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Author: Stephen

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#61
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Stephen,

YOUR QUOTE TO THE PGA2.0 RUNAWAY FROM ME IN BIBLE DISCUSSION: " I don't believe he was raised from being deceased and physically dead after laying there stinking and rotting in his private rich friends tomb set in private grounds, for three days . "

What I have had to accept as a TRUE Christian, is the Biblical FACT that when Jesus was raised from His 3 day tomb nap in a Zombie form, He therefore really didn't DIE for our sins because He came back to life, and to be a true sacrifice, you have to remain DEAD!  

Bottom line, JESUS DID NOT DIE in the true sense of the term for our sins!   :(



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@Stephen
The same way you saw Him go into heaven? He went into heaven, "and a cloud took Him up, out of their sight.

And hasn't returned and you haven't proven that he did , So please change your boring record. And millions of Christians do not agree with you. 
You are very disingenuous here. You set up a thread, tell everyone that Jesus was a no-show, then, when refuted, provide these one-liners with little proof. 

Little proof of what.?
What are we speaking about? My two previous posts provide a clue. Did you read them? I justify my interpretation through hermeneutics, which I believe is biblical and not easy to refute without doing tremendous damage to the context and greater context. I asked you all kinds of questions about your interpretation, and you gave very little justification, usually your one-sentence blurbs that I had already discussed.  

I haven't made the claim that he has already returned. That was YOU! sunshine.
I provided proof from Scripture's text, not some futuristic eschatological denominational twist. Futurism gained widespread acceptance with Darby and Scofield to become the mainstream thought. It is wrong, and even skeptics like Hume and Schweitzer saw futurism as flawed.  

I didn't make the claim to those people  living at the time of the promise that they will witness him/Jesus return on a cloud, either. 
I'm sure they understood the reference of clouds better than we do today. 
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@Stephen

Peter's verse about "scoffers" only comes years after the people started to wise up and ask where was Jesus. 
As I explained, scoffers and mockers were questioning the coming but Peter explains that God is not slow in keeping His promises, not wanting any of the elect to perish. I explained that Jesus told that generation they would witness His coming and the judgment. I asked you how long a generation, identified in Scripture is, of which you gave no reply as normal. It does not suit such warped theology that you borrowed from those who hold a futuristic view. 

A generation by inductive reasoning in Scripture is a period of forty years. 

During the Exodus from Egypt God told that generation they would not enter the Promised Land because of their grumbling and unbelief. 

your dead bodies will fall in this wilderness, all your numbered men according to your complete number from twenty years old and upward, who have grumbled against Me. 30 By no means will you come into the land where I [q]swore to settle you, except for Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun. 31 Your children, however, whom you said would become plunder—I will bring them in, and they will know the land which you have rejected. 32 But as for you, your dead bodies will fall in this wilderness. 33 Also, your sons will be shepherds in the wilderness for forty years, and they will [r]suffer for your unfaithfulness, until your bodies perish in the wilderness. 34 In accordance with the number of days that you spied out the land, forty days, for every day you shall suffer the punishment for your [s]guilt a year, that is, forty years, and you will know My opposition.

It took forty years for that generation to perish in the wilderness. Like the OT, the typology of this physical exodus is seen in Jesus Christ. He is the Second Moses in leading His people to the new Promised Land, the heavenly country, in the second exodus. Just like Moses, the people grumble against Jesus Christ yet He extends His grace towards them for forty years. That is why the author of Hebrews could say:

Hebrews 3 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession: Jesus; 2 [a]He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. 3 For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. 5 Now Moses was faithful in all [b]God’s house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; 6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the boast of our [c]hope.
7 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today if you hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as [d]when they provoked Me,
As on the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers put Me to the test,
And saw My works for forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with this generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they did not know My ways’;
11 As I swore in My anger,
‘They certainly shall not enter My rest.’”
The Danger of Unbelief
12 Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart [e]that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another every day, as long as it is still called “today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we keep the beginning of our [f]commitment firm until the end, 15 while it is said,
“Today if you hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts, as [g]when they provoked Me.”
16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief. 

Jesus too gives Israel forty years to come into that rest through Him that their forefathers failed to enter. Unlike Moses, who was not allowed to enter the Promised Land, Jesus leads His faithful people into that land, while those with unbelief perish once again.

