policeman in george floyd case should probably be found innocent

Author: n8nrgmi

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Danielle
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@Greyparrot
This thread is full of non-claims and walkbacks... lol!
Of course because that's your M.O. But I never said anything about George Floyd's neck or manner of death, so I have no idea why you think I should be burdened with citing evidence that has anything to do with either of those things lol. Very strange. 

What I actually said and have not walked back at all is that you've offered no indication it's true that there are "hundreds and hundreds of hours of body cam footage" of cops violating police policy and kneeling on the neck of someone who is handcuffed and showing no signs of consciousness. 

Then I said the primary defense will be that Floyd overdosed. I didn't say anything about blunt force, wounds or trauma but okurrrr. 

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@Danielle
I love you.
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@ILikePie5
I predict a hung jury.
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@Greyparrot
I'm saying when someone makes life-altering choices that forces a cop to kill him partly because the person doesn't want to live anymore, suicide-by-cop isn't an option for a coroner.
ok. but that is completely irrelevant to this case. Homicide means the cop killed them. whether that is justified or not isn't something the coroner considers. That is for the police and/or the courts to decide. 

Both autopsies have confirmed that Chauvin killed George. Are you conceding that fact?

Man, your reading for detail is SO bad. Nowhere does Chauvin's name appear in the autopsy report. Why are you making shit up?
no, it says he was killed by the restraining of the police and "neck compression". Unless there was some other cop crushing George's neck, there is no question that the autopsy ruled chauvin killed george. 
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@HistoryBuff
crushing George's neck
Oh boy, now you are coming back with the "crush the neck" claim? I am sure the defense team will have no problem discrediting that specific claim.
 
There's just no forensic proof that it happened at all. 🤷‍♂️ 
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@HistoryBuff
ok. but that is completely irrelevant to this case. Homicide means the cop killed them. whether that is justified or not isn't something the coroner considers. That is for the police and/or the courts to decide. 

Both autopsies have confirmed that Chauvin killed George. Are you conceding that fact?
You’re admitting that homicide doesn’t mean that Chauvin killed Floyd and then proceed to say Chauvin killed Floyd. #Logic

Homicide is just a classification used when the other 4 aren’t applicable.
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@ILikePie5
Homicide is the act of one human killing another. A homicide requires only a volitional act by another person that results in death, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm.
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@FLRW
Homicide is the act of one human killing another. A homicide requires only a volitional act by another person that results in death, and thus a homicide may result from accidental, reckless, or negligent acts even if there is no intent to cause harm.
That’s not the medical definition of homicide. I defined the medical definition on the previous page. Medical examiners found homicides for Michael Brown and Eric Garner. Both officers walked.
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@Greyparrot
oh boy, now you are coming back with the "crush the neck" claim? I am sure the defense team will have no problem discrediting that specific claim.
that is literally the finding of both autopsies. You are just going in circles now. I am coming back with "claims" by quoting the findings of the autopsy?
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@ILikePie5
You’re admitting that homicide doesn’t mean that Chauvin killed Floyd and then proceed to say Chauvin killed Floyd. #Logic
no, you are misunderstanding. homicide means Chauvin killed floyd. That is what the autopsy findings are. Whether that is murder or not is up to the courts. 

Homicide is just a classification used when the other 4 aren’t applicable.
homicide means one person killed another. In this case, Chauvin killed George. What is unclear about that?
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@ILikePie5
That’s not the medical definition of homicide. I defined the medical definition on the previous page. Medical examiners found homicides for Michael Brown and Eric Garner. Both officers walked.
Homicide means one person killed another. It is possible for a homicide to not be a crime. Like self defense. That is justifiable homicide. 

The medical findings are that Chauvin killed George. Whether or not that is murder is up to the courts. 
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@HistoryBuff
homicide means one person killed another. In this case, Chauvin killed George. What is unclear about that?
I literally don’t see your point on this argument. If homicide rulings mean so and so killed so and so, then how are the cops in the Eric Garner and Michael Brown free?

Both of their deaths were ruled homicides and both officers walked. Wanna explain that to me?
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@ILikePie5
Both of their deaths were ruled homicides and both officers walked. Wanna explain that to me?
You seem to be conflating the words "Homicide" and "murder". They aren't the same thing. Homicide isn't a crime. It is a cause of death.

Any time a person kills another person, it is homicide, but it isn't always a crime. If someone tries to murder me and I kill them in self defense, I haven't committed a crime. But I have a committed a homicide. 

In those cases you referenced, the homicide was ruled to not be a crime (self defense etc). That is why they weren't convicted of any crimes. But they both still committed a homicide. That was never in question.



