Jesus Wasn't Dead When They Took Him Down From The Cross

That has nothing to do with the thread. But I find the bible a fascinating read and always have. I hope that answers your question.

It gets tedious having  to repeat ones stance on the bible every time I have question or an opinion and I will admit frustration sometimes does, but rarely, creeps in. Particularly when I am repeatedly told that any fault lies with me, that   I don't understand the scriptures or I am reading them wrong or have mistranslated them and many other ridiculous reasons for the theist not to have to explain away a biblical ambiguous anomaly. It is not hard to work out that some of the theisit here haven't read much- if any - of the scriptures  that they are so eager to defend.

Take those contradictions above; just a few of hundreds contained in the bible that fawning sycophantic theist deny even exist never mind try to explain.

Take the word Heaven: it is mentioned in the Bible over 550 times yet not a single resident theist here can explain what it is or where it is, yet the bible quite clearly states that it is occupied by some kind of beings of one sort or another and many christians believe a war once took place there and a devil was cast down from it?

 So where is heaven? what is heaven?  are you going to answer?

the Gospels are a perfect example of true spirituality, anything less is not adequate.

We have to discuss those contradictions and whether or not they actually matter in relevance to the soul.

Of course I'll answer, I have never not answered a forthcoming question. Heaven is an ACTUAL planet, it's most likely located in the higher part of the astral realm. There are several universes that exist beyond this one we perceive as humans. The heaven of the Bible is not the only heaven. There are many.

You obviously dislike Christianity and the scriptures involved. 

Either that or you aren't qualified to interpret them in a legit way because you do  not apply spiritual things to yourself?

Gospels mention"some" people murmured amongst themselves that Jesus was out of his mind.

 you interpret that as everyone believing Jesus was crazy. 

We have to discuss those contradictions and whether or not they actually matter in relevance to the soul.

Heaven is an ACTUAL planet,

 " I have made no secret of the fact that it is the scriptures that I have a problem with. Do you see what I did there AGAIN? I have had to explain my stance for the billionth time.This is what I get annoyed about. I have no problem with Christians or Christianity and have never believed I could change their beliefs. I wouldn’t bother trying and that is not my intention. I feel sorry for those Christians Who have believed the stories presented as they are in the New Testament. So for the billionth a 2 times that is where I stand on theist and the scriptures"

"No it is “that”. But I notice you too have added remarks on my “qualifications” to read and “interpret”these anomalous, ambiguous half stories, that make up these extremely unreliable scriptures.  I have an opinions and I have questions. Nothing qualifies you any more than me to interpret these stories any better or worse."

 

" I have presented verses from many bibles concerning Jesus’ state of mind. You have presented nothing that states any such thing as you claim as “some people” or “people murmuring”. But even if you could, this again would show the inconsistencies that lay within these scriptures. "

"No I have PRESENTED what is written.  He may have or may not have been “crazy”. His mother, the Holy Blessed among All Women Mother Of God and Jesus’ siblings seemed to agree with their mother that he had lost his mind. THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING"

"Well that would be up to you what the “relevance “  of  these blatant contradictions actually means to you. But “relevance to the soul”  is just swerving the issue. First you have to admit they are there and that they are in fact contradictions.

 But the “relevance” to me shows,  NO, proves , that the scriptures are unreliable and cannot be taken on face value."

"The Gospel of Judas say similar but this lost gospel calls it a realm named Barbelo, but I would settle on "planet" because the ancient Sumerians relate something similar."

"But again the problem we have here is that old Christian adage “ if it ain’t in the bible it ain’t true.  And you infer THAT I ! have misread and misinterpreted AND misrepresented and that I  don’t know my arse from elbow."

"I am better read than you give me credit for my friend and and I can assure you;  these ancient biblical scriptures I am well read in. "

"Try selling " Jesus was from another ACTUAL planet"  to Mopac or Ethang5, Mopac keeps inferring that "Jesus is an alien"."

It is a planet within a realm just like the earth in our universe, did you think heaven was in the clouds lol?? it is a planet that exists outside the physical universe, likely in the upper region of the lower half of the grand division of creation. It's not something you could find in our own universe, but within the multi-verses what I call the God-worlds.

The Bible was not claiming Jesus was out of His mind,

did you think heaven was in the clouds lol??

 but it's your problem not mine so don't get that twisted.

I don't rely on the Bible being a perfect piece of work and so imperfections within stories and accounts have no relevance to me personally or my spiritual development. 

Does that make sense? 

I take from it [the bible] what is useful and that is the only things that matter anyways. 

 

The Bible was not claiming Jesus was out of His mind.

has your mother ever told you that you were out of your mind?

Jesus' mother was there with Him until the end, she supported His cause and mission.

what actually is relevant to the individual.

So, if you can produce some blatant contradictions regarding what applies to the SELF,

I don't get"all" my information squarely from the Bible or Jewish scriptures

But do you understand them.

you can always be a skeptic but at some point you will have to make a stand.

Why don't you make some of these formal debate challenges?

You keep making all these outlandish claims in thread after thread. 

