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@Stephen
I DID take on your question, i dont know what you are talking about now?
God’s Own Unwillingness to Show “proof” of His Existence.
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104
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@zedvictor4
Catholicism is the one true faith, theres plently of evidence and general reasoning on my side
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@secularmerlin
IF faith is sufficient to lead to truth and IF Catholicism is the truth that faith leads to THEN we would not expect faith to lead to other religious doctrines.
all other religions are wrong, faith does lead to the truth and the truth IS catholicism
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@Dr.Franklin
all other religions are wrong[1], faith does lead to the truth and the truth IS catholicism[2]
[1] bald assertion. Ad hominem attacks on uninvolved third parties.
[2] bald assertion. Circular reasoning.
I remain unconvinced of the logical strength of your conclusions and I find your methodology inconsistent.
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@secularmerlin
it's not supposed to be some philosophical argument. It is just just a statement, sure it violates all of these "fallacies" so what. I'm just saying a fact
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@Dr.Franklin
Please supply your most preferred definition of the word fact as used in this context.
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@secularmerlin
a thing that is known or proved to be true.
-oxford
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@Dr.Franklin
Please define Catholicism.
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@Dr.Franklin
May as well define truth too
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@Dr.Franklin
For sure Doc....The same evidence and reasoning that all theistic offshoots of Middle Eastern folklore would attest to.
"One true" is just your conditioned bias.
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@Dr.Franklin
I DID take on your question,
No Doc. You haven't. Is all you have done is ask a question of your own and in dismissive tones, HERE>>> Dr.Franklin wrote: " why should he reach out to you"? here>> #27 .
You haven't explained why Jesus wouldn't appear to disbelievers today when he had done so to one of his own disbelieving apostles who he had "blessed" for not believing Jesus had risen from the "dead"?. SEE>>>John20:29
You haven't explained why Jesus don't appear today to the devout and believing mother praying and begging on her knees to Jesus for the life of her child when he had done so to a person that had made it his life's mission to hunt down and murder members of Jesus' flock including women?
SEE>>>Acts 22: 4 “I worked hard and killed men and women who believed as I believe today. I put them in chains and sent them to prison.
SEE>>>Acts 8:1-3 On that day a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. Godly men buried Stephen and mourned deeply for him. But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.
You haven't explained how it is that some people are reprimanded for being of "little faith" while others are not. SEE>>>
Jesus' response to The apostles "worrying" about tomorrow :
Matthew 6:30: “ O ye of little faith?”
Jesus' response to The apostles "worrying" that they may lose their lives in a storm:
Matthew 8:26: “ O ye of little faith"?
Jesus' response to The apostles "worrying" that they hadn't any bread:
”Matthew 16:8: “ O ye of little faith",
Luke repeats Matthew 6:30 where the apostles are " "worrying" about tomorrow:
”Luke 12:28: “O ye of little faith?”
You haven't explained why is it that a person can be struck dumb for doubting and another is "blessed" for doubting as in the case of Zechariah. SEE >>> Luke 1:20
Just say you don't know Doc (if you don't) then go away and chew on those very poignant questions that you appear to keep avoiding and trying to bury.
And didn't Thomas "tempt the lord" when he demanded evidence of Jesus' resurrection from Jesus himself?
Why isn't there even a hint of a warning here about tempting the lord,!?
Why do "Y’all ignore" :
"Do not put the LORD your God to the test as you did at Massah". Deuteronomy 6:16 ?
i dont know what you are talking about now?
You do Doc you just want to keep avoiding and burying the questions.
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@Stephen
You haven't explained why Jesus wouldn't appear to disbelievers today when he had done so to one of his own disbelieving apostles who he had "blessed" for not believing Jesus had risen from the "dead"?. SEE>>>John20:29
I did, the disbelievers today show no effort to reach God, hence God will not reach out to them
You haven't explained why Jesus don't appear today to the devout and believing mother praying and begging on her knees to Jesus for the life of her child when he had done so to a person that had made it his life's mission to hunt down and murder members of Jesus' flock including women?
this makes no sense for a number of reasons
your argument is all over the place, all you do is take scripture and add objections that dont really matter and can be explained by the easiest theology
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@zedvictor4
Christianity is true and the Catholic Church is the one church established by Jesus, therefore the Catholic Church is true
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@Dr.Franklin
Well..... That's a very briefly condensed version of events relating to the bible tales....And even in context, not strictly true.
And in the wider context of the development of popular Abrahamic theism, also something of an exaggeration.
Nonetheless, at the end of the day....Belief is only what it is......And if that is what floats your boat Doc... Then enjoy the bread and drink the wine, sniff the incense and sing your heart out.
