution jump from one kind to another. Yes, we see evolution leap in abounds between ordinary species.  But over kinds? It just does not happen.  To jump from lion to giraffe would be helpful.  To see it jump from mosquito to  Chicken would be helpful. Gee to see it even happen between ape or chimpanzee and human - the so called closest relationship to humanity would be nice. But it does n't.  

Magic. Absolutely it is magic.  jumping between species - to evolve to what we are today.  Yes that is magic. 



Or the big bang for that matter? First there was nothing - and then nothing exploded for no particular reason.  
The Big Bang theory is about the history of the universe in its early stages. Not what caused cosmic inflation.
Scientists will admit they’re not certain. It’s okay to admit when you don’t know.
I am not sure what university you went to- - but the Big Bang theory is more than just history.  It is the very start of our universe.   Nothing was there - and then nothing exploded. For no apparent reason. that is magic.  How else could we possibly describe it? 
#35
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,975
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret
Great Question.  Nowhere in any type of observation do we see evolution jump from one kind to another. Yes, we see evolution leap in abounds between ordinary species.  But over kinds? It just does not happen.  To jump from lion to giraffe would be helpful.  To see it jump from mosquito to  Chicken would be helpful. Gee to see it even happen between ape or chimpanzee and human - the so called closest relationship to humanity would be nice. But it does n't.  

Magic. Absolutely it is magic.  jumping between species - to evolve to what we are today.  Yes that is magic. 
Think of evolution as a big family tree. Lions and giraffes have a common ancestor going back millions of years. You can see this in the genetic and fossil record. In the future they may evolve similar traits to one another, but a lion won’t be a giraffe and a giraffe won’t be a lion. This same rule applies to every other animal switch you want to see happen. They’ll be new animals never before seen on the planet.

I am not sure what university you went to- - but the Big Bang theory is more than just history.  It is the very start of our universe.   Nothing was there - and then nothing exploded. For no apparent reason. that is magic.  How else could we possibly describe it?
I didn’t go to university. What do you take me for, a nerd? The Big Bang Theory is all about the early history of the universe which includes the very start. But not what caused it.

Thousands of years ago you would be thinking the same thing for all sorts of natural phenomena. Volcano erupts, must be the volcano god, earthquake quakes, must be the earthquake god, Lightning strikes, must be the lightning god, etc, etc, etc. 
#36
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Stephen
Most Christians have to accept and swear the apostles creed, and that basically forces them to accept Jesus, immorally, as scapegoat/messiah.

Given the what, 3,000 sects, I am sure that there are exceptions, Gnostic Christianity being one of those.

Regards
DL
 
#37
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Tradesecret
No physicist worth his label will say that the Big Bang came from nothing.

There is always a small but really compact mass to explode.

Est. are from a sugar cube size to a basket ball.

Show any bonified physicist who says there was nothing before the Big Bang.

Regards
DL
#38
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
There's nothing interesting about someone creating an account, not using it for years and then all of a sudden deciding to post as a "Gnostic Christian". Gnostic Christians aren't all atheists either so they're totally misrepresenting the religion that they supposedly engage in. This is nothing more than someone using the word Christian in their name to try to get away with bashing Christians so that it doesn't look like they're bashing Christians because they are one. The question is which banned atheist is using the account.
#39
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,621
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Polytheist-Witch


You appear to have missed this , Witch.
#40
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,437
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
No physicist worth his label will say that the Big Bang came from nothing.

There is always a small but really compact mass to explode.

Est. are from a sugar cube size to a basket ball.

Show any bonified physicist who says there was nothing before the Big Bang.
Of course they are not going to say that.  The truth would destroy their reputations.  And they know it. Rather it is easier to live in denial and float about pretending you are important.  And the pay is good as well.


#41
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
" Gnostic Christians aren't all atheists either"

No Gnostic Christian is an atheist. 

If one is, he will not call himself a Gnostic Christian.

BTW, stupid, Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

Stop being small minded.

Regards
DL
#42
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Tradesecret
I think your post applies more to lying preachers.

Think indulgences and how St. Peters was build on the backs of Temple Prostitutes.

Regards
DL
#43
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,621
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Polytheist-Witch

Look at atheists arguing over who is more like God/Jesus. The envy is hysterical.

Do they both have an argument?


I believe the gods are beings who have evolved on their own worlds. #16

That's interesting ,Witch, where about are these worlds?

You appear to have missed this , Witch.

#44
Tradesecret
Tradesecret's avatar
Debates: 2
Posts: 3,437
3
2
6
Tradesecret's avatar
Tradesecret
3
2
6
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
I think your post applies more to lying preachers.

Think indulgences and how St. Peters was build on the backs of Temple Prostitutes.
Nuh. Atheist scientists practice the divination of much magic.   They are the evil priests of today.  

They lie and cheat and steal and mock and rage.    And yet they still cannot overcome death.   Only one has overcome death. 

O Brother, I can't help it.  The evolutionists are full of magic.  Jumping over themselves in a hurry to avoid the truth.  