Forty years, from AD 30 - AD 70.


#64
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@Stephen

when refuted

"refute" means that you have shown proof.   But you haven't shown proof of anything that actually proves your claim. I have told you, pointing to ambiguous and unreliable verses from the same ambiguous and unreliable source does not amount to any kind of proof. 
You are just plain cold closed to listening. You have eyes that do not see, ears that do not hear, and a heart that will not soften.

I have shown proof. You failed to answer my questions.
Who is the audience of address in the Olivet Discourse (for example, Matthew 24:3)? 
Who is the audience of address in Matthew 16:27-28?
Who is the audience of address in Acts 1:9-11? 
Who is the audience of address in 2 Peter? 

Any idea? 

What does it mean the Jesus said He would come in the glory of the Fathter? 
How did the Father come in glory in the OT?

Any idea?

There are millions of Christians still waiting for his return.  AND just like YOU, they too quote verses from the bible  that - according to them - point to Jesus' imminent return - that hasn't happened yet. 
True, there are millions waiting for His return. What is the standard that they get there information from, the Bible or some denomination? What should their standard be? 

Here is just one example of Christians believing Jesus' arrival is near . Notice how many pointless bible verses they too point to that profess his arrival  is imminent. 
Yes, it was imminent in the 1st-century. To that audience of address passage after passage speaks of a soon, quick, near coming, within the span of that generation. You nor any Christian could prove that one NT verse that mentions "this generation" is speaking of another one other than at that time. You can't prove otherwise. Thus, the denominations have botched up a correct interpretation. 

What exactly do you want me to dispute here? Are you going to give your whole argument through links?

Here's another that "refutes"  your claim

Shall I just keep posting Christian organisations the "refute" what you insist as already happened? 
I could refute every one of those heading that are incorrect in that article, but I want to refute your arguments, not there's. You are living off the backs of others who misinform you. How well do you actually understand the Bible? Not well. Joseph Smith is not even recognized as a Christian but a false prophet and charleton. No biblical Christian who has an ounce of sense recognizes the Mormons as brothers in Christ. They are wolves among the sheep. 

The interesting thing about this conversation is that we agree on nearly everything.  I believe there is a great possibility that Jesus was alive and well in 70 AD.
Again, what is the evidence? By alive you mean never died, up until AD 70. For me, as a professing Christian, I believe that Jesus was crucified, died, and rose again three days later to never die again. So let's not equivocate here.  

You claim he definitely was and had returned from the dead to show himself at the fall of Jerusalem. 
Yes, to show Himself in the same manner that the Father showed Himself, not physically, but spiritually. His presence was understood to be in heaven at the right hand of the Father, making His enemies a footstool with the judgment at that time. 

 I don't believe he was raised from being deceased and physically dead after laying there stinking and rotting in his private rich friends tomb set in private grounds, for three days .
Well, after three days His body would not have yet rotted. Who cares what you think unless you can back up your conjecture as reasonable and truthful. Go ahead.

You believe as the bible claims in the miracle that Jesus rose from the dead after three days. ( And you nor the bible has ever explained who raised him)?
Here again, you show you do not know the Bible as well as you might think you do. The reader is told via Scripture that Jesus will raise Himself as well as the Father raising Him because what applies to God applies to Jesus.

Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” (21 But He was speaking about the [a]temple of His body.)

For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.

The Father raises the dead. Jesus was dead. Figure it out.

And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day.

Jesus raises the dead. Jesus raises Himself. Figure it out.

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

What is true of the Father is true of the Son.

But God raised Him from the dead, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

It is this Jesus whom God raised up, a fact to which we are all witnesses.

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You are just plain cold closed to listening. You have eyes that do not see, ears that do not hear, and a heart that will not soften.

No. that will be you.

And like I have shown above.    For every one of your cherry picked verses you decide and believe fits your own narrative there are just as many  from Christian organisations that can, will and do, cherry pick  verses to say Jesus hasn't returned yet but his return is "imminent". 

So stop stamping your feet and crying about it.

Well, after three days His body would not have yet rotted.

"rotting" , is what I have wrote. Here educate yourself ffs!  Decomposition begins several minutes after death, with a process called autolysis, or self-digestion. Soon after the heart stops beating, cells become deprived of oxygen, and their acidity increases as the toxic by-products of chemical reactions begin to accumulate inside them.