FLRW
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@ILikePie5
As far as the Eric Garner case is concerned, Garner  was arrested and then one of the police officers then used his hands to push Garner's face into the sidewalk. Garner is heard saying "I can't breathe" eleven times while lying face down on the sidewalk.The police sergeant called an ambulance and indicated that Mr. Garner was having trouble breathing, but reportedly added that he "did not appear to be in great distress". Garner lay motionless, handcuffed, and unresponsive for several minutes before an ambulance arrived, as shown in a second video. After Garner lost consciousness, officers turned him onto his side to ease his breathing. Garner remained lying on the sidewalk for seven minutes. When an ambulance arrived, two medics and two EMTs inside the ambulance did not place Garner on oxygen, administer any emergency medical aid or promptly place him on a stretcher. According to police, Garner had a heart attack while being transported to Richmond University Medical Center He was pronounced dead at the hospital one hour later. 
See the difference?
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@HistoryBuff
You seem to be conflating the words "Homicide" and "murder". They aren't the same thing. Homicide isn't a crime. It is a cause of death. 

Any time a person kills another person, it is homicide, but it isn't always a crime. If someone tries to murder me and I kill them in self defense, I haven't committed a crime. But I have a committed a homicide. 

In those cases you referenced, the homicide was ruled to not be a crime (self defense etc). That is why they weren't convicted of any crimes. But they both still committed a homicide. That was never in question.
Again: so what’s your point?

Based on the report you can’t determine guilt. Burden of proof is on the prosecution not defense. “Beyond a reasonable doubt.”
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@FLRW
As far as the Eric Garner case is concerned, Garner  was arrested and then one of the police officers then used his hands to push Garner's face into the sidewalk. Garner is heard saying "I can't breathe" eleven times while lying face down on the sidewalk.The police sergeant called an ambulance and indicated that Mr. Garner was having trouble breathing, but reportedly added that he "did not appear to be in great distress". Garner lay motionless, handcuffed, and unresponsive for several minutes before an ambulance arrived, as shown in a second video. After Garner lost consciousness, officers turned him onto his side to ease his breathing. Garner remained lying on the sidewalk for seven minutes. When an ambulance arrived, two medics and two EMTs inside the ambulance did not place Garner on oxygen, administer any emergency medical aid or promptly place him on a stretcher. According to police, Garner had a heart attack while being transported to Richmond University Medical Center He was pronounced dead at the hospital one hour later. 
See the difference?
How is this related to the fact that it was labeled a homicide. Again: the ruling of a homicide by a medical examiner doesn’t mean Chauvin is guilty. It’s as simple as that. Burden of proof is on prosecution not the defense.


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@Greyparrot
Hung Jury or Acquittal - Calling it rn. This is before any of the defense witnesses too lmfao

FLRW
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@ILikePie5
Derek Chauvin will be found guilty of second-degree murder .
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@FLRW
Derek Chauvin will be found guilty of second-degree murder .
You’re assuming he is guilty based on the fact Floyd’s death was ruled a homicide, when that wasn’t the case in very similar cases.

Chauvin likely gets acquitted or there’s a hung jury
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@HistoryBuff
You seem to be conflating the words "Homicide" and "murder". They aren't the same thing.
That is correct. Nowhere in the press release is the word murder found.

The difference between a Prosecutor and a Medical Examiner is that only one must legally provide evidence for his conclusions. Can you guess which one that is?
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@ILikePie5
Again: so what’s your point?

Based on the report you can’t determine guilt. Burden of proof is on the prosecution not defense. “Beyond a reasonable doubt.”
I'm not understanding your confusion. The points of the case are this

1) that Chauvin killed George by kneeling on his neck. That is what the autopsy says
2) that when chauvin did this, he had no defensible reason for doing this. He wasn't trained to do that. He wasn't permitted to do that. This has been testified to by his superiors
3) the fact that Chauvin killed him and the fact that he was engaging in excessive force when he did it, is murder. 

Which, if any, of those points are you saying isn't true?
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@ILikePie5
Chauvin likely gets acquitted or there’s a hung jury

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@Greyparrot
That is correct. Nowhere in the press release is the word murder found.
of course not. No medical examiner would ever say that. The critical point from the autopsy is that the determination was that Chauvin killed George. And that is what they determined. 

The difference between a Prosecutor and a Medical Examiner is that only one must legally provide evidence for his conclusions. Can you guess which one that is?
You aren't really making any sense. The medical examiner determines cause of death (which was homicide). That autopsy is then evidence in the trial which will be used by the prosecutor. 

