the fantasy based religions

Author: Lunar108
Religion
fantasy

Posts

Total: 83
#61
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Stephen
Modernization kills all religions, and Laïcité will kill Islam.

There is now a female Imam run Mosque in France and Laïcité in some form will be the future.

Tipping points are long past and their decline is accelerating as people get smarter and more moral.

Genocidal Gods, homophobic and misogynous gods,  --- Yuk.

Regards
DL
#62
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Stephen
On Jesus.

We have a moral Jesus who wants to free us from religions and outward gods.

The Christian Jesus, like his Roman creator, just wanted to slave us to it.

Regards
DL 
#63
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,614
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
Modernization kills all religions, and Laïcité will kill Islam.

Lovely. But I am not convinced. Bring back Jacques de Molay  and his Knight Templars, I say.


There is now a female Imam run Mosque in France and Laïcité in some form will be the future.

And is she allowed to lead prayers for males?



#64
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Lunar108
Agree.
#65
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Stephen
Yes, including the gays that they are not throwing off of buildings.

We collectively brought Christianity to heel.

Islam will either heel to secular ways and become civilized, or die.

Regards
DL
#66
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
LOL All you guys do here is complain about how Christians are in your life and ruining the world, but now you've brought them to heal. Get over yourself, you are a narcissistic, power hungry little man who thinks because he calls himself a gnostic he is somehow better than the atheist and the Christians.
#67
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,614
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
All you guys do here is complain about how Christians are in your life and ruining the world.

Nope. I usually am "complaining" about the truthfulness and the unreliability of the scriptures. But most recently about the comments you personally have made but cannot  ever support them when challenged. .... funnily enough, Christians are exactly the same when when challenged of their comments and scriptures.  Marvellous how much you pagans and Christians have in common, isn't it Witch.

Here have another go>.

You say above:

No god created the universe. Just their world or worlds.#12

Where are these worlds of the gods and how old are your own  gods?

#68
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Polytheist-Witch
If you define better by moral sense, I can easily wipe the floor with Christianity.

This is apparent in the fact that when challenged on moral issues, --- they all run away, --- or hide honest debate behind their supernatural mental shield/safe space. Where all the really evil Moral Cowards hide.

I am sure you have seen it many times.

As to morals, statistics show atheist as above the mainstream religious, as are secularists.

At one time I had put Gnostic Christianity above atheism due to the fact that they had yet to open atheist churches.

This Gnostic Christian cannot speak for all free thinkers and esoteric ecumenists, but that change made atheism as better and equaled it to Gnostic Christianity.

I do not know your definition of better, but the left is a lot more better in moral terms than the right.

The right had more value at one time and has helped religion, but it has now been made un-required and harmful with it's homophobia and misogyny.

The better people, morally speaking, will agree.  

Regards
DL



#69
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,614
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop

GnosticChristianBishop wrote:There is now a female Imam run Mosque in France and Laïcité in some form will be the future.

Stephen wrote: And is she allowed to lead prayers for males?

GnosticChristianBishop wrote: Yes, including the gays that they are not throwing off of buildings.

I see. I find this very interesting. You do have some evidence for this claim I expect? Of a female Imam leading prayers to male Muslims and homosexuals in the Mosque?
#70
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@Stephen
@zedvictor4
@Lunar108
GOD is a theory.

But like all creation theories GOD falls at the first hurdle.

Something from nothing.
That is not the Christian belief. Someone necessary ALWAYS exists, no beginning, no end, unlike the universe and the many theories of origin.  

BOOM!

But what went boom.
That is a question for those who believe the universe is all there is. And what is the agency to make it go boom? And why would you look for reason in an unreasoning universe? You seem to put the cart before the horse way too often, IMO. But you find all kinds of reasons. Why should you if there is ultimately no reasoning agency behind anything???

As usual, time is your magic ingredient!!! Things just happen - no reason (as you give multiple reasons). MAGIC!!!

As usual, silence from the atheist "knowers" on such ultimate questions. Not even a cricket. Or would you like to speculate and surprise me? Without God you can't make ultimate sense of the universe or why we are here. God is necessary to make sense of it because I'm betting you can't. 