Who cares what you think

You do.  It  is why your are crying and stamping your feet all over the forum because I do not agree with you.  



unless you can back up your conjecture as reasonable and truthful. 

What!?   I have said quite plainly, open and clear to you, that I cannot prove what I believe. I have used the word "coincidence" often.  Not once have I made no claims that what I believe is fact. 

But the odd ting here is that while you ask me to "back up my conjecture",   YOU have shown YOUR support of my belief  that Jesus was alive and well at the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70!!!!!     Is this another coincidence? 

The difference is that YOU state it as fact whereas I made it clear I cannot prove a single thing.
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@BrotherDThomas
What I have had to accept as a TRUE Christian, is the Biblical FACT that when Jesus was raised from His 3 day tomb nap in a Zombie form, He therefore really didn't DIE for our sins because He came back to life, and to be a true sacrifice, you have to remain DEAD!  

Bottom line, JESUS DID NOT DIE in the true sense of the term for our sins!   :(

Exactly Brother!!  And I understand that when this fact revealed itself to you via all your years of religious study, that it must have come as a great shock to you. 

Bottom line, JESUS DID NOT DIE in the true sense of the term for our sins!   :(

Brother, through all of your years of dogged bible and religious study and years of religious training and preaching do you recall reading that other extremely coincidental story left to us  from  the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus concerning three of his friends?  I know you are a busy man so please allow me to remind you.

“And when I was sent by Titus Caesar with Cerealins, and a thousand horsemen, to a certain village called Thecoa, in order to know whether it were a place fit for a camp, as
I came back, I saw many captives crucified,      and remembered three of them as my former acquaintance.

I was very sorry at this in my mind, and went with tears in my eyes to Titus, and told him of them; so he immediately commanded them to betaken down, and to have the greatest care taken of them, in order to their recovery; yet two of them died under the physician's hands,while the third recovered”.

So here above Josephus asked Titus in person to have his friends taken down and spared, this was when Vespasian was Emperor. Now we read from John’s gospel;

“And after this Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus:and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus”. John 19:38-42.KJV

But this ` coincidental '  story doesn't end there.   If you recall Brother, the two brigands hanging next to the biblical Jesus at his crucifixion didn't make it either but Jesus, just as with Josephus' friend, recovered too.

 What do you think Brother? What an amazing coincidence, eh!!!!? 



#67
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@Stephen

You are just plain cold closed to listening. You have eyes that do not see, ears that do not hear, and a heart that will not soften.
No. that will be you.
You started this pissing match with ad hominem. The problem is you started a thread on a subject that I have studied in depth for over ten years. And I have been a Christian for almost forty years so most of your threads are not new to me. It would just take a tremendous amount of time to address all your confirmation bias. Here, on this thread, I am pointing out that you have not been accountable for what you wrote. You ignore most of the questions I ask you because you want to direct the narrative to your purposes, which is your bias towards Christianity. I pointed out one page of your multiply threads that display this abnormal obsession and anger with Christianity.

I'm hoping for a reasoned response but if you fail what is written speaks for itself whether you respond or not. 

And like I have shown above.    For every one of your cherry picked verses you decide and believe fits your own narrative there are just as many  from Christian organisations that can, will and do, cherry pick  verses to say Jesus hasn't returned yet but his return is "imminent". 
Our standard as Christians is not some denomination or organizations, but the Bible, God's Word. 

Imminent does not mean 20-centuries later. The text gives the interpretation and makes its meaning plain. 

So stop stamping your feet and crying about it.
Oh, great, more drama! Who's crying now? Boohoo. 

Well, after three days His body would not have yet rotted.
"rotting" , is what I have wrote. Here educate yourself ffs!  Decomposition begins several minutes after death, with a process called autolysis, or self-digestion. Soon after the heart stops beating, cells become deprived of oxygen, and their acidity increases as the toxic by-products of chemical reactions begin to accumulate inside them.
So, what is your point? He raised three days later, per Scripture. These disciples then went out into the known world preaching the gospel because of the resurrection. They suffered, most of them to the point of death, for what - a lie?  

Who cares what you think
You do.  It  is why your are crying and stamping your feet all over the forum because I do not agree with you. 

