Biden: total failure

Author: 949havoc

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dustryder
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@sadolite
While I don't think you're wrong to say that the US spending budget is a horrible mess, the perspective of "I don't under how it benefits the US or how it personally benefits me, therefore toss it out" is incredibly shortsighted.
sadolite
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@dustryder
The days of govt doing anything to benefit "YOU" are over. Everything govt does is destroying peoples lives and financial future. What's short sighted is believing piling debt onto future generations to pacify the whining of today is a good idea.
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@dustryder
While I don't think you're wrong to say that the US spending budget is a horrible mess, the perspective of "I don't under how it benefits the US or how it personally benefits me, therefore toss it out" is incredibly shortsighted.
What a truly ridiculous comment.

Who do you think the US should be benefitting? Nigerians in Africa? Aliens on Mars? Turtles in creeks?

Of course the US budget should be aimed at helping primarily the US LOL. This help should also trickle-down to the individual level, wherein you have nice roads to drive on and disease-free groceries to shop for.

It's shortsighted NOT to do this because it slowly erodes US wealth -- you've got it completely backwards.

I can't even think how you reached this conclusion, and I'm trying my best to play Devil's Advocate.

Truly one of the stupidest comments to be posted on Dart.
ethang5
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@FLRW
America was energy independent under Trump

Yes,...
Thank you.

I'd rather be energy independent.
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@Mesmer
Who do you think the US should be benefitting? Nigerians in Africa? Aliens on Mars? Turtles in creeks?
The liberal's answer to all three is "yes". And by that yes he doesn't mean benefitting alongside, oh no, he means benefitting Nigerians, Aliens, and turtles FIRST.
Mesmer
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@ethang5
Who do you think the US should be benefitting? Nigerians in Africa? Aliens on Mars? Turtles in creeks?
The liberal's answer to all three is "yes". And by that yes he doesn't mean benefitting alongside, oh no, he means benefitting Nigerians, Aliens, and turtles FIRST.
100% this.

Btw I'm just trolling around in that thread with BrotherDThomas. He clearly is as well. I'm not even religious lol.

dustryder
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@Mesmer
It's quite simple really. If you cut a department you gain money. But what was the department using that money on, and consequently, what do you lose? 

Making an uninformed decision is pretty much the definition of shortsightedness
ethang5
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@Mesmer
Btw I'm just trolling around in that thread with BrotherDThomas. 
Everyone will know this but DeeDee. Let's just say he isn't real tight with reality.
Ramshutu
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@ethang5
One big aspect of your behaviour here, is that even when shown incontrovertible evidence that what you’re saying is a flat out, ridiculous lie: you will still repeat the lie.

Our first ever interaction was to claim I never voted against liberals or atheists - and you continued to make that claim repeatedly after being shown multiple examples of me doing just that.


So in that respect, and this is my entire point - facts don’t matter.


The real issue, is one of projection; which you demonstrate quite well above.


I strongly doubt you watch msnbc, have a NYT or WaPo subscription, browse Huffington Post, or CNN.

You’re determination about what the left is saying is not based on seeing it; but the snippets you are told by the wider right wing echo chamber.

It’s not reality, just a caricature. If you look at the real left wing media, there is, and was a tremendous amount of reporting on Afghanistan and how badly things are going. There were dozens of opeds about it, some Negative, some mitigating. 

So you’re accusations, for which you have not managed to support with anything either, don’t match up with reality.


Secondly; I used the example of Syria.

Here Trump went against the recommendation of his generals to pull out of Syria, abandoned the US allies who were responsible for fighting and holding ISIS; it lead to Turkey, seizing land, killing a bunch of former allies, and hundreds of not thousands of ISIS prisoners.

This was not criticized by the base, but was universally applauded by the base as a perfect example of doing the right thing ; despite by its nature it was very similar to what is happening in Afghanistan; with none of the mitigation.


Similarly, the Trump base - including you - has systematically indicated that contradictory information cannot be tolerated. Which is my hold point.

For example, there is a voluminous amount Of outrage on the left on some of things Biden is doing - such as refugee numbers, and more centrist approach.

The right, and people like you, often point out this controversy in the press and amongst the left when you want to argue Biden is bad; but then conveniently forget this criticism whilst trying to pretend the left simply follows everything Biden does.

On the other hand: when fox calls Arizona for Biden; or a right wing politician state’s there is no fraud - they are “cancelled” by the base. 

Conflicting opinions from the orthodoxy that Trump is always right is not allowed on the right - yet you just have to browse twitter to see a bunch of left wing activists shouting about Biden.



Alas: your accusations are not born out of reality - they are simply projection of someone for whom the narrative trumps reality, and who cannot tolerate conflicting opinions.



