Should the people that God burns in hell deserve to burn in hell forever

Author: TheUnderdog

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#1
TheUnderdog
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Liberal christains: Against cruel and unusual punishment and opposes the death penalty no matter what.

Conservative christains: Thinks China is evil for punishing people for disagreeing with the Chinese government.

God: Anybody who refuses to worship me and agree with me on everything by faith burns in hell forever (a fate worse than death).

Both types of Christains: This is fine.

Me: If your against the death penalty or against cencorship, you should call out God for being worse than communists in China for sentencing people to fates worse than death for their freedom of speech.
#2
Polytheist-Witch
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I don't believe Hell exists. Punishment is self inflicted. We are always progressing.
#3
FLRW
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@TheUnderdog
Well, God did give out belt buckles to all his angels that says "Hitler is With Us".
#4
BrotherDThomas
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TheUnderdog


YOUR QUOTE OF JESUS NOT BEING EVER LOVING AND FORGIVING:  "Should the people that God burns in hell deserve to burn in hell forever"

As the only TRUE Christian upon this Religion Forum, the simple answer is YES!  

My Jesus, as the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, states with specificity the following: "Jesus states that they shall be gathered together and hurled into a furnace of fire where there will be uncontrollable wailing and gnashing of teeth!" (Matthew 13:41-42, 50) Since Jesus' direct words states this as well: “EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5), therefore, since Jesus' words are flawless, who is any Christian to say that the sinners of Jesus' words should not burn in Hell for eternity, and at the same time, propose that Jesus is ever loving and forgiving?  2+2=5. Get it?


#5
Deb-8-a-bull
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I feal for the people who were tricked into joining the wrong religious groups.  
The penalty for that is burning in hell. 
#6
Intelligence_06
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Why not make peace and enjoy every minute in hell, since enjoyment is subjective? 😈 💦 
#7
949havoc
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@TheUnderdog
Every fire I've ever seen givers light, and there is no light in hell. The hellfire is allegory for suffering, but it isn't fire. Hell is also described as "outer darkness"
#8
Tradesecret
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@TheUnderdog
Hello,

I am not persuaded you ACTUALLY understand Christian thinking.  No offence meant, but continually you posit ideas purporting to be Christian but are not correct.   Where do you get your information?  Let me show you some examples from your positions below.

Liberal christains: Against cruel and unusual punishment and opposes the death penalty no matter what.
Liberal Christians believe everyone is going to heaven, i.e if they even believe in God. Most Liberal Christians do not believe in the concept of Hell. They believe in what is called universalism. This means everyone either goes to heaven when they die or they just cease to exist when they do die.  There are even a branch of liberal Christians who hold to reincarnation.  It is true that many liberal Christians oppose the death penalty, but ironically are ok with killing vulnerable babies. 

Conservative christains: Thinks China is evil for punishing people for disagreeing with the Chinese government.
Wow! One has to wonder where this opinion has arisen?  Do All conservative Christians think China is evil? I suppose some do. But hardly ALL.  Do the ones that do think China is evil because its government punishes people? I would be surprised, but if you could produce some links to this thought it would be nice. I think the Chinese government does punish people for not obeying it.  I think this punishment leaks out of China and around the world. Sanctions against America, Australia, Japan, Taiwan because each of these nations not only disagrees with China but refuses to tow the line they demand.   I don't think China is evil even for this punishment. China is a nation. Its people are people like you and me.   It is a nation ruled by the Communist Party and from the West's point of view - its punishment's are not so much for doing wrong but for dissenting.  I think most people see evil characteristics in any dictatorship which commands it people without giving freedom and liberty of choice.  

God: Anybody who refuses to worship me and agree with me on everything by faith burns in hell forever (a fate worse than death).
This is not the picture of the God of the Bible from the Christian point of view. It is admittedly a picture of God that people who are not Christians might see the God of the Bible portrayed. 

Christians teach that God made humanity good and gave him choices - lots of choices - with only one command.  Humanity willfully chose to break that one command despite the consequences.  God gave humanity the capacity to consider immortality with Him or death without God.  God as the creator has that prerogative. Humanity - chose to think God was a liar and would not punish him. Humanity thought poorly even though at that time there had been no punishment, no evil, everything was good. There was no scarcity. 

In the Garden of Eden, Adam could have chosen to eat from any of the other trees - anything he wanted. God did not say - you must eat the apple and you must cut it and then boil it.  God gave humanity freedom.  Humanity didn't want freedom - he wanted to be rid of God.  That is not just disobedience - it is TREASON. And Self determined suicide. And willingly. 

Non-Christians tend to think God created everything but gave man a choice to obey or not obey.  That of course is not what happened. God never gave Adam choice to obey or not obey. He gave him life and he gave him freedom in that life. Humanity chose death. And he chose everlasting death.  When a government make a law - e.g. not to speed. Is the government saying - hey, I am going to give you a choice. Speed or not speed. If you speed you get punished. If you don't you get to drive your car.  Now some people might like to think it is a choice. But the government does not agree with you.  It is not giving you a choice - or else it becomes responsible for your choice. If you speed and killed someone, you could still say - but the government gave me a choice.  But the fact is - when you speed - your choice - not the government giving you a choice - you are responsible.  What the government is saying is this: speeding is dangerous and you may well kill someone. We are not giving you a choice to speed. We are making a law that tells you that if you speed and hurt someone you ALONE are responsible. 

