MORE than HALF of POLICE KILLINGS are MISLABELED, NEW STUDY SAYS

Author: oromagi

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@secularmerlin
Would you care to figure that by economic class? If you do I don't think you will see much difference between people of color and other ethnic groups. You may however see a difference in conviction rates as people of color are disproportionally convicted.
I'd reckon not

At the very least it makes you far more likely to be convicted for crimes. No expensive lawyers or connections.

I wouldn't say far more likely, but certainly more likely. That and white collar crimes are a lot more subjective.


I'd bet that the number of crimes committed is way higher per conviction in black communities than others because of "no snitching" and jury nullification.
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@Greyparrot
No, counting dead bodies. Police aren't even involved in this. It's a coroner statistic.
IF you are counting bodies THEN you are not counting murderers. Your argument just fell apart.
secularmerlin
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What if the reason has nothing to do with race?
It almost certainly doesn't since there isnot enough genetic differences to actually constitute a seperate race.
It's obviously a cultural thing, and not a race thing.
Bingo. It is the way our culture treats people of color.
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@bmdrocks21
I'd bet that the number of crimes committed is way higher per conviction in black communities than others because of "no snitching" and jury nullification.
The numbers do not back this up. Quite the opposite in fact as predominantly black communities are disproportionally targeted by police.
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@secularmerlin
The numbers do not back this up. Quite the opposite in fact as predominantly black communities are disproportionally targeted by police.

Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps high-crime neighborhoods are  disproportionately targeted by police?
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@bmdrocks21
Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps high-crime neighborhoods are  disproportionately targeted by police?
You mean high poverty areas? Yes it has. In fact I accept that as an axiom. That is precisely why it is indicative of systemic racism that so many such communities are black communities. 
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@secularmerlin
You mean high poverty areas? Yes it has. In fact I accept that as an axiom. That is precisely why it is indicative of systemic racism that so many such communities are black communities. 

Yes, because human agency inside said communities cannot ever explain it, right?
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@bmdrocks21
Yes, because human agency inside said communities cannot ever explain it, right?
The poor have little agency compared with the wealthy. The world is what the one percent have made it.

But let's humor you for a moment. The alternative is what? That people of color are just intrinsically more inclined to criminality than whites? I hate to belabor the obvious but that is a racist attitude to hold so I hope that isn't what you are saying. I hope you aren't just a blatant racist. 
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@secularmerlin
 That people of color are just intrinsically more inclined to criminality than whites? I hate to belabor the obvious but that is a racist attitude to hold so I hope that isn't what you are saying. I hope you aren't just a blatant racist. 
Some "people of color" (a weird way of lumping 'everyone but White people' together) commit less crime (ex. East Asians) while some commit more crime (ex. Black and Native American). It would be nuts to say that every non-White group is more inclined to commit crime.

Typical of a lib to just offhandedly call any naysayer a racist to try to discredit them while parroting the status quo talking points, though.

The poor have little agency compared with the wealthy
If the problem is poverty, then you'd expect maybe theft to be at a higher rate. But why do blacks rape more people per capita? What about having less money makes you more inclined to rape? That doesn't make any coherent sense.
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@bmdrocks21
If the problem is poverty, then you'd expect maybe theft to be at a higher rate. But why do blacks rape more people per capita? What about having less money makes you more inclined to rape? That doesn't make any coherent sense.
Sorry but you mean conviction rates right? Because incidents of rape in the wealthy and powerful are coming to light in record numbers where before they simply went uninvestigated.
Typical of a lib to just offhandedly call any naysayer a racist to try to discredit them while parroting the status quo talking points, though.
I did not call you a racist. I said if you think ethnicity makes you more or less inclined to criminality that would by definition be racist. Is that what you believe or not?


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@secularmerlin
Because incidents of rape in the wealthy and powerful are coming to light in record numbers where before they simply went uninvestigated.
So, in other words, anecdotal evidence.

I said if you think ethnicity makes you more or less inclined to criminality that would by definition be racist. Is that what you believe or not?