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@Dr.Franklin
You haven't explained why Jesus wouldn't appear to disbelievers today when he had done so to one of his own disbelieving apostles who he had "blessed" for not believing Jesus had risen from the "dead"?. SEE>>>John20:29I did, the disbelievers today show no effort to reach God, hence God will not reach out to them.
"disbelievers today" BULLSHIT!
Was this a perquisite to Thomas?. Thomas , he that had witnessed the raising of Lazarus from the dead, and then point blank refused to believe Jesus was raised from the dead with the caveat "UNLESS".!? He appeared to him didn't he? THOMAS DISBELIVED didn't he?!!
You haven't explained why Jesus don't appear today to the devout and believing mother praying and begging on her knees to Jesus for the life of her child when he had done so to a person that had made it his life's mission to hunt down and murder members of Jesus' flock including women?this makes no sense for a number of reasons your argument is all over the place, all you do is take scripture and add objections that dont really matter and can be explained by the easiest theology.
Maybe that is because you don't understand my question.
Let me put it as plain as I can for you.
Why can Jesus not do the same for unbelievers today and show proof of his existence?
BECAUSE!!!
Paul admits that he made it his life's mission to hunt down and kill and persecuted Christians as heretics . Acts 22: 4 and here Acts 8:1-3. PAUL didn't believe did he? YET Jesus, uninvited, and without even being asked by Paul, came back to earth after the accession and made an appearance to Paul .
So stop pretending that you cannot see the obvious point being made.
Jesus appeared and offered proof to a disbelieving Thomas and not once did he reprimand Thomas for being "of little faith" as he had done others that had doubted and disbelieved. Here Matthew 6:30: here Matthew 8:26: here Matthew 16:8: . And neither did Jesus strike Thomas dumb for disbelieving as had Zechariah. Luke 1:20
Play as dumb as you like Doc, but the FACT is, according to the bible, Jesus appeared to people that had doubted and disbelieved him, yet won't afford the same to even a BELIEVING mother begging and praying on here knees for the life of her sick child.
all you do is take scripture and add objections that dont really matter
I have asked you how is it that god is willing to appear to some disbelievers and not others or even those that do believe in him?
AND you don't know do you?
that dont really matter
It may not "matter" to you Doc, but I am sure that it matters to many a disbelieving and believing mother kneeling and praying to Jesus at her terminally sick child's bedside.
You simply cannot square the actions of your god , can you. You accuse me of being "all over the place" while ignoring the erratic and contradictive nature of your own god, Jesus.
Go away Doc. You have run out of excuses.
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@Dr.Franklin
Catholicism is the one true faith, theres plently of evidence and general reasoning on my side
Well, it's certainly the most popular flavor of Christianity.
Do you believe all the protestants are going to hell?
If you believe in God , you join a religious group.
Well it appears to me that way.
The numbers must be mind boggling.
That's the number of people that "believe" in a god thing are in a religious group.
Thus begs the question.
What came first ?
1 .. (Joining a religious group ) then ( Believing in a god thing )
orrrrrrrrrrrr
2 .. ( A belief in a god thing ) then ( joining a group )
Andddddd.
Try picturing someone ummmmmm. Coming to believing , ( ' Hey maybe a god type thing did make us ' )
Then because of this, going out and joining a religious group.
IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT GOD EXISTING OR NOT EXISTING. Tis the same thing.
It's ALLLLLLLLL about being in a religious groups.
Sooooooooooooo we all talk about God being real or ummmmmm , not real. While things called " groups " sits in the corner starting shlt. Snickering.
I suspect someone or someones could make like a FALSE religious group up and benifit from it.
You know what I mean?
Someone's could make a whole lot of stuff up that they themselves don't truly at all believe in , in umm .
In hope of a gain of some sorts.
They could.
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@3RU7AL
no, i don't believe protestants go to hell just because their protestants, I do believe that only the Catholic Church is correct
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@Stephen
"disbelievers today" BULLSHIT!Was this a perquisite to Thomas?. Thomas , he that had witnessed the raising of Lazarus from the dead, and then point blank refused to believe Jesus was raised from the dead with the caveat "UNLESS".!? He appeared to him didn't he? THOMAS DISBELIVED didn't he?!!
Yes, Thomas did disbelieve but he was of high importance AND Jesus appeared to OTHER apostles as well who were with Thomas.
Atheists today aren't the Apostles, again-why would Jesus reach out if atheists make no effort to know Jesus
Why can Jesus not do the same for unbelievers today and show proof of his existence?
