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@3RU7AL
I don’t prefer anything in regards to suicide.
Our most basic axioms
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1,302
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@Tarik
I don’t prefer anything in regards to suicide.
So, no theory, just "anti-theory"?
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@3RU7AL
In regards to this specific example? Yeah sure you can call it that.
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@Tarik
you have a "survival instinct" and "social instinct"So what about suicidal antisocial people?
They also have a "survival instinct" and "social instinct" otherwise they would never have lived up to the point where they lose their will to live.
Your "survival instinct" and "social instinct" can be suppressed, but not extinguished as long as you are alive.
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@3RU7AL
Even a hypothetical psychopath can't live without other humans.
They can up to a certain point (I assume you’re not preaching immortality).
What do you mean by validate? People do hold other beliefs.
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@secularmerlin
But there not valid.
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@Tarik
But there not valid.
Please be slightly more specific.
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@secularmerlin
@3RU7AL
Please be slightly more specific.
there must exist at least a third option.
Why? He wasn’t, third option such as?
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@Tarik
What exactly isn't valid and why? Also why should we care if it is "valid"?
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@Tarik
How do you validate a belief?
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@secularmerlin
Pardon me I jumped the gun here by assuming your mentality, what’s the third VALID option?
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@Tarik
there must exist at least a third option.
Like a hypothetical third option perhaps there might be someone who is NOT a believer in a GOD who still acts in a morally correct manner(?)
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@3RU7AL
Like a hypothetical third option perhaps there might be someone who is NOT a believer in a GOD who still acts in a morally correct manner(?)
Perhaps not.
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@Tarik
No. You brought up a specific point and I asked for clarification. Clarify before we continue.
What exactly isn't valid and why? Also why should we care if it is "valid"?
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@secularmerlin
What exactly isn't valid and why? Also why should we care if it is "valid"?
And I’m saying in order to answer that question you have to answer mine, what’s the third VALID option?
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@Tarik
Like a hypothetical third option perhaps there might be someone who is NOT a believer in a GOD who still acts in a morally correct manner(?)Perhaps not.
How can you know if someone is acting in a morally correct manner?
How do you detect someone's moral value?
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@3RU7AL
Why? You don’t believe in objective morality.
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@Tarik
what’s the third VALID option?
Seriously, if you're going to include the word "valid" as a qualifier, you really must explain what you mean by "valid", otherwise random casting for "valid" answers is an utterly pointless guessing game.
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@Tarik
Why? You don’t believe in objective morality.
Of course I do.
I'm just trying to work out the specifics.
You know, so I can make sure everyone else is doing it the right way.
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@Tarik
@3RU7AL
>@Tarikwhat’s the third VALID option?Seriously, if you're going to include the word "valid" as a qualifier, you really must explain what you mean by "valid", otherwise random casting for "valid" answers is an utterly pointless guessing game.
I agree whole heartedly.
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@3RU7AL
Why? You don’t believe in objective morality.Of course I do.I'm just trying to work out the specifics.You know, so I can make sure everyone else is doing it the right way.
I cannot begin to explain why but this puts me in mind of Brad Pitt's performance in inglorious bastards.
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@secularmerlin
@3RU7AL
Seriously, if you're going to include the word "valid" as a qualifier, you really must explain what you mean by "valid", otherwise random casting for "valid" answers is an utterly pointless guessing game.
...No, are you serious? Every word I say now I gotta define? You guys act as if you don’t have access to the internet (you clearly do otherwise you wouldn’t be engaging in this discussion) I’m not about making my own “personally preferred” definitions what I mean by the word is the same as Google or any other source.
Valid-(of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.
And if your so called “third option” (which you’ve still yet to demonstrate) isn’t that then it’s not an option, and it’s not a false dichotomy fallacy. In fact misplacing a declared fallacy is a fallacy in itself.
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@Tarik
Valid-(of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.
The conflict seems to be that you don't personally think any 3rd option is valid (prima facie).
For example,
You seemed to suggest a non-GOD believer is incapable of moral action.
And I have absolutely no idea how you might (even hypothetically) validate that claim.
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@3RU7AL
That’s for YOU to validate not me.
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@Tarik
That’s for YOU to validate not me.
I really need to ask if you understand what a burden of proof is, why it is necessary BEFORE your idea is considered valid (and I do mean your idea so long as you are alluding to things you cannot demonstrate even if you are not "arguing that they are true") and if you understand why a claim of what you are calling objective morality requires one and what I have referred to as subjective morality doesn't even if you think it is the wrong term for the proposition I am referring to that we both recognize exists.
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@secularmerlin
I really need to ask if you understand what a burden of proof is, why it is necessary BEFORE your idea is considered valid
I do, but I’m not sure you do. I don’t know how far you got with me and 3’s discussion but he’s the one that made an unsubstantial claim, so the BOP is on him.
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@Tarik
You asked me if there was a third "valid" option when the options you are already suggesting do not appear to have a sound basis in logic or fact.
If you cannot prove the options you have suggested are valid as defined by Google I will have no choice but to conclude that validity is unimportant in this case.
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@secularmerlin
You asked me if there was a third "valid" option when the options you are already suggesting do not appear to have a sound basis in logic or fact.
That’s because your so hung up on your “third option” that you’ve failed to demonstrate.
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@Tarik
That’s because your so hung up on your “third option” that you’ve failed to demonstrate.
Actually all the other options. That's the thing. There are nearly as many beliefs about morality as there are adult autonomous humans. How have you evaluated all of them for validity? How have you validated your preferred concept of morality or being a psychotic nihilist?