You:
Who cares what you think unless you can back up your conjecture as reasonable and truthful. Go ahead.
It is no skin off my back what you think but when you post it on a forum get ready to be challenged. I believe your view does not have a leg to stand on. 

unless you can back up your conjecture as reasonable and truthful.
 What!?   I have said quite plainly, open and clear to you, that I cannot prove what I believe. I have used the word "coincidence" often.  Not once have I made no claims that what I believe is fact.
I can prove it. As I pointed out, there is evidence for my faith. Can I prove it to you without a doubt? No, not likely. You are not open to hearing. You choose not to believe. You are a skeptic that does not want to discuss the reasonableness of the Christian faith. You have built up a resistance over the years from a secular confirmation bias. You have been told Christianity does not make sense, Christianity is not true. 

But the odd thing here is that while you ask me to "back up my conjecture",   YOU have shown YOUR support of my belief  that Jesus was alive and well at the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70!!!!!     Is this another coincidence.
I have explained that. What you mean and what I mean are two different things. You mean Jesus never died. I mean He died, was buried and rose again from the dead three days later. 

The difference is that YOU state it as fact whereas I made it clear I cannot prove a single thing.
Is it a fact that the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70? 
Is it a fact that the NT writers prophesied that would happen before it did? Show me the evidence otherwise.
Is it true that there are written historical records that record the birth, life, death and resurrection of Yeshua/Jesus, the Messiah?
Is it true that these records describe this Jesus as being put to death and these disciples claim He rose from the dead?   
Is it true that we have historic records that state some of these disciples went to their deaths believing that Jesus Christ had risen from the dead?
Is it true that Christianity grew to be the biggest religious belief in the world based on the two testaments, the OT, and the NT?
Is it reasonable to believe that no canonized NT writing was written after AD 70? Most reasonable. Show me the proof otherwise. 
Is it true that the Olivet Discourse prophecies are shown coming to fulfillment even before Peter and Paul were executed by Nero? Yes! Most definitely. Show otherwise.
Is it true that prophecy is intricately connected throughout the Bible?
Is it true that after the fall of Jerusalem there is no more atonement for sin as required by OT law? 
Is it true that the priesthood is no longer mediating for the people after AD 70? 
Is it true that the whole temple ritual system of worship and economy is no longer operational after AD 70?
Is it true that the feast days can no longer be followed as per the Mosaic law after AD 70?
Is it true that the genealogies regarding the priesthood are no longer available after AD 70?

Show me otherwise, and not by posting a link. Give me some actual evidence to work with. If you want to quote from some link an area for discussion I'm fine with that but don't blitz me with a link full of information or I will do the same to you.  

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You started this pissing match with ad hominem.

Nope, wrong again. 
I started this thread questioning Jesus's failure to return when he promised to according to scripture.  You have claimed  he kept his promise and returned in 70 AD. You haven't proven that and millions of Christians contradict you and your belief, as stupid as it is..



The problem is you started a thread on a subject that I have studied in depth for over ten years.

Which comes nowhere near my 40+ years years in bible study and the New Testament in particular.  and it is not a "problem" for me. 

It is no skin off my back what you think but when you post it on a forum get ready to be challenged.

 I am. And you still haven't proven anything.



I believe your view does not have a leg to stand on. 

What view is that? 


I can prove it. As I pointed out, there is evidence for my faith. Can I prove it to you without a doubt? No, not likely

Stamping your feet again. You really should grow up sunshine. 

You choose not to believe.

I choose not to believe YOUR version of events.


You have been told Christianity does not make sense,

 Nope. Wrong again. I found out for myself that scripture makes no sense in the way it has come down to us. 

[ that] Christianity is not true. 

Wrong again. I know Christians  ergo Christianity exists. I just don't believe what  YOU and other Christians believe in. 


I'm hoping for a reasoned response

And I gave you quite a few. And most of all, I have shown you that for every cherry picked verse that you believe "proves" Jesus had already returned in 70 AD,   there are as many if not more verses that hundreds of CHRISTIAN organisations can cherry pick from showing Jesus has not returned yet but his arrival is imminent. Would you like more from those many Christian organisations?  Which kind of makes nonsense of your own bullshit, doesn't it?  Face it, you have been out bullshitted by a better outfit that has more knowledge about these ambiguous and   unreliable scriptures than you will ever live to know. 