Do I think genetics on average differ by race? Yes, that's hardly controversial.
Do I believe that genetics influence life outcomes including criminality? Yes, slightly controversial.
Do I therefore believe that to some extent race is related to crime rates? Yes, and at this point, connecting these two seems to be VERY controversial.

If you want to call me a racist, then feel free to do so. I won't be hurt.



So, I'll ask you a question that I have not once received a coherent response to:

To what degree are White people at fault for the failings of Black people? Would their crime rates and incomes be identical without slavery and segregation?

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@bmdrocks21
To what degree are White people at fault for the failings of Black people?
There is a lot to unpack here. First of all there is no "faults of black people". All people have flaws. This is unconnected with any ethnicity. Secondly it is misleading to say the "fault of white people" when what you actually mean is wealthy land owners who happen to be predominantly white. And lastly yeah the wealthy have far more agency than the poor. The world is what the one percent have made it.

Would their crime rates and incomes be identical without slavery and segregation?
Well there are many other forms of racism besides these and many are more subtle and insidious but yeah all things being equal we would expect all things to be equal. If all things are not equal then all things must not be equal. 
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@secularmerlin
Well there are many other forms of racism besides these and many are more subtle and insidious but yeah all things being equal we would expect all things to be equal. If all things are not equal then all things must not be equal. 
I agree that not all things are equal. It just seems that I am open to more factors causing said equality than you, and hence the perceived weighting of each reason is different.
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@bmdrocks21
So, in other words, anecdotal evidence.
It is a fact that the rich are often shielded from the consequences of their wrongdoings by their wealth. Do you dispute this?
Do I think genetics on average differ by race? Yes, that's hardly controversial.
There is not enough difference in allele frequency to make the distinction between races. There us only one race. The human race. A white European descended person may easily bear more genetic similarities to any given person of color chosen at random than any given white person chosen at random. Your argument is scientifically fallacious. 
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@bmdrocks21
I agree that not all things are equal. It just seems that I am open to more factors causing said equality than you, and hence the perceived weighting of each reason is different.
If you believe that the reason is one "races" "superior genes" then, not to beat a dead horse but that would be racist by definition. I am not trying to put words in your mouth I'm just being very clear about what I think is racism so that we can avoid confusion. I cannot make you racist by my definition only you can and only by fitting that definition. 
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@bmdrocks21
Would their crime rates and incomes be identical without slavery and segregation?

Probably not. Most of the data per the Moynihan report shows broken homes and the crime that followed started around 1965 and then took off exponentially as the policies causing the problems were never reversed. The crime problem was a more recent thing than the slavery or reconstruction period policies.

It's probs nothing to do with slavery or very little.
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@Greyparrot
It's probs nothing to do with slavery or very little.
Slavery is part of the same ugly weed as the systemically oppressive policies introduced as a direct response from racists then in power to the civil rights movement. The base issue is viewing other humans as lesser or as dangerous or perhaps worst of all just not even human.
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@Greyparrot
So you support voluntary compliance with law authorities? If a rapist doesn't feel like getting arrested it should be a viable option?
How do these law authorities know who is and isnot a rapist just by looking at them? Because you never did answer me.

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@secularmerlin
@bmdrocks21
Slavery is part of the same ugly weed as the systemically oppressive policies introduced as a direct response from racists then in power to the civil rights movement. The base issue is viewing other humans as lesser or as dangerous or perhaps worst of all just not even human.

I'm simply pointing out Blacks were NOT killing their own at four times the rate from the period of 1865-1965, so the cause of the problem probably has little to do with what was going on within that period. 
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@Greyparrot
The same base of endemic racism lead to slavery as lead to the pushback against the civil rights movement. 
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The same base of endemic racism lead to slavery as lead to the pushback against the civil rights movement. 

I agree. The policies written in 1965 were meant to ensure that Blacks could not become an economic threat to the whites in America.

Post 1965 is the time period when the rise of crime hit as well as the loss of wealth and family structure.

