Our most basic axioms

Author: secularmerlin

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Tarik
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@secularmerlin
How have you validated your preferred concept of morality or being a psychotic nihilist?
Nihilism is a negative position, so it doesn’t need to be validated, I don’t know how many times I have to say that.

secularmerlin
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@Tarik
Fine just yours then and how have you invalidated ALL OTHERS
Tarik
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@secularmerlin
I’m willing to omit mine for sake of the discussion and leave it all to nihilism, as for all the “others” unless you plan on arguing in defense of them all (which I suggest you don’t because that’s a lot of work) then maybe you should demonstrate your “third valid” option before you worry about anything else.

secularmerlin
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@Tarik
And if nothing exists beyond survival instinct at work and that just tends towards cooperation? If there is no answer beyond that then what? That is where we are in the conversation. No intrinsic meaning or objective morality and humans still cooperate and care for and about each other. So given that you are not arguing for more we are we in agreement fundamentally for the purposes  of this conversation? Or is there some larger point you are trying to make?
Tarik
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@secularmerlin
So given that you are not arguing for more we are we in agreement fundamentally for the purposes  of this conversation?
But your not arguing in favor of nihilism.
secularmerlin
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@Tarik
I am not arguing in favor of any answer until some answer is demonstrated.

Humans appear to act cooperatively as part of their survival instinct and neither of us can demonstrate more. 

In this entire conversation I have not argued that there was more to my personal preferred standard. 

I have to say you don't seem to know what makes an argument valid however. You can't even form a basic syllogism. I'm not therefore worried about whether you think some argument is less valid than some argument you haven't actually bothered to make.
Tarik
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@secularmerlin
I am not arguing in favor of any answer until some answer is demonstrated. 
Then what’s this about a third or many more other options?
secularmerlin
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@Tarik
Then what’s this about a third or many more other options?
Forget it. You don't seem to understand what constitutes a logically valid argument (your preferred  definition)and since you cannot spot them it doesn't do to argue with you about what is or is not valid.
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@secularmerlin
The bottom line is.

Tarik has a subjective opinion regarding their personally derived concept of an objective morality....And Tarik expects that you should agree.

It's a futile discussion.
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@Tarik
#1000
Tarik
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@secularmerlin
Forget it.
Sounds like what people who don’t seem to understand what constitutes a logically valid argument would say.
Tarik
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@zedvictor4
It's a futile discussion.
Then why partake? You’ve been doing so for quite some time now.

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@Tarik
You seemed to suggest a non-GOD believer is incapable of moral action.

And I have absolutely no idea how you might (even hypothetically) validate that claim.
That’s for YOU to validate not me.
This sounds like you are confirming "a non-GOD believer is incapable of moral action" is your claim.

Is this correct?
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
It sounds to me like you are confirming "a non-GOD believer IS CAPABLE of moral action" is your claim.

Is this correct?

3RU7AL
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@Tarik
It sounds to me like you are confirming "a non-GOD believer IS CAPABLE of moral action" is your claim.

Is this correct?
YES.

And in support of that claim, COUNTRIES WITH LOWER RATES OF RELIGIOSITY ALSO HAVE LOWER CRIME RATES.

The most religious societies include Nigeria, Uganda, the Philippines, Pakistan, Morocco, Egypt, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, El Salvador, Colombia, Senegal, Malawi, Indonesia, Brazil, Peru, Jordan, Algeria, Ghana, Venezuela, Mexico and Sierra Leone.

It is the highly secularized countries that tend to fare the best in terms of crime rates, prosperity, equality, freedom, democracy, women’s rights, human rights, educational attainment and life expectancy. (Although there are exceptions, such as Vietnam and China, which have famously poor human rights records.)

And those nations with the highest rates of religiosity tend to be the most problem-ridden in terms of high violent crime rates, high infant mortality rates, high poverty rates and high rates of corruption.

