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@Vader
If you fall down and break all your legs and can't get up and I shoot you, is that murder?
Only if you can prove it with an autopsy.
policeman in george floyd case should probably be found innocent
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@Greyparrot
He is on trial for third degree murder, which he committed by him kneeling down for 9 minutes with someone who was clearly already captured
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@Vader
which he committed by him kneeling down for 9 minutes with someone who was clearly already captured
Which wasn't strangulation. If I place my hand on your neck and pat it light enough so that no bruising occurs...did I contribute to your death when you swallowed 3x the OD level of Fentanyl?
Maybe in fantasyland.
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@Vader
Even so, the proper conduct of a police officer is not kneel down on the victim for 9 minutes straight.
Time limit is never specified in training. Plus he’s done the same thing without incident in the past and no one said anything to him.
This was a misconduct that wouldn't have escalated if properly brought down and not be held down for 9 minute.
It wouldn’t have escalated that far if Floyd didn’t resist like his buddies.
It is third degree murder even if he had drugs since the ultimate factor was him passing out on the ground.
You need to prove beyond a “reasonable doubt” to convict on these charges. Clearly that’s not the case here.
Did he have drugs? Yes. Was he delusional? No I severly doubt he was that delusional.
He literally said he couldn’t breathe before he was even on the ground. That means he was suffering from cardiac arrest at that exact time. The medical doctor testified that administration of Narcan wouldn’t have done anything if he started suffering cardiac arrest.
He could properly hold a conversation. Either way, the cops involved are guilty of third degree murder. Floyd was unarmed and everything yet they held him to his neck for 9 minutes despite him being unable to breathe.
He was actively resisting for at least half the time. The other half was when Chauvin waited for EMS to arrive, something he and other officers have done in the past. Cause believe it or not people under arrest fake passing out.
The autopsy reports suggests that it was because of the knee that this is what led to his death as he was functional before.
Citation? The State Medical Examiner Andrew Baker did NOT say that anywhere in his report.
You saw the footage in the store. He didn't seem to be delirious and walked around fine.
He was clearly delirious lol. The shop owner who he handed the fake 20 dollar bill too said he looked like he had been drinking lmao
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@Greyparrot
His friend, Morries Hall, the drug dealer who is now implicated in his death because he gave Floyd the drugs that he then swallowed in an attempt to destroy evidence is pleading the fifth. This isn't over.
There’s video of Floyd having a white substance in his mouth when the cops came
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@Vader
If you fall down and break all your legs and can't get up and I shoot you, is that murder?
Cause of death would be a bullet in this case lol. You’re not even making sense
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@Greyparrot
It’s horrible how much the media have controlled the narrative in this case. I pray the jury gets the same cognitive dissonance that’s gonna arise in the public
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@ILikePie5
The defense Attorneys haven't even gotten started.
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@Greyparrot
The defense Attorneys haven't even gotten started.
Ya I know. He deserves to walk.
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@ILikePie5
How do you do that emote? :)
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@ILikePie5
Nice way to dodge. If you claim that Floyd died of asphyxiation, why is that NO WHERE in the autopsy?
The finding of the autopsy is that he died as a result of "restraint, and neck compression" and that Geroge died by homicide. How is this unclear?
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@ILikePie5
You haven’t cited any sources that state that Andrew Baker, the state’s medical examiner died due to asphyxiation.
what? is andrew baker dead?
Rather the prosecution themselves in their criminal complaint bring up the fact that Bakers “findings include that Floyd did not die from asphyxia or strangulation.”
the official findings are that George died by homicide caused by "law enforcement subdual,restraint, and neck compression". You are trying to distract by throwing out very specific medical terms. It's like if a guy was stabbed to death and some idiot just kept saying "the autopsy confirms he wasn't shot, so i'm innocent!". 2 Autopsies confirmed that Chauvin killed George. Why are you splitting hairs about the precise medical terminology of how he killed him?
Other “experts’” opinions are irrelevant since they didn’t do the autopsy or they’re biased beyond belief which is the case of the Floyd families person who did the autopsy.
all autopsies done have agreed that Chauvin killed george by homicide.
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@HistoryBuff
The finding of the autopsy is that he died as a result of "restraint, and neck compression" and that Geroge died by homicide. How is this unclear?
Because I don’t think you understand what homicide means in a medical sense. We know for a fact that Floyd did not die due to asphyxiation or strangulation because Baker said as much.
Homicide only “one of five categories medical examiners use to label causes of death and it indicates that “someone’s intentional actions led to the death of another person,” says Gregory G. Davis, president of the National Association of Medical Examiners. The other four labels are suicide, accident, natural, and undetermined, Davis says.