 You mean Jesus never died.

 I do.

I mean He died, was buried and rose again from the dead three days later.

Prove it!?


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@Stephen
@PGA2.0



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PGA2.0, the Satanic "Preterist" rewriter of the Bible at the cost of calling Jesus a LIAR, therefore committing the Unpardonable Sin!:

YOUR LAUGHABLE AND CONTRADICTING QUOTE: "Our standard as Christians is not some denomination or organizations, but the Bible, God's Word."

You blatantly contradict yourself when you say that the standard of the Hell Bound Preterist is not in it's denomination, when factually it is because ONLY the dumbfounded Preterist's DIVISION OF THE FAITH is the cause of their outright stupidity to believe in the ungodly "Invisible Second Coming" of our serial killer Jesus.  Where comically to the Preterist this allegedly already happened on Pentecost Sunday, June 22, AD 66, where the foundation being within the parable of the ten virgins ( Matthew 25:1-13). Therefore in being a Preterist, YOU remain one of the most disturbing and mentally challenged pseudo-christians upon this forum!

If you are going to proffer that the Bible is Jesus' word, then in the link given, this is what the Preterist Bible looks like subsequent to where Jesus has already had His 2nd coming, and therefore removing all Christian notions of awaiting to be arisen to heaven at this time. Pay close attention to the circled passages, and try to hold back your laughter of a Bible rewrite:  https://ibb.co/55Vq3SJ

PGA2.0, you have proved yourself of not being able to discuss Christianity with me because you have RUN AWAY from me in the following link: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5766-a-problem-for-the-ontological-argument?page=4&post_number=94. Therefore, remain upon the sidelines where you belong while I easily show you, the membership, and Jesus that you are just another Bible inept pseudo-christian upon this prestigious Religion Forum, understood Preterist Bible fool?


IS THERE ANY MORE PRETERIST'S UPON THIS FORUM TO BE BIBLE SLAPPED SILLY®️ BY ME, AND OTHER MEMBERS, AND THE HELL BOUND ATHEIST, STEVEN?


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@Stephen
@fauxlaw



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Stephen,

We have seen many a dumbfounded pseudo-christian upon this esteemed Religion Forum, but do you agree that PGA2.0's Satanic faith of Preterism is in the ranks of being another organization that rewrites the Bible of Christianity at their expense as shown in my post #69 above?  Since we do not know the DIVISION of Christianity that the #1 Bible ignorant fool, and #1 runaway from Biblical discussion FAUXLAW follows, and for his sake, we can leave him on the sidelines for now and let him have a needed rest that he so sorely needs because of him being easily Bible Slapped Silly®️ by us and other members. LOL!

If a pseudo-christian wants to ensure that they have committed the dreadful Unpardonable Sin, and the ramifications thereof, then be a Preterist!   


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@Stephen
You started this pissing match with ad hominem.

Nope, wrong again. 
I started this thread questioning Jesus's failure to return when he promised to according to scripture.  You have claimed  he kept his promise and returned in 70 AD. You haven't proven that and millions of Christians contradict you and your belief, as stupid as it is..
You may have started the thread questioning what you believe is a no-show, but in your posts to me, starting at Post 30, you began the ad homs. 


The problem is you started a thread on a subject that I have studied in depth for over ten years.

Which comes nowhere near my 40+ years years in bible study and the New Testament in particular.  and it is not a "problem" for me. 
I, too, have studied the Bible for around the same period of time. Why don't we let someone else judge who has the better argument here? How about a formal debate? I can set it up. 

It is no skin off my back what you think but when you post it on a forum get ready to be challenged.

 I am. And you still haven't proven anything.

Post 30:
But YOU!  In typical fashion of the theist caught on the backfoot, you have ignored what these scriptures actually state.

LOOK>> “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32. 
What generation does the text infer? Answer that.
What things were to happen? Answer that since you claim 40 years of Bible study. List them, and I will go down your list.

Once you answer these two questions, I will demonstrate through Scripture that all these things have already happened and had by AD 70. 

I believe your view does not have a leg to stand on. 

What view is that? 
The view you stated above, that I have not proven anything, the view that the Preterist view of Scripture is wrong, the view that the Bible is false, the view that there is no God. How is that for starters?