But by all means - please continue the baseless accusations; it primarily serves to prove my point.



cristo71
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@Ramshutu
“Only really true of one side”? How do you figure? It seems all too clear to me (as also evidenced on this very site) that there is a sizeable core base of President “NotTrump” supporters whose trusty refrain is “well, he’s still better than President Trump”— no matter how egregious the situation…
Ramshutu
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@cristo71
“Only really true of one side”? How do you figure? It seems all too clear to me (as also evidenced on this very site) that there is a sizeable core base of President “NotTrump” supporters whose trusty refrain is “well, he’s still better than President Trump”— no matter how egregious the situation…
Biden has done a number of not great things. Some mistakes, some policy issues; big foreign policy errors -  I don’t think Afghanistan warrants as big a black mark as is being portrayed; but there are lots of low level issues for sure.

Trump was an utter dumpster fire; wall to wall corruption, contempt for the rule of law, systematic undermining of key opposing institutions for the purposes of maintaining his own power; and clear cut abuses of his own power that culminated in him undermining public health in order to prop up his economic message for re-election; and then finally undermining US democracy by pushing a lie that the election was stolen and attempting to foment enough popular support to force an undemocratic override of an election in order to maintain power.


The key issue in your response is the utterly false pretence that the “no matter how egregious” even comes close to the abuses of Trump.

The pretence appears to implicitly presume that Biden and Truro have done things that are equally bad. 

That is clearly, patently and ridiculously untrue.


Now, how do I figure this strict adherence to orthodoxy is only true of one side? Easy:

You’re not seeing liberal politicians culled because they disagree with Biden. Hell, the left is a loose affiliation of different groups that are always in disagreement.

You don’t see large left wing groups Calling for a boycott of CNN because they called North Carolina for Trump...

Trump is defended for everything - from his suggestion that they should look at injecting disinfectants as a potential treatment; to taking the side of someone who attacked America, to clear abuse of power. There is no real analogue on the left.

This is not to say that there are not hints; of course the left defaults to defending their side, often to the point of defending things that shouldn’t be defended. But the extremes of how strongly, how egregiously wrong, and the required adherence to orthodoxy is not even close.

This false equivalent is nauseating: because Biden is sort-of half defended for a Chaotic pullout of Afghanistan, with an acknowledgement that things are pretty bad, based upon a broad set of facts: and Trump supporters full throated lauded the pull out of Syria, admitting no error or issues as Former American allies that defeated ISIS fled, of were killed by Turkey, allowing hundreds of ISIs prisoners to escape - all against advice of his military - they’re treated as “the same”.

No. These are very different things at very different levels; and when things do get actually bad - everything in the base and on the left clearly shows the defence only goes so far. Take for example, calls for Cuomos resignation, now he’s gone. Take this very thing with Afghanistan, much negative press, negative coverage, and a left wing that partially understands, but acknowledges that it’s a clusterf**k. Together with general angst on the left about Biden’s policies clearly shows that while the left does defend the democratic president, that defense goes so far.

cristo71
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@Ramshutu
Hmm… well, I’m going to have to disagree with your characterization of events. And remember, we are only 8 months in with this administration!

If you’re familiar with Sam Harris, he once cited a survey in which a significant portion of the respondents claimed that given the choice between a large asteroid hitting the earth or having Trump get re-elected in 2020, they would choose the asteroid. No fan of Trump himself, Harris nonetheless had to admit that that is not a preference based in rationality.

I think that history will show that Trump’s foreign policy results compare favorably to those of his successor. But, again, the current President still has over 3 more years to improve upon or double down upon his current record.
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@cristo71
What kind of an idiotic survey is that, I'd also choose that option because it was the only survey option to show disdain for trump and I'd know it wouldn't really happen.

Sam Harris is just a rhetoric master, when it comes to real core reasoning he's actually the weakest of the 'four horsemen' in my opinion.

Hitchens could defeat him with ease, he just didn't want a battle with Harris. Dawkins is my fave but Dennett is no joke.
FLRW
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Sam Harris's book, The End of Faith is a fantastic read.
949havoc
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Seems within three quarters, Biden's popularity is upside-down.
Ramshutu
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@cristo71
I think the characterization is actually particularly accurate; but as you haven’t objected to anything; it’s largely irrelevant at this point.

I will say something that should be obvious: when people chose a meteor over Trump in an online poll, it does not mean the majority of the left genuinely believe a meteor is better than Trump; the same way it is not the case that most people genuinely wanted the next flavour of Mountain Dew to be “hitler did nothing wrong”.

Frankly; that you seem able to read such things into that poll, tells me that you’re lacking something fundamental that is going to prevent any meaningful intellectual discussion.
cristo71
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@Ramshutu
I don’t see how you equate “I disagree” with “I have no objections” as they are exactly opposite in meaning, but thanks for your comprehensive answer earlier nonetheless.

If I was intellectually naive to believe Sam Harris’ take on some poll result, then mea culpa, and I can certainly live with that, as I tend to respect his reasoning abilities. But, yes, ultimately I agree with you that further discussion of politics with you would be neither enjoyable nor beneficial for either of us. Our frames of reference are perhaps too different. Such is the nation as a whole, sadly…