So in a medical examiner’s report “homicide” just means one person intentionally did something that led to the death of someone else. It doesn’t mean the death was intentional and it doesn’t mean it was a crime.”
This was the case in both the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. Both were labeled homicides by the medical examiners but both officers walked.
Still glad to see you’re walking back on your asphyxiation claims tho
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@ILikePie5
Compression with no bruising...lol...
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@HistoryBuff
what? is andrew baker dead?
I meant George Floyd. Provide sources that state the medical examiner Andrew Baker stated in his report that George Floyd died to asphyxiation.
You are trying to distract by throwing out very specific medical terms.
That’s how courts work in case you didn’t know.
It's like if a guy was stabbed to death and some idiot just kept saying "the autopsy confirms he wasn't shot, so i'm innocent!".
This analogy doesn’t even make sense lol. The autopsy would state that he died because of cuts and like and therefore the guy would be guilty. Here you have the fact that George Floyd didn’t die because of asphyxiation but rather cardiac arrest. You can’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin kneeling on him caused that when Floyd had 3x the OD level of fentanyl + methamphetamine + alcohol + he had adrenaline rush because he was being arrested.
Especially if you consider that Chauvin has pulled the same maneuver in the past and nothing happened then - he was neither reprimanded by his superiors, nor did anyone die.
2 Autopsies confirmed that Chauvin killed George. Why are you splitting hairs about the precise medical terminology of how he killed him?
Only 1 autopsy matters in this case and that’s the one done by Andrew Baker.
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@Greyparrot
Compression with no bruising...lol...
The key here is the fact that Floyd was saying he couldn’t breathe even before he got put to the ground, which is a classic symptom of fentanyl confirmed by every medical witness the state put on. He was clearly delirious based on the shop owner’s account. He was actively resisting and couldn’t balance himself. It’s pretty simple. Either Floyd was suffering from cardiac arrest before he ever got put to the ground in which case the officers couldn’t do much about it or, he was ODing on fentanyl causing his brain to think he couldn’t breathe which caused cardiac arrest.
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@ILikePie5
how do you do that emote?
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@Greyparrot
how do you do that emote?
Which one lol
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@ILikePie5
the hands up one
Your signature
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@Greyparrot
the hands up oneYour signature
👍
You gotta access DART from your phone and then type it straight from your phone
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@ILikePie5
crap👍
It's not just murder, it's a hate crime to be clear. I am not sure what the fuck this thread is about, as I said in my previous post I don't comprehend wtf this OP is even regarding.
If someone is dying and you murder them, you are still a murderer unless it comes under the legal definition of euthanasia and this was not even close to euthanasia, which is irrelevant under US law regardless.
What happened was disgusting and a lot more has to change than just one officer getting convicted, this is a bare minimum requirement for the progress.
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@ILikePie5
Still glad to see you’re walking back on your asphyxiation claims tho
I never made "asphyxiation claims". I said Chauvin killed George, which is true.
So in a medical examiner’s report “homicide” just means one person intentionally did something that led to the death of someone else. It doesn’t mean the death was intentional and it doesn’t mean it was a crime.”
I know. I explained that pretty much verbatim to greyparrot. A medical examiner doesn't determine if someone is guilty of a crime, that is the job of the courts. They rule on what killed a person. In this case, Chauvin killed george by kneeling on his neck. That is what the autopsy says.
If, for example, Chauvin had been following police training and guidelines on how to restrain someone and george had died, Chauvin would probably be innocent as he was just doing his job. But he wasn;t. He was using excessive force and for far longer than could possibly be justified. so the facts are
1) chauvin was using excessive force on george for far longer than could be justified in defiance of police protocol. (as testified by his superiors)
2) this led to the death of George, as per the findings of 2 autopsies
3) since Chauvin was breaching the rules for what he was supposed to be doing and thereby killed george, that is murder. Whether it is 2nd degree muder or 3rd degree (manslaughter) is still an open question though.
I meant George Floyd. Provide sources that state the medical examiner Andrew Baker stated in his report that George Floyd died to asphyxiation.
that is a misdirect. I have already told you what Andrew baker determined the cause of death to be. and it was homicide as caused by "restraint, and neck compression"
That’s how courts work in case you didn’t know.
they ignore the findings of autopsies? I don't think you know how courts work.
This analogy doesn’t even make sense lol. The autopsy would state that he died because of cuts and like and therefore the guy would be guilty.
the autopsy says he died by "restraint, and neck compression" by Chauvin. You are then trying to get me to prove he died of asphyxiation. But that is obviously a misdirect. My analogy makes perfect sense because I have told you over and over what the autopsy says and you keep trying to get me to prove it says something else.