OF course truth is not the real issue for them.    It never has been.  
#45
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,621
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Tradesecret


Hold it together Reverend "Tradey". You are coming over all ethangesque.😂
#46
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
Someone who uses more than one identity on a website doesn't get to call anybody anything because they're very dishonest. Especially when they're going to lie about a religion they supposedly practice and are involved in just to look good. 
#47
Bones
Bones's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 968
3
7
9
Bones's avatar
Bones
3
7
9
the fantasy based religions
So all of them. 
#48
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,081
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
Better Poly.

If you take a look at my posts in this thread, you should be able to work out that  I'm pretty much in agreement with you.

Nonetheless I still find the discussion interesting.


#49
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,617
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Tradesecret
They lie and cheat and steal and mock and rage.
That sounds like Pastor Jim Bakker
Topic's author
#50
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
I don't understand why everybody is so fixated on the big bang theory , it's not the only theory describing the beginning of the world , there are multiple theories describing the beginning of the world out there , the big bang theory is just the most famous one , there's the black hole cosmology , I recall a physicist from the university I was studying at published a different one that doesn't need a god ,
-*-*-*-
there are many theories discussing this topic and each one has both strong points -where it can describe/explain a certain phenomenon in the universe well- and weak points - where it falls short or can't describe or explain such phenomenon- 

#51
Castin
Castin's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,239
3
2
7
Castin's avatar
Castin
3
2
7
why is it that people are willing to believe magical stories that they would have dismissed as nonsense once they are mentioned under religion ,many of the stories mentioned under religion are just crazy and if you remove the religious background of the story it would be placed under fiction and if someone came and told the story - without the religion- , you would probably tell them that they are lying , because such thing can't happen at the world or at the very least not on our world .
This question can be broadened: Why do humans often compartmentalize their critical thinking?

I would argue that most people have done this at some point and to some degree. I have been guilty, for instance, of being more critical of a stranger for doing something wrong than of a friend who did the same thing. Why?

So I'll posit three factors that I think may go into this:

  • We tend to suspend our critical thinking when it comes to things we're invested in, or that serve our physical, emotional, and psychological needs.
  • We tend to dismiss what is outside our experience. A stranger running up and telling you a fantastical story is something that falls outside your experience -- you don't know the stranger or the story. But if you connect the story to something familiar and personal, like your religion, suddenly it gains much more cognitive traction for you.
  • We tend to suspend our critical thinking when something comes from an authority. Our propensity for this has been well documented and is not unique to religious people.
The supernatural stories you're talking about meet all three of these qualifiers for the people who believe in them: 1) these stories are part of a religion they are emotionally invested in, 2) this religion is familiar and personal, 3) the stories come from a source they regard as authoritative.

My own personal example may not meet all three, but it meets several: My friend is familiar and known to me, so I am more forgiving. I am invested in my friend, and my friend serves my emotional and psychological needs.
#52
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,621
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Castin
I have been guilty, for instance, of being more critical of a stranger for doing something wrong than of a friend who did the same thing. Why?

I believe you answered your own question perfectly Castin. >>

"My friend is familiar and known to me, so I am more forgiving. [Than I would be and am to  strangers]. I am invested in my friend, and my friend serves my emotional and psychological needs".
Nice post.
#53
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Tradesecret
No money in that my friend.

Regards
DL


#54
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,081
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Lunar108
GOD is a theory.

But like all creation theories GOD falls at the first hurdle.

Something from nothing.

BOOM!

But what went boom.

Eternal existence is an easy answer.

But a magic bloke?
Topic's author
#55
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@zedvictor4
exactly , the claim that god is eternal and existed since the beginning is as weak as the claim that we existed since the beginning
if god doesn't need a creator and god came from nothing , why didn't/can't we come from nothing ?
why didn't existence began 4.5-4.7 billion years ago
======================================
the universe come to existence without a creator
and god came to existence without creator is the same claim .
Pantheism and Theism  are extremely similar with the simple difference of one claims that reality and the universe is god while the other claims that god exist outside reality .
both claims of the universe keeping it's own laws since they came to existence along with it's laws , since the universe is god , and god needs no creator
while the other claims that god created the universe and god needs no creator
you can see that both are very similar
Topic's author
#56
Lunar108
Lunar108's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 188
0
2
3
Lunar108's avatar
Lunar108
0
2
3
-->
@zedvictor4
if god can exist without a creator why can't the universe exist without a creator ?
if god came from nothing why can't our universe come to existence from nothing .
#57
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@Lunar108
Very few religions have stories where the gods don't have some kind of origin. Only monotheism has God creating the actual universe. If you look at most stories where man is created the universe already exists. If you look at stories where the universe is created or they try to explain the universe it usually involves an animal or the elements.
#58
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,621
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
We are indeed like Gods

Well if the bible is in anyway to be believed, it agrees with you.  And many times too.
#59
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Stephen
Some day the sheeple will know how to move a Jesus mind to a Christ mind like Gnostic Christians can.

There are no more inquisitors to silence us.

Regards
DL
#60
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,621
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
Some day the sheeple will know how to move a Jesus mind to a Christ mind like Gnostic Christians can.

Nice.  I have read the available Gnostic Gospels and they do paint a different picture of the life and times of the Christ altogether .



There are no more inquisitors to silence us.

Unless Islam gets a foot - hold, which it already has in large swaths of Europe. We  will all have a problem on our hands then. Islam has infiltrated many a high office in my own country and many European countries.   And only a complete and utter bonehead will deny this to be the case.