Since every medical professional involved appears to agree that Chauvin killed George, the defense needs to be able to provide some sort of convincing argument that it was something else. But there is no evidence that it was something else. 
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@Greyparrot
Ya I saw Nelson destroying the State Witnesses. It was pretty funny how they had to backtrack the fact that Chauvin was authorized to use even more force in the form of a taser but he chose not to. Talk about lack of intent
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@Greyparrot
This is why Chauvin will be found guilty of murder. As soon as Floyd said he couldn't breathe, Chauvin should have gotten off his neck. Chauvin had a taser if Floyd tried to get up. This is what the police did in the Eric Garner case and why they weren't charged with murder.
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@FLRW
This is why Chauvin will be found guilty of murder. As soon as Floyd said he couldn't breathe, Chauvin should have gotten off his neck. Chauvin had a taser if Floyd tried to get up. This is what the police did in the Eric Garner case and why they weren't charged with murder.
He chose to use less force than required according to the prosecution's own witness. Murder is now off the table.
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@Greyparrot
@ILikePie5
Talk about lack of intent
Completely irrelevant. 


 Murder is now off the table.

100% wrong. 



Ya'll are literally making up the most incorrect and uninformed analysis as you go along with NO SHAME lol. I'm almost impressed. 
Danielle
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@Greyparrot
@ILikePie5
First of all, whether or not Derek Chauvin had intent to kill when he was called to the scene or before he kneeled on Floyd's neck is irrelevant. I have no idea why you think it is relevant, but feel free to explain.

To prove second degree murder, the prosecution has to prove that Chauvin recklessly endangered George Floyd's life knowing that his conduct could have killed him. So they don't have to prove intent; they only have to prove that a reasonable person would have known that kneeling on someone's neck that was prone on the ground for a certain length of time, with a knee (or multiple knees) pressed into them could be fatal. Derek Chauvin's police chief, lieutenant, and every single other colleague that was called to the stand all testified that Derek Chauvin would have indeed known that was inappropriate, and contrary to both the police policy and police training that Chauvin received.

The policy is clear: an officer may use kneeling techniques and body weight to gain compliance if someone is resisting arrest, and yes may even use a taser or pepper spray to gain compliance. However once someone is cuffed, you are not allowed to continue kneeling; you have to put the suspect on their side. It is a clear-cut policy, so the defense has no shot in saying the amount of force Chauvin used was correct and appropriate. The ONLY way they can win is by convincing at least one single juror that George Floyd died solely from a drug overdose.

Cops, including Chauvin, receive training that instructs on the dangers of lying someone in the prone position. The training says that once you handcuff someone and they are prone, you have to immediately turn them on side into recovery position. The reason you must do this is because even if you do not put body weight on the person, their body's natural reaction from being in that position could put them into shock and cause death regardless of what else is going on. Despite Greyparrot insisting it doesn't matter that Chauvin broke police protocols, it absolutely does matter because it proves he acted in a way that he was trained could cause serious bodily harm if not fatal injury. That is what matters in proving second degree murder, the highest charge against Chauvin (and the only one that's really relevant). 

And tbh I'm kinda shocked ya'll are so confident that he will walk. The only reason I worry he will is that is people are such cucks for cops. But your interpretation of what's happening is just so ridiculously bad and off base lol. Saying Nelson "destroyed" state witnesses? What the hell are you even talking about? All he had the cop admit to is that Chauvin didn't use more force than he did, which is completely irrelevant because no one is claiming otherwise. 

The first question is whether Derek Chauvin acted wrongfully, i.e. inconsistent with police training, standard practice, and decent humanity. The prosecution has proven that to be true. The second question is whether Chauvin or a reasonable person would have known that his behavior could potentially fatally injure this person. In the same fashion (policy explanations) the prosecution has proven that to be true. The third question is causation, whether or not Chauvin's behavior DID cause fatal injury. That is the only thing the defense can dispute at this point, i.e. saying Chauvin did nothing wrong and Floyd would have died of a drug overdose even if Chauvin hadn't done what he did.

The defense has to convince the jury that Floyd would have died all on his own. The fact that Floyd was on drugs and had coronavirus (thereby making him even more susceptible to things like cardiac arrest or asphyxiation) was not only known by all the officers, which isn't a good look for the amount of force they used on him against all their training for 9+ minutes, but also cannot be used as a defense for Chauvin per the eggshell plaintiff doctrine. So I really don't see how Chauvin gets off here but stranger things have happened. 

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@FLRW
This is why Chauvin will be found guilty of murder. As soon as Floyd said he couldn't breathe, Chauvin should have gotten off his neck. Chauvin had a taser if Floyd tried to get up. This is what the police did in the Eric Garner case and why they weren't charged with murder.
Police officers including the state’s own witnesses testified that people who resist arrest frequently feign physical conditions to avoid arrest and the fact that handcuffed suspects can still be dangerous.
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@Danielle
How much you wanna bet he walks or there’s a hung jury?