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@Tarik
I do not CHOOSE what I care about.
Necessary evils
Posts
Total:
691
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@secularmerlin
Your answer is circular unless you have a different understanding of natural selection then I but I understand natural selection as survival, so when you say natural selection as an answer I hear it as I care about my survival because of survival, it’s all circular.
I do not CHOOSE what I care about.
Even if that is true, you do choose what you act on and you choose to act in a way that prolongs your survival as opposed to shortening it.
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@Tarik
Well emotions ate not rational. You are after all asking me why I have a particular emotion.
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@secularmerlin
So you admit that caring isn’t rational?
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@Tarik
Even if that is true, you do choose what you act on
What does this even mean? I can only act on what is and I do not choose what is. What is simply... IS.
you choose to act in a way that prolongs your survival as opposed to shortening it.
That would seem to be indistinguishable from being compelled by biology driven by natural selection. Do you have some way of determining the difference between "choosing" to live and being driven to survive by your instincts?
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@secularmerlin
So you admit that caring isn’t rational?
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@Tarik
So you admit that caring isn’t rational?
It is perfectly rational to expect people to care but caring is an emotion and emotions cannot be rational. Moral intuition is also an emotion and is also not at its core rational though it is rational to expect people to have moral intuition. There is behavior that makes us uncomfortable (a feeling) and it tends to coincide with behavior that would harm us either individually or as a species.
Think about it and be honest with yourself if not me don't you determine what is immoral by how uncomfortable it makes you? Isn't it upsetting when someone steals or cheats and gets away with it? What is rational about that?
The question at that point is what do we agree makes us uncomfortable and how can we best minimize those behaviors in ourselves and others. This is entirely utility based. We should not cheat one another because life is better and easier if you can depend on your neighbors.
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@secularmerlin
You admitting that your not rational is all I needed to hear. Deuces ✌🏾.
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@Tarik
We are not rational. We are humans instead.
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@secularmerlin
I don’t see the point of you continuing to stress the same argument but I agree you aren’t rational.
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@Tarik
Social conditioning.
Though aside from this:
How much of an influence technological conditioning has, and will have in the future, must also be considered.
As I continue to state, it really is all about the acquisition, storage and utilisation of data.
Not to be confused with inherent information, responsible for basic function......Whereby social cooperation is vital for survival.
Though as a species we have somewhat developed beyond this basic state... In other words, we are able to assume or develop notions such as morality and immorality.
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@Lemming
I wouldn't refer to Tarik as an obtuse wall.
Like us all, Tarik has been conditioned to think in a certain way.....I think that it is good that they wish to discuss issues which bother them.
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@zedvictor4
Well, my statement 'could be referring to his 'arguments as an obtuse wall.
Myself I don't actually remember exactly 'which I was referring to.
I agree that referring to an individual or their arguments as an obtuse wall are not a constructive manner to address arguments or individuals.
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@Lemming
Employing a metaphorical wall.....I would suggest that the foundations of Tarik's arguments were well constructed.
That is to say, that he was formerly taught to accept, without question.
But do you think that his current questioning, is indicative of cracks appearing in his brickwork?
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@zedvictor4
The foundation may or may not have been well constructed, difficult to 'see people online.
I'm unsure of his education or character, a person can be well or poorly educated yet still hold strong beliefs.
I do not 'think his method of questioning is indicative of cracks in his belief system.
I 'think his method of questioning is indicative of his preferred method of approaching this topic in online forums.
I ''think he is either well intentioned or a troll, but I think well intentioned is more likely.
Socrates method of discussion often get's irritating after a while, to some feels 'more just a person asking why.
I 'think he tries to lead other people's thoughts by his questions, to what 'he views as the correct answers.
In 'my eyes Tarik says too little for others to grasp his meaning well, 'feels needlessly inscrutable.
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@Tarik
Neither of us is rational. What does that have to do with any of our arguments?
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@Tarik
Poor irrational Tarrik. Giving himself arguments for why he doesn't have to listen rather than engaging any arguments.
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@zedvictor4
Social conditioning.
Is that the case for you, because at some point you have to have a mind of your own regarding what information your going to accept and/or decline, especially since you have access to all different kinds of information around you whichever one you listen to is ultimately your choice.
That is to say, that he was formerly taught to accept, without question.
Kinda like your answer regarding social conditioning, huh.
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@secularmerlin
Neither of us is rational.
If a person that deems themself irrational thinks the same of me then I guess I’ve done my job, good day.
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@Tarik
If having emotions makes you irrational then we are both irrational.
If it doesn't then just having emotions doesn't mean I am.
Are we both irrational or are we both capable of being rational?
You can say either but you can't say both.
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@secularmerlin
Now your asking me? Sure I’ll answer, emotions are only logical if they’re grounded in logic, such as fear of going to hell.
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@Tarik
All I said is WE are not rational we are human. Humans are capable of sone rational thought but they are not rational. Not one hundred percent and we must always maintain vigilance of our irrational tendencies if we are to be at all rational.
I'm sorry if you read more into that statement than I actually meant or you were offended but it is not an untrue statement.
So which is it? Does being human mean we cannot have a rational discussion or not?
After all you also have emotions tied up in your moral opinions. You are uncomfortable with the fact that justice isn't perfected you are of the opinion that it should be.
I am sorry by the way that justice isn't perfect and really can't be and also that it is just a thing we made up. I know that distresses you.
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@Tarik
The fear of going to a place that probably doesn't exist for reasons you don't understand after you have no reason to expect to be experiencing anything is rational?we have very different notions of what is and is not rational I see.
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@secularmerlin
Well if it doesn’t exist, I guess the nihilists are the only ones that are rational.
People think all kinds of "irrational" things. Phobias and superstitions to things like hording and paranoia. Some may have a cause some may be mental illness and sometimes it's just the way someone thinks. Very few people escape some kind of thinking people find odd or weird or off. Calling it irrational implies it hurts the person or someone else which isn't always the case even with religion.
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@Tarik
What does nihilism have to do with a fictional place you are afraid of?
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Calling it irrational implies it hurts the person or someone else
Irrational =/= hurtful
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@secularmerlin
How do you know it’s fictional?
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@Tarik
The same way you know that bigfoot and the tooth fairy are fictional.
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@secularmerlin
Where do you recall me ever discussing Bigfoot and the tooth fairy with you?