I can prove it. As I pointed out, there is evidence for my faith. Can I prove it to you without a doubt? No, not likely

Stamping your feet again. You really should grow up sunshine. 
Stamping my feet? How is that? You have a vivid imagination. About growing up, how is insulting me constantly instead of addressing the argument growing up? 

You choose not to believe.

I choose not to believe YOUR version of events.
Then answer my questions, pick apart my view and demonstrate it is wrong. Just because you don't believe it does not necessarily make it wrong.  

You have been told Christianity does not make sense,

 Nope. Wrong again. I found out for myself that scripture makes no sense in the way it has come down to us. 
How has it come down to us? 

[ that] Christianity is not true. 

Wrong again. I know Christians  ergo Christianity exists. I just don't believe what  YOU and other Christians believe in. 
Fine, and I don't believe other worldviews can justify or make sense of themselves while I can show that Christianity can and is most reasonable. Again, whether you choose to believe it is up to you, not me. 

I'm hoping for a reasoned response

And I gave you quite a few. And most of all, I have shown you that for every cherry picked verse that you believe "proves" Jesus had already returned in 70 AD,   there are as many if not more verses that hundreds of CHRISTIAN organisations can cherry pick from showing Jesus has not returned yet but his arrival is imminent. Would you like more from those many Christian organisations?  Which kind of makes nonsense of your own bullshit, doesn't it?  Face it, you have been out bullshitted by a better outfit that has more knowledge about these ambiguous and  unreliable scriptures than you will ever live to know. 
Bring it on. Take a verse at a time so we don't get swamped. Remember, the Christian's authority is God's Word, not some organization or denomination. 

 You mean Jesus never died.

 I do.
That is not what Scripture teaches. It is not what the early church fathers taught. Where are you getting this belief from? Name your sources and why they are believable to you.

I mean He died, was buried and rose again from the dead three days later.

Prove it!?
What proof will you accept? None, right? How can you accept something you do not believe in? 

Hebrews 11:6 (NASB)
6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for the one who comes to God must believe that He exists, and that He proves to be One who rewards those who seek Him.

Why would you come to a God you do not believe exists, and since you do not believe Him, why would He reward you and confirm His existence to you. As with Adam, you have elevated your thoughts above that of His revelation. The difference is that Adam never had a written revelation, and you never had a personal relationship, whereas Scripture reveals Adam did.  

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But YOU!  In typical fashion of the theist caught on the backfoot, you have ignored what these scriptures actually state.

LOOK>> “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32. 
What generation does the text infer? Answer that

 I have already. Jesus  also says the those alive at the time that he made his promise return will see him return. 

Or have you forgotten this >> :“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

Even at his trial he told the priests and the council that they too would witness his return Or have you also forgotten this>>>:"you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven"Matthew26: 63, 64.

And I gave you quite a few. And most of all, I have shown you that for every cherry picked verse that you believe "proves" Jesus had already returned in 70 AD,   there are as many if not more verses that hundreds of CHRISTIAN organisations can cherry pick from showing Jesus has not returned yet but his arrival is imminent. Would you like more from those many Christian organisations?  Which kind of makes nonsense of your own bullshit, doesn't it?  Face it, you have been out bullshitted by a better outfit that has more knowledge about these ambiguous and  unreliable scriptures than you will ever live to know. 
Bring it on.
See below. And  just to remind you, as unreliable as Wikipedia is I cannot see it as having  any reasons to exaggerating the times the "second coming" has been already predicted   BY CHRISTIANS  since the ascending  AND the fall of Jerusalem.  

Just to list a few of hundreds:

 Sextus Julius Africanus  a Christian  historian as was  Irenaeus who was brought up in a Christian. St Beatus of Liébana he was a christian  , theologian and geographer. Hippolytus of Rome  was one of the most important second-third century Christian theologians.

 Pope Sylvester II   Jan 1000, John Wesley English cleric, theologian, and evangelist, who was a leader of a revival movement within the Church of England known as Methodism predicted 1836,  Catholic Apostolic Church predicted 1901 and the very famous Jehovah's Witnesses who predicted 1914. 

ALL ARE  Christians .  They too must have , just like you, failed to read and understand the bible too.



What do Catholics think of the second coming?