Patrick Moynihan was a whistle blower who actually cared, but was silenced by the racists in his own party.
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@oromagi
Personally, I think every death during police action should be tagged for State and Federal databases.  As a citizen, I want to know how many fat guy police chase heart attacks agencies are reporting so I can see how that number compares to other police agencies, other states, other nations, other years , etc.
That claim disavows any responsibility for the fat guys being fat by their own volition and not because of any consequential police action. It is they, the fats, after all, who choose what to stuff in the pie hole, not the police. Further, who suggests that the fat guys run from the police? The police? You want to absolve everyone but the police. Is that proper? Running certainly is not. Of what are they afraid if their innocence can be demonstrated?
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@secularmerlin
It is a fact that the rich are often shielded from the consequences of their wrongdoings by their wealth. Do you dispute this?

I think that is a hard claim to make. I am tempted to say yes, but that is just because those cases are widely publicized. I have also read cases where murderers are given a slap on the wrist. There is jury nullification as well, such as in the case of OJ Simpson.

If you can provide facts showing that rich people are shielded from consequences for crimes (obviously, they are shielded from crimes resulting in fines) that require jail time, then I'd be happy to look at that and make an assessment based on the facts provided.

There is not enough difference in allele frequency to make the distinction between races. There us only one race. The human race. A white European descended person may easily bear more genetic similarities to any given person of color chosen at random than any given white person chosen at random. Your argument is scientifically fallacious. 

You can break it down to be more specific. It depends on how specific you want to be with "race" categories. They can trace your origins to where your ancestors lived geographically. Geographic locations are highly correlated with skin color.

If you believe that the reason is one "races" "superior genes" then, not to beat a dead horse but that would be racist by definition. I am not trying to put words in your mouth I'm just being very clear about what I think is racism so that we can avoid confusion. I cannot make you racist by my definition only you can and only by fitting that definition. 

I'm not calling any one set of genes better than another. Some genes make people better at certain things and worse at others. Based on the Olympics and US sports leagues, you can make assumptions about superiority at sports for different races. That doesn't seem to be a controversial claim. But whenever it has to do with... let's say genes related to delayed gratification or even average brain mass, then we start having issues. I think that people from different geographic locations have different genes on average and that those genes lead to a higher likelihood of certain outcomes. Also, I (non-controversially) think that people from different geographic locations have different races. (Ex. before colonialization of Africa or the North African slave trade, you would be hard-pressed to find a White person on the continent)
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@bmdrocks21
If you can provide facts showing that rich people are shielded from consequences for crimes (obviously, they are shielded from crimes resulting in fines) that require jail time, then I'd be happy to look at that and make an assessment based on the facts provided.
They can afford the best lawyers and have connections and resources unavailable to the poor. Surely you ate not so obtuse that you do not realize that this shields them from the consequences of their wrongdoings in a way that the rest of us could hardly imagine. 
You can break it down to be more specific. It depends on how specific you want to be with "race" categories. They can trace your origins to where your ancestors lived geographically. Geographic locations are highly correlated with skin color.
Any claim that this has any measurable difference on behavior or capabilities is bad science.
I'm not calling any one set of genes better than another. Some genes make people better at certain things and worse at others. Based on the Olympics and US sports leagues, you can make assumptions about superiority at sports for different races. That doesn't seem to be a controversial claim. But whenever it has to do with... let's say genes related to delayed gratification or even average brain mass, then we start having issues. I think that people from different geographic locations have different genes on average and that those genes lead to a higher likelihood of certain outcomes. 
Any claim that this has any measurable difference on behavior or capabilities is bad science.
Also, I (non-controversially) think that people from different geographic locations have different races. (Ex. before colonialization of Africa or the North African slave trade, you would be hard-pressed to find a White person on the continent)
There is only one race. The human race. 
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@secularmerlin
If you’re going to give me a lazy message, don’t bother sending one at all
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@bmdrocks21
I gave you the response your post merits.
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@secularmerlin
No, that’s likely the best response your ilk can muster
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@bmdrocks21
Scientific racism is and always has been pseudo science like frenology and the electric universe. 
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Yeah, I heard about that a couple of days/weeks ago. Horrifying stuff.