This is what God did in the Garden.  HE said to Adam - don't eat from this particular tree - a tree where you choose to decide what is good and evil.  If you do - it is dangerous and the suffering and pain and punishment you bring on yourself will be yours ALONE.   Humanity told God to get stuffed. Just like many people tell the government to get stuffed everytime they speed.  Breaking the speed limit is not treason. Telling God to get stuffed is. 

For the record there is a division between conservative Christians on Hell. Some believe in everlasting torture in Hell. Others believe in everlasting death. The latter group take the view that God grants everlasting life only to those who believe in Jesus. They say that it is belief in Jesus which gives life and that therefore to say someone lives forever in Hell is impossible because that is not life. 


Both types of Christains: This is fine.

This response reveals why I think you lack understanding.  Some Conservative Christians believe in Hell. Some don't.  Also no Liberal Christian believes in Hell. They believe all are saved or if not, then you die and no longer exist.   

Also conservative Christians don't think God is responsible - but humanity deciding for themselves that they prefer life or death without God. 

Me: If your against the death penalty or against cencorship, you should call out God for being worse than communists in China for sentencing people to fates worse than death for their freedom of speech.
Me. I think you lack a real understanding of Christianity. 


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#9
TheUnderdog
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@Tradesecret
They believe in what is called universalism. This means everyone either goes to heaven when they die or they just cease to exist when they do die.  There are even a branch of liberal Christians who hold to reincarnation.
Liberal christians don't believe in reincarnation.  Eastern faiths believe in that.

 Do All conservative Christians think China is evil? I suppose some do. But hardly ALL. 
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Conservatives think China is evil.

Humanity willfully chose to break that one command despite the consequences.  God gave humanity the capacity to consider immortality with Him or death without God.  
Humanity never consented to this.

God as the creator has that prerogative.
Just because you create a life does not mean you get the right to destroy the life.  Otherwise, a biological parent would be legally and morally allowed to kill the kid they created.

That is not just disobedience - it is TREASON.
Eating fruits isn't treason.

God never gave Adam choice to obey or not obey. He gave him life and he gave him freedom in that life.
This is a contradiction.

When a government make a law - e.g. not to speed. Is the government saying - hey, I am going to give you a choice. Speed or not speed. If you speed you get punished. If you don't you get to drive your car.
The government didn't give us a choice here.  The government is telling us what to do.  The only choice that is a free choice is one with no punishments levied by a 3rd party.

Breaking the speed limit is not treason. Telling God to get stuffed is. 
Telling God to get fucked over you not liking his law is like telling Biden to get fucked over you not liking his law.  Both are freedom of speech!  It's not treason to disagree with the people in charge.  God should grow a skin at least as thick as our politicians.

This response reveals why I think you lack understanding.  Some Conservative Christians believe in Hell. Some don't.  Also no Liberal Christian believes in Hell. They believe all are saved or if not, then you die and no longer exist.   
Most if not all Christians believe in hell.  Conservatives think atheists are going there.  Liberals think Trump supporters are going there.
#10
Tradesecret
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@TheUnderdog
Again, you just demonstrate your ignorance of Christians and of the Bible and of God. Still you are entitled to your own opinion and the implications of that opinion. 

They believe in what is called universalism. This means everyone either goes to heaven when they die or they just cease to exist when they do die.  There are even a branch of liberal Christians who hold to reincarnation.
Liberal christians don't believe in reincarnation.  Eastern faiths believe in that.
Eastern Religions do believe in reincarnation but so do many liberal Christians. I know quite a few from the Uniting Church in Australia who do. 

 Do All conservative Christians think China is evil? I suppose some do. But hardly ALL. 
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Conservatives think China is evil.
I have never heard any Christians say China is evil. I have heard them call the communist party evil. The two are not the same thing.  Perhaps you should ask them again to see if they are saying what you think. 

Humanity willfully chose to break that one command despite the consequences.  God gave humanity the capacity to consider immortality with Him or death without God.  
Humanity never consented to this.
Humans don't need to consent. There was no written contract.  God gave life. He did not need human's permission. You must think God is not god but rather just another human equal to humans.  What is your concept of God? 

God as the creator has that prerogative.
Just because you create a life does not mean you get the right to destroy the life.  Otherwise, a biological parent would be legally and morally allowed to kill the kid they created.
Well actually the power to give life does give you that preroggative. For just as easily as killing a life - he can bring them back again. Human don't create life. We ourselves have been given the ability to reproduce - but not all of us can do it.  This ability comes from God.  Your argument is weak. 

That is not just disobedience - it is TREASON.
Eating fruits isn't treason.

I never said eating fruit was treason. Willfully disobeying the God of the universe is. Telling God - sorry mate I can do it better than you is equivalent to telling the king or the government "I will rule and you wont".  IT is treason. 