Jesus Will Return Soon/ Unsettling signs of Jesus’ return


Second Coming Of Jesus Christ


As in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man

FOURTEEN SIGNS ANNOUNCING CHRIST'S RETURN


Take a verse at a time so we don't get swamped.

That is your bullshit forte , . you can argue with the comments and against those cherry-picked biblical verses in those links that state Jesus hasn't returned yet and it won't make a blind bit of difference to me.    Although, interestingly ,they do happen to agree with me that Jesus hasn't returned and so far has failed in his promise. 
So, knock yourself out.



Why would you come to a God you do not believe exists

 I haven't. I have joined a forum that allows me to  scrutinise and criticize and highlight the ambiguous anomalous half stories that make up scripture and ask the likes of you to explain them  and answer my questions. But you never can without invoking the super natural , such as hundreds of years old corpses coming to life again.



I mean He died, was buried and rose again from the dead three days later.

Prove it!?
What proof will you accept?

 Well you could start by explain how a man dead and rotting for three days came back to life...........................In a thread of your own.



Why don't we let someone else judge who has the better argument here? How about a formal debate?

I am more than happy on this open forum.   But  how about that  you start a thread laying out your belief that Jesus has  retuned to earth as promised in 66 - 70 AD already!   Let us see how much support and agreement you get from the Christian members on the forum.  I should imagine your thread will garner much attention considering most if not all of the theist and some atheist here don't agree with me either . Off you go then. 



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LOOK>> “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32. 
What generation does the text infer? Answer that

 I have already. Jesus  also says the those alive at the time that he made his promise return will see him return. 

Or have you forgotten this >> :“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

Even at his trial he told the priests and the council that they too would witness his return Or have you also forgotten this>>>:"you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven"Matthew26: 63, 64.
Okay, commitment! You say 1st-century. You say that the text teaches the 1st-century, and that is correct judging from the texts themselves. Granting for a second (for those reading this) that Christianity is true, it would mean that futurist views do not understand the nature of the Second Coming, that Jesus did come back, and to that generation, He judged, as promised. And what do we find in Scripture and by recorded history?

Now to the dozens of questions you failed to answer. IMO, you don't answer them because they incriminate your position. You don't want others to see how irrational your position is.

So, once again, what are the signs that Jesus said would happen in that generation?

What did Jesus mean when He said He would come in His Father's glory, with His angels, and that He would give everyone their due recompense?
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As I explained, scoffers and mockers were questioning the coming but Peter explains that God is not slow in keeping His promises,

 Nope . Peter was a  the liar and turncoat. When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - and that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER,  that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?   give me a fkn break!
 Joseph Smith is not even recognized as a Christian but a false prophet

I agree, as are you. Your own bullshit is totally on par with this fake "prophet". You are no better and have nothing new to say only regurgitate all the  Shite that has been said in the past.

No biblical Christian who has an ounce of sense recognizes the Mormons as brothers in Christ. 
Except other Christian Mormons and perhaps our resident monk, Mopac

 You claimed Peter was teaching a no-show.

Nope. Again you are putting words into my mouth.  I have claimed that Peter,  the lying turncoat, actually tried to explain away Jesus' no show with the bullshit excuse that to "the Lord"  a generation was a thousands years. And only came up with that shite years after the crucifixion and the population had started to question the promised return..  Its a shame Jesus didn't  mention the " 1,000 years" crap  at the time, isn't it?


And you keep forgetting Jesus' actual words according to the scripture.>>>>> :“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28. That will be those " alive and standing " at the time of the promise to you and in any language including ancient Greek!

Even at his trial he told the priests and the council that they too would witness his return Or have you also forgotten this>>>:"you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven"Matthew26: 63, 64.


What did Jesus mean when He said He would come in His Father's glory, with His angels, and that He would give everyone their due recompense?

You don't get this at all do you?  That shite is for you to explain, ( if it is at all relevant to the thread).  It is not for me to support your own mental theory or beliefs about Jesus already having returned as promised. So you explain it and I will read your explanation and any relevance you believe it has to this thread. 


Okay, commitment! You say 1st-century.

 Stop putting words into my mouth. What I say is that Jesus hasn't returned on a cloud after resurrecting form the dead and stinking in his rich friends  tomb for days and then descending from "heaven".