I.e., Jesus Wasn't Dead When They Took Him Down From The Cross

The problem with the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

One God? It is simply Not True

Lazarus. The "raising".

Why was the NT Zacharias "struck dumb"?

Why don't you make some of these formal debate challenges?

 I am quite content debating and discussing my opinions right here in the open. Why should that bother you .

You keep making all these outlandish claims in thread after thread. 

I.e., Jesus Wasn't Dead When They Took Him Down From The Cross

Yes and?  I have not seen nor read anything to prove otherwise.

The problem with the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

There are as I have shown.

One God? It is simply Not True

It isn't true is it. the bible makes that undeniably clear.

Lazarus. The "raising".

Yes, and? Lazerus wasn't dead either and you cannot prove otherwise. I have shown it to be a symbolic ritualistic "raising" to a higher status and you don't like that .

Why was the NT Zacharias "struck dumb"?

Yes and?

philosophy like this without being deeply influenced by others.

philosophy like this without being deeply influenced by others.

Atheism has no such need. Your fantasy world on the other hand is desperately in need of being influenced by others ie indoctrination.

Reality stands on it's own. God belief is contingent on indoctrination.

"Christians, in the last 80 years or so, have only been seeing things as bits and pieces which have gradually begun to trouble them and others, instead of understanding that they are the natural outcome of a change from a Christian World View to a Humanistic one; things such as

overpermissiveness , pornography, the problem of the public schools, the breakdown of the family, abortion, infanticide (the killing of newborn babies), increased emphasis upon the euthanasia of the old and many, many other things...

I want to say to you, those of you who are Christians or even if you are not a Christian and you are troubled about the direction that our society is going in, that we must not concentrate merely on the bits and pieces. But we must understand that all of these dilemmas come on the basis of moving from the Judeo-Christian world view -- that the final reality is an infinite creator God -- over into this other reality which is that the final reality is only energy or material in some mixture or form which has existed forever and which has taken its present shape by pure chance.
The word Humanism should be carefully defined....It gives no value system. It gives no basis for law, and therefore, in this case, man must be the measure of all things. So, Humanism properly defined, in contrast, let us say, to the humanities or humanitarianism, (which is something entirely different and which Christians should be in favor of) being the measure of all things, comes naturally, mathematically, inevitably, certainly. If indeed the final reality is silent about these values, then man must generate them from himself.
So, Humanism is the absolute certain result, if we choose this other final reality and say that is what it is. You must realize that when we speak of man being the measure of all things under the Humanist label, the first thing is that man has only knowledge from himself. That he, being finite, limited, very faulty in his observation of many things, yet nevertheless, has no possible source of knowledge except what man, beginning from himself, can find out from his own observation. Specifically, in this view, there is no place for any knowledge from God.
But it is not only that man must start from himself in the area of knowledge and learning, but any value system must come arbitrarily from man himself by arbitrary choice. More frightening still, in our country, at our own moment of history, is the fact that any basis of law then becomes arbitrary -- merely certain people making decisions as to what is for the good of society at the given moment.
Now this is the real reason for the breakdown in morals in our country. It's the real reason for the breakdown in values in our country, and it is the reason that our Supreme Court now functions so thoroughly upon the fact of arbitrary law. They have no basis for law that is fixed, therefore, like the young person who decides to live hedonistically upon their own chosen arbitrary values, society is now doing the same thing legally. Certain few people come together and decide what they arbitrarily believe is for the good of society at the given moment, and that becomes law.

"The world view that the final reality is only material or energy shaped by pure chance, inevitably, (that's the next word I would bring to you ) mathematically -- with mathematical certainty -- brings forth all these other results which are in our country and in our society which have led to the breakdown in the country -- in society -- and which are its present sorrows. So, if you hold this other world view
, you must realize that it is inevitable that we will come to the very sorrows of relativity and all these other things that are so represented in our country at this moment of history.It should be noticed that this new dominant world view is a view which is exactly opposite from that of the founding fathers of this country. Now, not all the founding fathers were individually, personally, Christians. That certainly is true. But, nevertheless, they founded the country on the base that there is a God who is the Creator (now I come to the next central phrase) who gave the inalienable rights.
We must understand something very thoroughly. If society -- if the state gives the rights, it can take them away -- they're not inalienable. If the states give the rights, they can change them and manipulate them. But this was not the view of the founding fathers of this country. They believed, although not all of them were individual Christians, that there was a Creator and that this Creator gave the inalienable rights -- this upon which our country was founded and which has given us the freedoms which we still have -- even the freedoms which are being used now to destroy the freedoms.
The reason that these freedoms were there is because they believed there was somebody who gave the inalienable rights. But if we have the view that the final reality is material or energy which has existed forever in some form, we must understand that this view never, never, never would have given the rights which we now know and which, unhappily, I say to you (those of you who are Christians) that too often you take all too much for granted. You forget that the freedoms which we have in northern Europe after the Reformation (and the United States is an extension of that, as would be Australia or Canada, New Zealand, etc.) are absolutely unique in the world.
Occasionally, some of you who have gone to universities have been taught that these freedoms are rooted in the Greek city-states. That is not the truth. All you have to do is read Plato's Republic and you understand that the Greek city-states never had any concept of the freedoms that we have. Go back into history. The freedoms which we have (the form / freedom balance of government) are unique in history and they are also unique in the world at this day."