Eternal existence is an easy answer.

But a magic bloke?
Or magical "time." Once upon a time, a long, long time ago. With time they magically think anything is possible. Meanwhile, from the atheist perspective, no one was around to observe the universe beginning and no one is able to repeat the process. Thus, they build all kinds of speculative models. And the greatest scientists are still nothing more than fallible, ignorant, impotent, powerless, speculators of what is and why it is. We only see and understand in part, not every link and every infinitesimal thing about anything. And what of the agency for the Big Bang or whatever theory they propose???

Are you proposing something always existed? If so, what was the agency that made it do what it did? Again, you a reasoning human being may come up with some kind of reason, yet how do you know it is true? Truth is the mainstay of science, not scientism, and that is what you are dealing with in beginnings. 

The same goes for macro-evolution and the missing links. The prevailing opinion is we all originate from a common ancestor, rather than being created each to its own kind, yet we never see the links along the way. We just speculate about them and infer them because of similarity. You don't see them happening. Again, time is the magic ingredient, the fairy dust in the atheists bag of goodies.

Because a human being and an ape share 98% (or whatever) genetic make up/DNA structure we assume therefore that the one must have evolved from the other while dismissing that God just created us similar in so many ways to share a common/similar environment. And the prevailing scientific opinion gets drummed into our heads through the educational system. Thomas Kuhn wrote about our theories in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, and their paradigm shifts. When the anomalies build up scientists jettison one theory for another until yet again the anomalies build up. What we thought we knew one hundred years ago has changed yet again.    

Speaking of fanciful religions, Atheism is a fanciful magic religion were the atheist plays god declaring what is and what has been. At least the Christian has an ultimate source for his reason and being that can make sense of it, a necessary omniscient Being apart from him. You are not necessary for me to be or for me to form opinions and a knowledge base. Show me a human being who is necessary. I can make sense of my existence for I have what is necessary to do so. You do not. From ultimate eternal Being comes contingent beings! From an ultimate, omniscient, logical reasoning Mind comes other contingent reasoning minds! Reason comes from the reasoning God and He has revealed, thus (providing His existence and revelation) we have what is necessary for certainty. Logic is only possible with beings. Without logic we could not make sense of anything. Without Him, the ultimate Being, make sense of anything ultimately. You have to keep falling back on Him to make sense of things. "It just happens" does not make sense of anything. It is a tautology. 

#71
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
-->
@Stephen
I have an extensive library, but experience tells me that you are better off getting the latest.

Mine is at least 4 years old now and some have rejected my sources, without cause, in the past.

Laïcité or female imam in France, ask search words, are all you likely need.

If you somehow cannot find it, then I am here if you will accept my sources.  --- Warning. I am slow.

Regards
DL
#72
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,614
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop
female imam in France

Well is all I have managed to find on this female Imam  Kahina Bahloul  is that she "announced"  in 2018, the creation of “Fatma Mosque”, a place of worship where men and women pray together, where prayers are led by both male and female imams, where sermons are delivered in French, and where non-Muslims are welcome.. That appears to be just about it. . not even a  location for her mosque.

 The reason for this appears to be that since "covid 19 most activities of this “inclusive mosque” have been transferred online". And she says, “A mosque is not a place, but a community,” she said, however, emphasising that they “continue to gather”. 

I can only wish her the best of luck in here endeavours to "modernise Islam" an ideology that claims" it is the last and unalterable word of god". Do you have the latest on Kahina Bahloul ?

if you will accept my sources

I would be interested in reading your sources.
#73
GnosticChristianBishop
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 361
1
2
3
GnosticChristianBishop's avatar
GnosticChristianBishop
1
2
3
#74
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,614
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@GnosticChristianBishop

Yes I have read that and more. It appears in that all the links all repeat the same thing.  She isn't quite off the ground in her mission and  has moved her "mosque" online.. I was hoping you had more from "your own sources" and or research or " extensive library"? You have nothing up to date then?
#75
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@PGA2.0
And theism doesn't get drummed into heads?


