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@ebuc
where is your evidence of this 'humaneness'? Please provide it before spouting nonsense.
Happy indigenous peoples Day!
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@949havoc
Why don't you come back when you're certain? And what is your interest in harming any facet of society? Land ownership is a fact of life, particularly now. But, if your lalaland says sovereignty and land ownership is not a fact of life, and you can squat wherever you need to pee, that's your choice. Or do you, as usual, blame the universe?
The universe is indifferent. It is people whose claims of land ownership are enforced by the threat of state sanctioned police violence and that I don't have interest in harming anyone that is why I am not in favor of land ownership.
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@Vader
I never got why Columbus was so praised. He didn't even land in America
Exactly. He came across the Caribbean Islands and was certain that was some extension of India, so he then begged a pair of brothers to lend him their ships and to lead the way onwards, so they did and together they landed in what is now the US (which he was convinced was mainland India with the Caribbean being islands close to it) and proceeded to reign over everyone with such lack of mercy I cannot fathom it even.
They would so openly rape and abuse people that there may literally have never been as 'open and honest' of a psychopathic ruling in the entire history of our species. The complete lack of shame and openness of the abuse was unique to his tyranny, the rest has probably been done elsewhere previously but his style of rule was so openly barbaric and merciless, there has essentially never been anything like it in terms of that. Even Genghis Khan's men had some level of pseudo-decency.
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@RationalMadman
where is your evidence of this 'humaneness'? Please provide it before spouting nonsense.
That is best of my recall from show I watched with friends, at their house. I never stated evidence of anything.
I stated more humane than British. Please reread as your in error.
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@ebuc
yeah how were the spanish colonists more humane than the british colonists?
The British are "more white" than the Spanish ones?
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@RationalMadman
The legacy of colonialism has been pretty good for 1st worlders. Being one of them, I have little to complain about and much to celebrate. Columbus day it is. As to the indigenous in the United States, they have all the same rights as regular Americans and usually even more so due to their status within their tribes. Indian reservations are shitholes that people who are good enough leave for a better life elsewhere in the United States. Those left behind are generally those who weren't good enough to make it on their own. This is brain drain. The same thing happens with Puerto Rico and the rust belt.
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@dfss9788
As to the indigenous in the United States, they have all the same rights as regular Americans
You mean the few descendants of the tiny minority that survived the purge?
We're talking about what happened to the original ancestors and the abuse they underwent. That guy, Columbus, is the one you celebrate on that day.
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@dfss9788
Those left behind are generally those who weren't good enough to make it on their own. This is brain drain.
What exactly does this mean? You think some spoilt brat caucasian is somehow good enough to make it on their own under Columbus' regime if they were a native? This has nothing to do with the smart defeating the dumb and everything to do with dehumanising, sociopathic patriarchy where one side merely had the guns.
Imagine your mother or wife undergoing this:
Bergreen quotes Michele de Cuneo, who participated in Columbus's second expedition to the Americas (page 143):While I was in the boat, I captured a very beautiful woman, whom the Lord Admiral [Columbus] gave to me. When I had taken her to my cabin she was naked — as was their custom. I was filled with a desire to take my pleasure with her and attempted to satisfy my desire. She was unwilling, and so treated me with her nails that I wished I had never begun. I then took a piece of rope and whipped her soundly, and she let forth such incredible screams that you would not have believed your ears. Eventually we came to such terms, I assure you, that you would have thought she had been brought up in a school for whores.
Imagine hearing her screams, watching it happen. Tell me then, if you'd admire him and his men.
I wonder, when the invaders would refer to her as a whore instead of a victim and those that stood up for her would be abused themselves by his men with menacing smiles, would you begin to understand why some may loathe the man?
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@RationalMadman
Guns were part of it, but the depopulation of the indigenous was largely the consequence of old world diseases. 90%+ of the population decline in the Americas were causes by things like smallpox and measles. It's pretty easy to dominate a population when the overwhelming majority of it is wiped out. Columbus's voyages were a key event in history that led to the formation of United States. In that respect, celebrating Columbus day is celebrating America in a sense. Indigenous people's day represents a counter-celebration that intentionally excludes people. It's not unifying. It's divisive, and it's just one more symptom of all the divisive tribalism that always seems to be happening.
You know, I'm sick of all this crap from people having a chip on their shoulder about what some people did hundreds of years ago. Those people are all dead and nobody alive today did any of it. Grievances aren't legitimately heritable. A lot of progressives got the notion that members of historically marginalized groups possess moral superiority. It's a big lie. There is no original sin for being a white guy, and the whole thing is this twisted, delusional perspective which isn't fair at all. Modern progressivism isn't egalitarian. It puts white people, especially white men, in a position of inferiority, and I categorically reject it on that basis. Go look at the bills that are coming from leftist legislatures. They explicitly discriminate against white people or men, or are designed to do so. They're not even trying to hide it anymore. They just come right out of the closet and say fuck white people. If that's their attitude well they can go fuck themselves. That kindof shit happens all the time (e.g. https://www.governing.com/columns/col-problem-with-preferential-bids.html https://nypost.com/2021/02/25/bidens-covid-relief-bill-is-chock-full-of-anti-white-reverse-racism/ https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/oregon-cares-fund-lawsuit.html ) Giving preference to bids based on gender or race. Giving loans and other relief to businesses based on race and sex. Giving money out only to businesses owned by black people. Please, that's not egalitarian.
