AFSFSM

Author: secularmerlin

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#211
3RU7AL
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@Tarik
Every human action sprouts from SURVIVAL INSTINCT.
That’s simply not true, take the action of donating to charity for example that has no bearing on your survival (if anything it makes you less likely to survive, especially if you donate your whole livelihood away).
Please provide an example of someone dying because they voluntarily donated to charity.
#212
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@Tarik
Like what SPECIFICALLY?
Perhaps when you agreed to a definition of "selfish" (that included the term "motive") and then insisted that any discussion of "motive" was "off-topic".
#213
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@3RU7AL
(that included the term "motive")
That’s because the discussion wasn’t in regards to every facet of the definition.
#214
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@secularmerlin
Like look for yourself.
Don’t send me on some random goose chase leading to nowhere, if your gonna accuse me of stuff then support it otherwise it’s nothing more than a lie and apparently you found the time to “bother” to lie on my name so save me the “why bother” b.s.
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#215
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@Tarik
Don’t send me on some random goose chase leading to nowhere,
I won't if you don't. 
#216
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@secularmerlin
So me telling you to support your claims is the equivalence to me sending you on a random goose chase leading to nowhere? Glad we can agree on that.

#217
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@Tarik
(that included the term "motive")
That’s because the discussion wasn’t in regards to every facet of the definition.
Full exploration of the definition on the table is PREREQUISITE to building a shared framework that will make (communication of) agreement (or specific disagreement) possible.
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#218
secularmerlin
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@Tarik
So me telling you to support your claims is the equivalence to me sending you on a random goose chase leading to nowhere? 
It is when I've done so before with no new result. You do it this time if you care.
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#219
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@3RU7AL
Full exploration of the definition on the table is PREREQUISITE to building a shared framework that will make (communication of) agreement (or specific disagreement) possible.
Well stated.
#220
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@3RU7AL
Full exploration of the definition on the table is PREREQUISITE to building a shared framework that will make (communication of) agreement (or specific disagreement) possible.
...So? We did that already seculars the one that went against the grain and conflated two different terms that the definition specifically kept separate.
#221
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@secularmerlin
It is when I've done so before
No all you’ve done was tell lies and contradict yourself for example

How do you determine what an action is CHEIFLY concerned with?
It is because actions are not in and of themselves CHEIFLY concerned with anything.
...Contradiction at its finest 🥱

You see unlike you I actually support my claims 👏🏾 .
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#222
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@Tarik
Caring for and about others.
And what’s selfish about that?
This was the exact moment when you first falsely conflated my argument about MOTIVES with your discussion of actions. 

Actions themselves are not selfish or selfless. You did manage to sidetrack the conversation but it doesn't change my actual point it is just a tangential argument that you brought up in order to AVOID the actual conversation. 

Any point after this when I refer to an action as selfish or selfless was merely an attempt to address your tangential concerns so we could get back to the actual topic. 

IF you would rather sidetrack the conversation than have the conversation THEN conversation with you becomes impossible because of you.
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#223
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@Tarik
Caring for and about others.
And what’s selfish about that?
In retrospect my answer should have been that the motive is what is selfish about it.
#224
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@secularmerlin
... 🥱 I don’t know if your just slow or whatever the case may be but for the umpteenth time providing for someone isn’t a motive it’s an action and the action was in question not the motive.
#225
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@Tarik
providing for someone isn’t a motive
HOW you attempt to "provide for someone" specifically is an action.

Your INTENTION to "provide for someone" is your motive.
#226
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@Tarik
two different terms that the definition specifically kept separate.
The definition used one term to define the other term.
#227
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@3RU7AL
HOW you attempt to "provide for someone" specifically is an action.
I get that, I was simply asking in regards to this.
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#228
secularmerlin
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@Tarik
 I don’t know if your just slow or whatever the case may be but for the umpteenth time providing for someone isn’t a motive it’s an action and the action was in question not the motive.
My argument recommends a motive (providing just wanting to care for and about others is not enough motivation for any given human). We are not having the same conversation. Perhaps you would care to change that?
#229
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@secularmerlin
Your argument included providing for someone else (which is an action not a motive BTW).
#230
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@Tarik
HOW you attempt to "provide for someone" specifically is an action.
I get that, I was simply asking in regards to this.
(IFF) you want to bifurcate ACTION and MOTIVE (THEN) you need to speak about SPECIFIC (motiveless) actions.

For example,

(IFF) you give a dollar to a homeless person (THEN) you are (EITHER) trying to help them (AND/OR) trying to make yourself feel good 

Someone watching you give a dollar to a homeless person will be unable to detect your "chief" motivation.
#231
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@3RU7AL
(IFF) you want to bifurcate ACTION and MOTIVE (THEN) you need to speak about SPECIFIC (motiveless) actions.
(OR) I can simply ask in regards to the action alone (which I did).
#232
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@Tarik
(OR) I can simply ask in regards to the action alone (which I did).
Which action did you use as an example?
#233
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@3RU7AL
Well the ACTION HE USED is providing for someone else, I think it’s reasonable to question the selfishness in that ACTION wouldn’t you?
#234
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@Tarik
 "providing for someone else" is not itself an action.

 "providing for someone else" is in-fact a motive.

giving someone a dollar is an action.

giving someone a dollar is not a motive.
#235
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@3RU7AL
...But giving someone a dollar is providing for someone else.

#236
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@Tarik
...But giving someone a dollar is providing for someone else.
It is specifically providing a dollar for someone else.

The phrase "providing for someone" is generally understood to be an ongoing process of providing for someone's livelihood and general wellbeing.
#237
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@3RU7AL
is generally understood
Don’t speak for the general public, you aren’t the general public.
#238
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@Tarik
provide for (someone or something)

1. To supply or provide payment for the basic needs of someone or something.The hardest part of being unemployed was knowing that I couldn't provide for my family.The local council has promised to provide for low-income families in its upcoming budget. [**]

In other words, NOT a one-time gift.
#239
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@3RU7AL
Last time I checked a dollar was a form of payment.
#240
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@Tarik
Last time I checked a dollar was a form of payment.
Still not a motive.