And atheism can be as rhetorical as you want it to be.

But atheism generally means, not adhering to popular religious ideology.


When it comes to the point of conclusion we are all as ignorant as one another.

And for sure, GOD is just a label for our ignorance.


And fantasy always has been an insubstantial but entertaining substitute.

As ever.....GOD principle sound.....But not a floaty about bloke.
#76
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,614
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
When it comes to the point of conclusion we are all as ignorant as one another.

'It's not rocket science' and 'it's not brain surgery' are phrases regularly used to say that you do not think that something is very difficult to do or to understand.
But a new study suggests that rocket science and brain surgery may not be so difficult after all.
Researchers from UCL looked at the intelligence of rocket scientists and brain surgeons, and compared these professions to the general public.....

Their findings indicate that contrary to popular belief, aerospace engineers and neurosurgeons have similar levels of intelligence to the general population.
#77
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Stephen
Well.... Rocket engineering and brain surgery are developed techniques that can be taught and learned. So I would agree that anyone with a reasonable level of intelligence, and more importantly the ambition, could become a rocket engineer or brain surgeon.

The reason why I don't say rocket scientist, is because those that developed sophisticated techniques of engineering and surgery were perhaps a tad bit more intelligent than most.
#78
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,614
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@zedvictor4
And I think the link appears to be somewhat in agreement with you, Vic lad.
#79
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@zedvictor4
And theism doesn't get drummed into heads?


And atheism can be as rhetorical as you want it to be.

But atheism generally means, not adhering to popular religious ideology.
Not in the majority of education systems in the USA, which was my point. Evolutionary teaching, on the other hand, is indoctrinated from an early age throughout the school systems and institutes of higher learning. 


When it comes to the point of conclusion we are all as ignorant as one another.
Again, not my point. It was making sense of life's ultimate questions. 

And for sure, GOD is just a label for our ignorance.
Says you. And why SHOULD I believe you, again?

And fantasy always has been an insubstantial but entertaining substitute.

As ever.....GOD principle sound.....But not a floaty about bloke.

Complete and utter avoidance of my post. It just proves to me that the atheistic system of thought has nothing to offer.
#80
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@PGA2.0
Not in the majority of education systems in the USA, which was my point. Evolutionary teaching

More precisely, is the assumption that evolution as a process is a purely materialistic function. That is, without the aid of a Creator. Evolution as a process is a product of reality, but the atheistic ideology that follows and represents it is a load of codswallop. It's not really a battle between Theism and evolution as a process, but Theism vs atheism or more precisely materialism. 
#81
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@EtrnlVw
Not in the majority of education systems in the USA, which was my point. Evolutionary teaching

More precisely, is the assumption that evolution as a process is a purely materialistic function. That is, without the aid of a Creator. Evolution as a process is a product of reality, but the atheistic ideology that follows and represents it is a load of codswallop. It's not really a battle between Theism and evolution as a process, but Theism vs atheism or more precisely materialism. 
Yes, without theistic evolution all that is left is a materialistic, mechanical process, IMO. And since the atheist is a denier of deity that is all such a person is left with, material naturalism. Everything eventual has to be broken down into physicalism, aka, materialism. There are a lot of logical problems with that approach.
#82
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@PGA2.0
Throughout my entire formative educational experiences.

I was never once formally "indoctrinated" with evolutionary data.

And I doubt that the USA was any different.


On the other hand GOD tales were a regular bore.

And I also doubt that the USA was any different.


I think that you were telling paranoid porkies.



And fortunately, my Dad always put me straight.
#83
PGA2.0
PGA2.0's avatar
Debates: 7
Posts: 3,179
3
5
8
PGA2.0's avatar
PGA2.0
3
5
8
-->
@zedvictor4
Throughout my entire formative educational experiences.

I was never once formally "indoctrinated" with evolutionary data.

And I doubt that the USA was any different.


On the other hand GOD tales were a regular bore.

And I also doubt that the USA was any different.


I think that you were telling paranoid porkies.
Again, you failed to address my concerns. Obviously, I'm not going to get any explanations to my OP.