Why I should be on board with a party that advocates discriminating against people like me because of race or sex? Last I checked nearly every Democratic house representative, every Democratic senator, and Kamala Harris all voted for the legislation (tie-breaking vote) and President Biden signed it. There are words for these sort of things. It's called racism, sexism, and prejudice. That's what the Democratic party is doing these days, and if you can't see it then God help you because I sure can't.
@RM
I like Pie thinks for himself. He prefers western civilization over Indian civilization, and it is ideal for an immigrant to prefer the country they move to over the country of their origin.
But in terms of what I think about renaming Columbus day to indigenous people's day, telling westerners to hate Columbus because he did terrible stuff is like telling Mongolians to hate Ghengis Khan because Khan was a serial rapist and war lord, or telling Muslims to hate Mohammod because he raped a 6 year old girl and was also a war lord.
Nobody is suggesting renaming KhanAcademy, even though Khan was a genocidal maniac. So why people are trying to change Columbus day, I don't know.
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@secularmerlin
@RationalMadman
yeah how were the spanish colonists more humane than the british colonists?
Frm #30...Saint Augustine FL is oldest of the privilidedged ' white ' city classes in USA. The Spanish used slaves but were more humane;
ex a slave could buy their freedom,
become a Christian, the Spanish would conduct marriage ceremonies for
slaves wanting to marry each other and perhaps between slave and
Spaniard.
Whereas the British, who fought to control the Spanish city of Saint Aguustine, were much less humane towards the black slaves.
There is in a historical documentary about Saint Augustine and the above info but cannot recall its name.
The
Spanish lost control of Saint Augustine to the British when three of
the ships to support there soldiers where hit by a hurricane and lost
not too far off shore.
Here fro you RM, is google search. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&q=spanish+were++more+humane+to+indians+thant+the+british
Columbus was of the white priviledged class of human, but not all white privildedged class is created the same nor do they all share the same set of morals or have the same degree moral integrity adherence to a set of morals.
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@TheUnderdog
wtf are you talking about?
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@ebuc
ex a slave could buy their freedom,
how can a slave buy their freedom? Do you know how much a slave is paid per hour?
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@ebuc
I fail to see how either are humane in any way.
"give us your money and leave your religion and culture then your free"!
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@RationalMadman
how can a slave buy their freedom? Do you know how much a slave is paid per hour?
That is what the documentary stated. The value is whatever the Spaniards said it was. They were in control of all that involved the slaves so they can decide any value they choose to do. If you were the head honcho Spaniard in FL or Spain etc, you get to figure out that value.
This is not rocket science RM. Even you could arrive at a value for slave freedom.
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@BigPimpDaddy
I fail to see how either are humane in any way.
I stated more humane than way the British treated them. You need to go back and reread.
This is simple concept to grasp, for those who don't have mentally blockage to truth and simplicity.
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@TheUnderdog
Nobody is suggesting renaming KhanAcademy, even though Khan was a genocidal maniac.
Do you think Khan Academy is named after Genghis Khan?
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@ebuc
That is what the documentary stated. The value is whatever the Spaniards said it was. They were in control of all that involved the slaves so they can decide any value they choose to do. If you were the head honcho Spaniard in FL or Spain etc, you get to figure out that value.This is not rocket science RM. Even you could arrive at a value for slave freedom.
Slaves are not paid. They earn 0 per hour.
It is a disgusting scheme to say there's a price for freedom that they can earn when they can't earn it.
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@ebuc
Can you name the documentary please? I'd like to investigate both the source's motives and specific claims if I can get hold of them.
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@ebuc
I think you are referring to long ago in the Roman Empire, there was a way for very, very few 'slaves' (it meant something different back then) could 'earn' their freedom with a slave currency known as peculium.
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@zedvictor4
two correct pearls of wisdom
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@secularmerlin
leif Erickson’s colony was slaughtered by native Americans
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@Dr.Franklin
I wonder why they were so angry
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@RationalMadman
Why? You tell me
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@Dr.Franklin
I've said more than enough already.
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@Dr.Franklin
Yes
It turns out you can fight over things other than land ownership and that even if you don't believe in land ownership you can still believe in land rights. On a side note it really is a shame that we don't play together better.
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@RationalMadman
Can you name the documentary please? I'd like to investigate both the
source's motives and specific claims if I can get hold of them.
I stated in my first post here I cannot recall the name. Our friends show us the video at their house.
I did a general search and gave you a that google link. Did you go through even the first page of links, or open any of them.
I took the info I saw on the TV --might have been some History or Historical channel--- and that had Direct TV. Ive gotta go now.
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@ebuc
Based on what you have described, I think you are referring to the Roman Empire, not to Spanish colonialism.
This is why I am curious what documentary you watched.
Ironically, the Italians which were decendants of those that ran said Roman Empire were ruthless alongside the Spanish, Columbus was Italian.
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@RationalMadman
This is why I am curious what documentary you watched.
Found this at top of my next google search. My guess is, that this is the one we watched, tho cant say for sure. Seems like is was more than fiver years ago we watch it with them.
Also, ...." People who were enslaved could buy their freedom by obtaining a loan or
by being released from their masters before they died. In some cases,
slaves escaped and sought refuge in jungles and mountains. As the
number of escaped slaves increased, small populations emerged that would
be known as Palenques. Freed slaves who feared being subjugated again began to arrive at such sites. "...