Who the  _  _ _ _ is Francis Schaeffer and what difference does he make to the shape of an egg?

Because there is no accountability for what you are saying. 

 Who are you reading?

One does not develop a philosophy like this without being deeply influenced by others.

You created the problem that can be reconciled when properly understood. 

No, it does not. You Read into the Bible what you want it to say.

Your conclusions are the and. Pick One and we can have a formal debate over it.

 Let's see what others think of your truth claims.

Because there is no accountability for what you are saying. 

 

 I can account for what I am saying. You just can’t seem to grasp the fact that my arguments are from the scriptures and my opinions are concerned with the scriptures. It is not me who has to account for anything. You either defend these scriptures against what I say about them or simply ignore me. That is your choice.

 

 Who are you reading? 

I am reading the scriptures. It is very rare I have to resort to outside sources to support my opinions and or theories. You see the bible is so flawed it is easy to find faults within them when looked at closely with a keen and sharp eye.

One does not develop a philosophy like this without being deeply influenced by others.

That is an opinion. I Am not “influenced” by anyone. The scriptures are full of faults and contradictions. They don’t stand up to close scrutiny. This is a fact.

You created the problem that can be reconciled when properly understood. 

 

Nope. That is a lie. The Problem with the Tree Of Knowledge of Good and Evil story is that it simply isn’t true as it is presented to us in the scriptures. It is presented as a fairy tale with talking snakes, life giving trees and flaming swords and a god who is all singing all dancing but who manages lose his creation among the bushes and trees  and has to shout out to his creation “ where are you” because he couldn’t find him

....

 

No, it does not. You Read into the Bible what you want it to say.

Again that is simply a lie. The bible is clear that there are more than one god and here are just a few of the examples so stop telling lies.

 In Genesis 1:26 we read, "Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness'"(emphasis added). Genesis 3:22 adds, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil" (emphasis added).

Besides,   what had this particular god to be jealous about if he was the only god?

Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Exodus 20:3

Your conclusions are the and. Pick One and we can have a formal debate over it. 

Here is short list of my threads.  You pick one and we can carry on from where it/they were left off. But I suggest you read all of the thread before posting as I won’t be repeating anything I have already said on the thread you choose.

 Let's see what others think of your truth claims.

  I have said. I am quite content to air my thoughts and opinions right here thank you. If you cannot cope with that, that's your problem, not mine. People here can see quite clearly what I have to say and they can add their opinions of “what they think” at any time they choose. They or you either rebut my claim and or opinion with evidence or simply don't engage. I don't care either way.

But let me remind you again. This is a - religion - forum , 

it is not a -  religious -  forum for the religious only.

otherwise there is no accountability for you spewing forth these comments.

Even if I grant you what you said, you are reading INTO the Scriptures things they do not say or even infer. 

Your fault finding comes from an ignorance of the deeper meaning,

 the spiritual meaning that goes over your head. 

What you call contradictions hold reasonable, logical answers.

You avoided confronting the issue in DDO by formally debating it.

The problem with forum threads is that you are never held to the unreasonableness of your claims. 

You are never held accountable for what you say.

Thus, it is a waste of time engaging in a thread,

 but a debate is a different story. 

If this is the subject you choose to debate do it so formally and I will be glad to debate it with you.  .

What I object to is that you are not being held accountable for what you say.

a formal debate is the only way to get feedback for who has the more reasonable view of Scripture. 

Yes even Pilate was amazed at how quick Jesus had “died”.  Mark 15:44

Could the disciples simply have been wrong or mores the case duped into believing Jesus Was dead?  They had got it wrong on another occasion when they were convinced Paul was dead but wasn’t. Acts 14 

 

And there's not a mention of any of them being present at the crucifixion so how would they know either way. 

 

Why then,did Jesus die so quickly on the cross? 

Why did they spear his side if he was dead?

Did Jesus even predict that he would be dead for three days?

otherwise there is no accountability for you spewing forth these comments.

 Opinion again. I will take it you don’t want to discuss these threads and or defend them against my opinions and or theories.I don’t care. I have said anyone here can judge what I have to say right here in the open. 

What you do is called selective citing. You ISOLATE verses out of context.

rather than gleaning what the true meaning is.

So you ignore the very next verse that explains to you the expert testimony of the centurion. 

So Pilate had the testimony of the centurion who would know whether Jesus was dead. What does"this" refer to in the context?

The Roman's had practiced crucifixion for over a hundred years before Christ, as testified to by Josephus. He records specific incidents of crucifixion in the following link provided for those who wish to check out his testimony:

Yes, He did. [ say he would be dead]

 

John 2:18-22

18 The Jews then said to Him,“What sign do You show us as your authority for doing these things?” 19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple,and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews Then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.