You can’t prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin kneeling on him caused that when Floyd had 3x the OD level of fentanyl + methamphetamine + alcohol + he had adrenaline rush because he was being arrested.
there's no evidence that killed him. and even if that did play a role, Chauvin breaking police protocol and kneeling on his neck would still have played a critical role in his death and he would still be guilty of murder.
Only 1 autopsy matters in this case and that’s the one done by Andrew Baker.
no, both autopsies matter. Especially since they both agree that Chauvin killed George.
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@Greyparrot
So what? Chauvin isn't on trial for violating police policy.
I never said he was on trial for violating police policy. You said there are "hundreds and hundreds of hours of body cam footage" of the cops violating police policy in the same exact manner -- a claim for which you have offered no evidence whatsoever -- and then suggested that this alleged footage vindicates the defendant which is just something you made up in conjunction with other trash legal analysis. Not sure why.
How about you point to me in the autopsy report the evidence that Floyd's neck sustained trauma that contributed to his death since HB can't seem to find it either.
Yeah, imposing burdens of proof on myself for claims I never made is not really something I have time for. You can find the autopsies labeling Floyd's death a homicide pretty readily though. The county autopsy said he died from cardiopulmonary arrest and the Floyd family's independent autopsy said he died from asphyxia. As I said this will come down to competing medical testimony; of course the defense will be able to find experts to testify that Floyd "would have died anyway." I don't think the jury will buy it though. I really think this could be the first time a cop is held accountable in a major case for their unquestionably unjustifiable behavior.
Yeah, imposing burdens of proof on myself for claims I never made is not really something I have time for.
This thread is full of non-claims and walkbacks... lol!
You can find the autopsies labeling Floyd's death a homicide pretty readily though.
Same with any other cop trial. In fact, nearly EVERY suicide-by-cop type trial has homicide listed on the report because there is no option for any other listing.
You all know that In 2013, the family of 28-year-old David Smith successfully sued Minneapolis, Minnesota for $3.075 million, the "second-largest for police misconduct" in the city's history, when the Smith family's legal team—cited evidence from a Minneapolis police officer's body-worn camera (BWC) showing that the officers had used the "controversial" police technique called prone restraint to subdue Smith. According to a June 1, 2013 Star Tribune article, MPD officers had "forced Smith onto his stomach, then placed a knee in his back and held him down for about four minutes, which the family attorneys said made it impossible for him to breathe."[
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@FLRW
You all know that In 2013, the family of 28-year-old David Smith successfully sued Minneapolis, Minnesota for $3.075 million, the "second-largest for police misconduct" in the city's history, when the Smith family's legal team—cited evidence from a Minneapolis police officer's body-worn camera (BWC) showing that the officers had used the "controversial" police technique called prone restraint to subdue Smith. According to a June 1, 2013 Star Tribune article, MPD officers had "forced Smith onto his stomach, then placed a knee in his back and held him down for about four minutes, which the family attorneys said made it impossible for him to breathe."[
You conveniently forgot to mention that the officers were never charged in this case
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@FLRW
You can win a civil suit against the incompetent government these days for claiming they farted in your direction. Hell, Canada's Government "gave" 10 million to a known terrorist.
In fact, the what was it... the 27 million dollars the city "paid" out? Several jurors had to be released for believing the city was partly guilty. Chauvin didn't pay a dime.
I've already shown you the evidence that anywhere from 500-700 pounds is required to compress a chest from the back enough to stop breathing, and there really is no rebuttal.
The amount of compression force required to stop a person from breathing from the back or the neck would have absolutely left evidence on an autopsy report.
Instead, the only broken rib noted was attributed to a much larger compression force used to resuscitate Floyd than the knee on his back restraining him from flailing. The autopsy showed the cuff abrasions on Floyd's wrists from when Floyd was flailing.
Zero Autopsy evidence of trauma from the back OR the neck. Zero.
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@Greyparrot
Same with any other cop trial. In fact, nearly EVERY suicide-by-cop type trial has homicide listed on the report because there is no option for any other listing.
this response makes no sense. You are saying in cases where a cop kills someone, homicide is what is on the autopsy. But that is what "homicide" means. It means someone killed someone else. In George's case that is what is in dispute. IE did Chauvin kill him or was it something else? The autopsy says Chauvin did it. Are you conceding that Chauvin killed him?
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@HistoryBuff
You are saying in cases where a cop kills someone
I'm saying when someone makes life-altering choices that forces a cop to kill him partly because the person doesn't want to live anymore, suicide-by-cop isn't an option for a coroner.
This was also recorded as a homicide for example.
No officers went to jail.
The autopsy says Chauvin did it.
Man, your reading for detail is SO bad. Nowhere does Chauvin's name appear in the autopsy report. Why are you making shit up?