Take homicide. According to the United Nations’ 2011 Global Study on Homicide, of the 10 nations with the highest homicide rates, all are very religious, and many — such as Colombia, Mexico, El Salvador and Brazil — are among the most theistic nations in the world. Of the nations with the lowest homicide rates, nearly all are very secular, with seven ranking among the least theistic nations, such as Sweden, Japan, Norway and the Netherlands. [**]
secularmerlin
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@Tarik
Sounds like what people who don’t seem to understand what constitutes a logically valid argument would say.
It would be pretteasy to prove me wrong. Just explain what makes an argument valid or construct a valid argument (like a syllogism) otherwise I'll assume the Dunning Kruger effect and a lot of this conversation will make much more sense to me if not to you.
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@secularmerlin
DEITY = OMNISCIENT OMNIPOTENT OMNIPRESENT ETERNAL CREATOR OF ALL
MORAL = BEHAVIOR AND OR INTENTIONS THAT WILL BE REWARDED BY DEITY
IMMORAL = BEHAVIOR AND OR INTENTIONS THAT WILL BE PUNISHED BY DEITY
"EXISTS" = TREATED AS A FACT FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS PROPOSAL
"NIHILISM" = ANYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE UNWAVERING FAITH IN DEITY

(IFF) DEITY "EXISTS" (AND) (IFF) DEITY IS "MORAL" (AND) (IFF) DEITY CERTAINLY PUNISHES IMMORAL AND REWARDS MORAL (THEN) "OBJECTIVE MORALITY" "EXISTS" 

(ELSE) "NIHILISM"

THEREFORE, YOU MUST DISCOVER AND OR OTHERWISE DETECT THE ONE TRUE SECRET MORAL CODEX IFF YOU FEAR UNSPECIFIED PUNISHMENT AND OR HOPE FOR UNSPECIFIED REWARD
secularmerlin
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@3RU7AL
Always the over achiever doing Tarik's homework. Now if he copies you how will I know he has learned the lesson or just being a parrot?
3RU7AL
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@secularmerlin
Always the over achiever doing Tarik's homework. Now if he copies you how will I know he has learned the lesson or just being a parrot?
Teach someone to fish?
secularmerlin
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@3RU7AL
Teach someone to fish?
The teaching and the learning are both so fundamentally worthwhile for their own sake that even a failed attempt at one is not a waste of time.
3RU7AL
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@secularmerlin
Also, compared to mop, pga, eth, tarik is leading the pack.
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@secularmerlin
I have a suspicion that Tarik might be suggesting PROCRUSTEAN MORALITY when they use the term "objective morality".
3RU7AL
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@secularmerlin
Perhaps I could set up a booth at a carnival with a sign,

"Your Philosophical self-portrait painted in logic for the low low price of 1000 responses"
secularmerlin
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@3RU7AL
I think I'd be willing to wait in line for that.
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
That implies the law is moral, which is a claim you’ve yet to prove, it also implies that every law breaker is held accountable, and don’t get me started on innocent people that are held accountable for crimes they didn’t even commit.
Tarik
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@secularmerlin
Just explain what makes an argument valid
I did that already.
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@Tarik
I did that already.
Humor me. Tell me again. 
3RU7AL
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@Tarik
That implies the law is moral, which is a claim you’ve yet to prove.
Please correct me if I am mistaken,

But didn't you define "moral" as "behavior that will be rewarded" and "immoral" as "behavior that will be punished"?

THE ONE TRUE SECRET MORAL CODEX = A COMPREHENSIVE CATALOG OF ALL BEHAVIOR AND OR INTENTIONS THAT WILL BE REWARDED AND OR PUNISHED

Tarik
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@secularmerlin
Humor me. Tell me again. 
Why?
Tarik
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@3RU7AL
But didn't you define "moral" as "behavior that will be rewarded" and "immoral" as "behavior that will be punished"?
In the afterlife.