I literally answered this already, atheists make ZERO effort to know Jesus and people like Paul were of high significance in the Bible, no atheist can compare to the Apostles
I have asked you how is it that god is willing to appear to some disbelievers and not others or even those that do believe in him?AND you don't know do you?
My point still stands- all you do is take a scripture you find, make some connection to atheism and then make the worst objections.
It may not "matter" to you Doc, but I am sure that it matters to many a disbelieving and believing mother kneeling and praying to Jesus at her terminally sick child's bedside.You simply cannot square the actions of your god , can you. You accuse me of being "all over the place" while ignoring the erratic and contradictive nature of your own god, Jesus.Go away Doc. You have run out of excuses.
Are you aware of the concept of Divine Hiddenness?
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@zedvictor4
your point is...
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@Dr.Franklin
We all have different hobbies.
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@Dr.Franklin
"disbelievers today" BULLSHIT!Was this a perquisite to Thomas?. Thomas , he that had witnessed the raising of Lazarus from the dead, and then point blank refused to believe Jesus was raised from the dead with the caveat "UNLESS".!? He appeared to him didn't he? THOMAS DISBELIVED didn't he?!!Yes, Thomas did disbelieve but he was of high importance AND Jesus appeared to OTHER apostles as well who were with Thomas.
So then why did he appear to a disbeliever , one that should have known better and not appear to believers and disbelievers today? Why no reprimand of Thomas for being "of little faith"? Yes Jesus appeared to others apostles but did they Demand proof of his resurrection before he showed himself to them? NO they hadn't had they.
Thomas did disbelieve but he was of high importance
Stop it , Doc. Thomas was the worst kind of disbeliever. He had witnessed the resurrection of Lazarus performed by Jesus yet didn't believe that his own lord was resurrected after being directly and specifically told by Jesus that he would rise after three days. And he wasn't punished or reprimanded.
tell me:
Why was Thomas allowed to tempt the lord when it is strictly forbidden? Or have you conveniently forgotten what Jesus himself said on the matter of tempting the Lord>>>
"Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"Matthew 4:7 ? As does Deuteronomy 6:16.
Why was Zechariah struck dumb for disbelieving and not Thomas? Luke 1:20
Why can Jesus not do the same for unbelievers today and show proof of his existence?I literally answered this already, atheists make ZERO effort to know Jesus and people like Paul were of high significance in the Bible,
But PAUL didn't believe, did he? And PAUL went further than simply not believing in Jesus or his followers that he considered heretics. He murdered them, yet Jesus made a personal appearance to, and held audience with, Paul after the accession, which means he came down and spoke with Paul the persecuting murder of members of Jesus own flock! And again there is no mention of "testing the lord" or of Paul being " of little faith", is there? And lets not forget what the scriptures have to say about disbelieving.
no atheist can compare to the Apostles
Like Thomas the disbeliever? And Peter the denier and liar.
I have asked you how is it that god is willing to appear to some disbelievers and not others or even those that do believe in him?AND you don't know do you?My point still stands- all you do is take a scripture you find, make some connection to atheism and then make the worst objections.
So,you don't know.
It may not "matter" to you Doc, but I am sure that it matters to many a disbelieving and believing mother kneeling and praying to Jesus at her terminally sick child's bedside.You simply cannot square the actions of your god , can you. You accuse me of being "all over the place" while ignoring the erratic and contradictive nature of your own god, Jesus.
Go away Doc. You have run out of excuses.
7 days later
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@Stephen
you just went in circles about Thomas. No atheist is an apostle
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@zedvictor4
ok,
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@Dr.Franklin
you just went in circles about Thomas. No atheist is an apostle
That would be you Doc.
I haven't called Thomas an "atheists". At the time of his doubting and asking for proof the bible calls Thomas a disciple and that is clearly noted. Thomas is the worst type of disbeliever, yet Jesus offered him proof after Thomas RFUSED to believe " UNLESS".
Paul was a murderer of members of Jesus own flock yet gave Paul a one on one personal audience. he appeared to Paul after he had acceded.
You cannot square these biblical facts , Doc. You ran out of excuses pages ago. As all of you believers do.
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@Stephen
I haven't called Thomas an "atheists". At the time of his doubting and asking for proof the bible calls Thomas a disciple and that is clearly noted. Thomas is the worst type of disbeliever, yet Jesus offered him proof after Thomas RFUSED to believe " UNLESS".
Well stated.
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@Dr.Franklin
no, i don't believe protestants go to hell just because their protestants, I do believe that only the Catholic Church is correct
If protestants go to heaven, then who cares if they join the "correct" church?
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@3RU7AL
because the theology is wrong
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@Stephen
already debunked