Fruit_inspector should be able to lead me through his reasoning (rather than question how justification works) if his position is something he has considered.
Which seems to be your justification for the claim that no one knows what happens after death - because no one has convinced you.I think it is that no one has come back from death and shown us pictures that they had taken on their iphone. Remember that your afterlife will be the same as your beforelife.
What makes you think your afterlife will be the same as your before life
I'll just make my point so it doesn't seem tangential. Circular reasoning is not necessarily invalid if the reasoning is based on a valid premise:If the Bible is true, then circular reasoning based on the Bible claiming it is true is not fallacious - though it may not be particularly persuasive to someone else.
Circular reasoning which adds nothing new to the conversation is fallacious. To your point we all rely on circular reasoning of some sort, thats true, but the fallaciousness comes in the small circles. 'My book is true because it says its true' is a tiny circle compared to 'trial and error has shown us (humanity) these rules of logic are always true (or have never been shown wrong)'. All rings are not equal. ;-)
If the Bible is true, then circular reasoning based on the Bible claiming it is true is not fallacious - though it may not be particularly persuasive to someone else.The argument is fallacious- and it can be demonstrated with every Biblical error, scientific absurdity, ignorance, and inequality attributed to an 'all knowing, all powerful, loving god' ...along with the interpolation, redaction, and general and undeniable human corruption of the so-called "Word of God".If that is your standard, you don't know very much about the Bible, my friend. I don't imagine this is something you will be able to accept from me though. We can discuss it only if you prefer. If not, suffice to say there's probably not any way I'm going to be able to accept your standard and we'll leave it at that.
What makes you think your afterlife will be the same as your before lifeBecause the 86 billion neurons in your brain will not exist after you die just like they didn't exist before you were born. You can only think in the language you learned while you were alive.
-->@SkepticalOneWell he was nailed to the wall the second Polytheist - Witch posted this:#3 Polytheist-Witch "Paul is a liar and corruptor of the messages of Jesus Christ you are either a Christian or Pauline".He was just far too up himself to see where that was going .
I agree that we are the ones who create words and their definitions. However, words in and of themselves do not change the ontological nature of a thing. If I see a horse but I call it a tree, it doesn't change the fact that I am looking at a large four-legged animal. But in this case, my deviation from the accepted definition of tree will probably not cause an ethical dilemma.On the other hand, if I exclude a fetus from the definition of human because it has not exited the birth canal, all of a sudden we have an ethical issue created by a definition. If human rights only apply to humans, then our definition of "human" will have serious ethical implications. So, if those who are communicating cannot agree on what a human is in the abortion debate, how can we ever know whether a fetus is a human?
No. I'm saying claims should not be accepted as true until they can be shown connected to objective reality in some way.Can you show Paul is talking about a real thing? If not, you're skipping a step in asking for refutation.I'm curious. In regards to what?Something in the thread, I'm sure. (I don't remember, it was a long time ago!)Welcome back, Peter!
Stephen Hawking spoke candidly in a 2011 Guardian interview about what he believes happens when people die. He told the Guardian that while he "wasn't afraid of death," he was in no hurry to die. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail," he said. "There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."Wow, SkepticalOne sounds like Hawking and PGA2.0 sounds like Jim Bakker.
Jesus rose from the dead!
Jesus rose from the dead!You are lacking in evidence though, aren't you? An empty rich man's tomb is only evidence of an empty rich man's tomb. No one witnessed the stone being rolled away and no one actually witnessed Jesus rising from being "dead". And many are only alleged to have witnessed a very much alive and healthy Jesus, wounds and all.
Paul was a self confessed liar. He spoke of him lying to further the cause of his beliefs.“If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”Romans 3:7So there it is. Paul claiming to do what ever it takes including telling bare faced lies.
Paul also doctors Old Testament verses to further his own Christian agenda . .... just as many Christians do to this day. A lesson they learned from lying ' St' Paul no doubt.Example:Isaiah 28:16 King James Version" Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste".Now see what crafty ole' Paul does with that?Romans 9:33 PAUL's VersionAs it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumbling stone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Would you like another?Deuteronomy 30:14 PAUL's Version" But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it".Romans 10:8 PAUL's VersionBut what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;".
Jeremiah 31:32 King James Version" Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord":Hebrews 8:9 PAUL's Version"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord".
Ok, I will amend my statement:I don't know what happens after death, and no one that I know of can show they know more. ;-)Better?Again, it is your presumption that no one can show they know.
Paul was a self confessed liar. He spoke of him lying to further the cause of his beliefs.“If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”Romans 3:7So there it is. Paul claiming to do what ever it takes including telling bare faced lies.What you do is take selected Scripture out of its context or collapse it to make it a pretext.
Ok, I will amend my statement:I don't know what happens after death, and no one that I know of can show they know more. ;-)Better?Again, it is your presumption that no one can show they know.Its not a presumption when there is no demonstration of an afterlife. :-)
Paul was a self confessed liar. He spoke of him lying to further the cause of his beliefs.“If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?”Romans 3:7So there it is. Paul claiming to do what ever it takes including telling bare faced lies.What you do is take selected Scripture out of its context or collapse it to make it a pretext.Watch this 5 minute clip that sums up the ignorant buffoons that make this uneducated ridiculous claim perfectly.
Context
as it is written: “There is no righteous person, not even one;..."
During the 1st-century over 500 eyewitnesses attested to the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
During the 1st-century over 500 eyewitnesses attested to the resurrection of Jesus Christ.Actually, one man *claimed* there was 500 witnesses.
During the 1st-century over 500 eyewitnesses attested to the resurrection of Jesus Christ.Actually, one man *claimed* there was 500 witnesses.There is no historical account of it being disputed, and it was not just one man that witnessed His resurrection. Peter, John, James, and other NT writers speak of witnessing the resurrected Christ.Matthew -and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.Mark -Mark 16 records Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of [a]James, and Salome witnessing the empty tomb and are told,"7 But go, tell His disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see Him, just as He told you.’”Luke -just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the mother of James; also the other women with them reported the empty tomb and spread the news to the Apostles. Later on that very day two disciples meet the resurrected Christ on the road to Emmaus.13 And behold, on that very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, which was [g]sixty stadia from Jerusalem...31 And then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from [o]their sight.They tell this to others and while doing so Christ once again appears to the group.36 Now while they were telling these things, Jesus Himself suddenly stood in their midst and *said to them, “Peace be to you.”John -John 20 records the resurrected Jesus appearing to the disciples and later to Thomas.19 Now when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were [b]shut where the disciples were together due to fear of the [c]Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and *said to them, “Peace be to you.” 20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples then rejoiced when they saw the Lord...26 [f]Eight days later His disciples were again inside, and Thomas was with them. Jesus *came, the doors having been [g]shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be to you.” 27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Place your finger here, and see My hands; and take your hand and put it into My side; and do not continue in disbelief, but be a believer.” 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you now believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”Acts -Acts 1:2 until the day when He was taken up to heaven, after He had given orders [b]by the Holy Spirit to the apostles whom He had chosen. 3 To [c]these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of things regarding the kingdom of God. 4 [d]Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for [e]what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5 for John baptized [f]with water, but you will be baptized [g]with the Holy Spirit [h]not many days from now.”...Peter -EyewitnessesFor we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.Then you have Paul's Damascus experience and I could probably cite many more recorded Scriptural instances, so you point does not meet the evidence of Scripture presented by many authors.
No response?
as it is written: “There is no righteous person, not even one;..."