God never gave Adam choice to obey or not obey. He gave him life and he gave him freedom in that life.
This is a contradiction.
Freedom only has meaning if there are limits to it. Without limits freedom is not freedom.  God never gave a choice to disobey.  There is no contradiction. 

When a government make a law - e.g. not to speed. Is the government saying - hey, I am going to give you a choice. Speed or not speed. If you speed you get punished. If you don't you get to drive your car.
The government didn't give us a choice here.  The government is telling us what to do.  The only choice that is a free choice is one with no punishments levied by a 3rd party.
That is right. It does not give you a choice.  That is its prerogative as the government.  Your last statement makes no sense.


Breaking the speed limit is not treason. Telling God to get stuffed is. 
Telling God to get fucked over you not liking his law is like telling Biden to get fucked over you not liking his law.  Both are freedom of speech!  It's not treason to disagree with the people in charge.  God should grow a skin at least as thick as our politicians.
Yes, it is similar - except it is not about telling God to get @#$$ - it is like the Capital invasion. Treason.  Freedom of Speech might be an American virtue but it is not a biblical one and for the record - not  a real human right.  It is treason to kick one out and replace yourself as government. 


This response reveals why I think you lack understanding.  Some Conservative Christians believe in Hell. Some don't.  Also no Liberal Christian believes in Hell. They believe all are saved or if not, then you die and no longer exist.   
Most if not all Christians believe in hell.  Conservatives think atheists are going there.  Liberals think Trump supporters are going there.
No there are MANY MANY Christians who do not believe in Hell. Look at the mormon church look at the JW. look at the site - rethinking Hell. John Stott - many people Christians in history. Liberals don't. 









#11
Deb-8-a-bull
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ETERNITY  ????
Burning in hell for an (  ETERNITY  ) 

You theists ain't the most like " straightforward "  when it comes to things like ummmmm  ( time allotments )   dates and measurements and shlt. 
Sooooooooooooo
 Using a bit of theistic math. And theistical common sense 
An    ( ETERNITY  )  couldn't be no more then 100,000 years could it ?


Can we agree 
An   ETERNITY is approx.   ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND YEARS . 
Orrrr 
An ETERNITY  is a long long time?.   Even back in them days. 


Good game.
Good game. 
#12
Deb-8-a-bull
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Forever   =   one million years. 

Now thats a long time. 
Forever  is like ten time longer then an eternity.  
#13
MonkeyKing
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@TheUnderdog
Liberal christains: Against cruel and unusual punishment and opposes the death penalty no matter what.
Conservative christains: Thinks China is evil for punishing people for disagreeing with the Chinese government.
God: Anybody who refuses to worship me and agree with me on everything by faith burns in hell forever (a fate worse than death).
Both types of Christains: This is fine.
I'm gonna ignore all this here. No offense, but this is largely speculated opinion. Unsourced opinion. Throw down an article or something and we can talk about the ramifications that the specific group and that belief have as a result of their opinion. Otherwise, Christianity is simply far to broad in belief to throw out these kinds of absolutes. If you wanna call on a particular one, we can talk about that.

Me: If your against the death penalty or against cencorship, you should call out God for being worse than communists in China for sentencing people to fates worse than death for their freedom of speech.
Here is your pure opinion, however, and we can work there. If, and only if, those previous statements are true then it is fair to say that arguing against the death penalty/censorship while supporting God is hypocritical. However, I personally believe in God. I consider myself a Christian. I believe Hell exists for all eternity and that we self-determinate based on what is most comfortable for our existence. An evil murderer/rapist wouldn't be very comfortable hanging out with the choir boys who spend all their time gardening, singing, and helping out old man Jenkins with his car. As a result, Hell exists for the purpose of housing those individuals who are too rotten to be elsewhere. I don't think there's nearly as many people going there as some might believe, but rather the select few who elect to that path. I don't believe "China" is evil as it is a country. In the same way Germany isn't "evil" or America, or Malawi, etc. I believe there can, and likely are, evil people there. Probably some in the ruling class as well. I believe in God as a Father figure, one who created our spirits and provides a place for our bodies. I believe religion, as per the old Latin, is meant to "reconnect" us to Him and that He has no interest in alienating His children. To say that anyone has truly believed everything God does is improbable to impossible and yet I believe He would still like us to return to Him and that there is a way to do so.  But again. This is my opinion, my specfic belief.

In my opinion, yours is built on some faulty presumptions and could use a onceover. Get specific with me, which denomination are you referring to, if any? Are you basing this solely on your experience with other Christians? Define God to me and his motivation in your eyes as well as why that is the case. Is your point focused on the issue of the death penalty/censorship/China or is it more that you believe God to be uncaring and thus deserves to be despised? Or that you believe Christians to be hypocritical as you have seen them?


#14
ethang5
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God: Anybody who refuses to worship me and agree with me on everything by faith burns in hell forever (a fate worse than death).

Both types of Christains: This is fine.
Where did you get that concept of God? Divine revelation? Cause it certainly isn't in the Bible.

If you must lie to make an anti-christian argument, your argument can't be worth much can it?