MILLIONS !!!! of Christians don't believe that his return hasn't happened at all , "yet"  but his arrival is immanent.


So, once again, what are the signs that Jesus said would happen in that generation?

Already covered and again this was explained earlier when Jesus to his disciples said of the signs to look out for.. I mentioned this is my very first post. But you are so so far up your own arse that you didn't bother to read it or have simply forgotten what I wrote. Either way, here it is again... 

POST #1  Stephen Added01.30.21 06: Wrote: 

Jesus then goes further telling them which “signs” to look out for but this time including the whole “generation” and ending again with:

“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS  on top of those further promises about returning before those ALIVE AT THE TIME OF THE PROMISE PASS AWAY LOOK>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
:“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

Even at his trial he told the priests and the council that they too would witness his return Or have you also forgotten this>>>:"you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven"Matthew26: 63, 64.

Now to the dozens of questions you failed to answer.

 I believe I have answered those relevant to the thread -- my thread. And you can believe what the fk you like.

Why don't we let someone else judge who has the better argument here? How about a formal debate?

I am more than happy on this open forum.   But  how about that  you start a thread laying out your belief that Jesus has  retuned to earth as promised in 66 - 70 AD already!   Let us see how much support and agreement you get from the Christian members on the forum.  I should imagine your thread will garner much attention considering most if not all of the theist and some atheist here don't agree with me either . Off you go then. 




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And I gave you quite a few. And most of all, I have shown you that for every cherry picked verse that you believe "proves" Jesus had already returned in 70 AD,   there are as many if not more verses that hundreds of CHRISTIAN organisations can cherry pick from showing Jesus has not returned yet but his arrival is imminent. Would you like more from those many Christian organisations?  Which kind of makes nonsense of your own bullshit, doesn't it?  Face it, you have been out bullshitted by a better outfit that has more knowledge about these ambiguous and  unreliable scriptures than you will ever live to know. 
Bring it on.
See below. And  just to remind you, as unreliable as Wikipedia is I cannot see it as having  any reasons to exaggerating the times the "second coming" has been already predicted   BY CHRISTIANS  since the ascending  AND the fall of Jerusalem.  

Just to list a few of hundreds:

 Sextus Julius Africanus  a Christian  historian as was  Irenaeus who was brought up in a Christian. St Beatus of Liébana he was a christian  , theologian and geographer. Hippolytus of Rome  was one of the most important second-third century Christian theologians.

 Pope Sylvester II   Jan 1000, John Wesley English cleric, theologian, and evangelist, who was a leader of a revival movement within the Church of England known as Methodism predicted 1836,  Catholic Apostolic Church predicted 1901 and the very famous Jehovah's Witnesses who predicted 1914. 
What is it you want me to glean from the links? If you want me to provide yards and yards of links without explaining exactly what I am saying (as you have), we can get into a links war. 


ALL ARE  Christians .  They too must have , just like you, failed to read and understand the bible too.
No, they are not. JW's are not a Christian denomination, and they have been proven to be false in what they said thousands of times. And so what if hundreds of denominations preach a futurist view of eschatology? Do you know the Dispensational View's history (another future view that preaches the Second Coming is still the future)? Please read up on John Darby and C. I. Scofield and how they pushed that view into mainline thinking. 

John Darby - "considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[1] and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[2]"

C.I. Scofield - "as an American theologian, minister, and writer whose best-selling annotated Bible popularized futurism and dispensationalism among fundamentalist Christians."

Unfortunately, Christian denominations bought into this carp.  

What Christian should believe or care about what they think if it does not agree with the teaching of Scripture. The Bible is our blueprint, not some Christian denomination.

Are you seriously including the Mormons here?

Second Coming Of Jesus Christ


As in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man

FOURTEEN SIGNS ANNOUNCING CHRIST'S RETURN
What do you want me to glean from this. Chose a few signs or breakdown the keys from each link that you want e to address. I'm not going to read reams of material. Get specific. For instance, in your last link, they present 14 signs. Shall we discuss each of those signs, one by one, as to whether they were a no-show during the 1st-century?

How about we discuss these signs 14 in light of your claimed no-show? Everything Jesus described in the Olivet Discourse is related to 1st-century Israel and finds its fulfillment in that 1st-century. Each one of the following can be discussed in detail and shown to have taken place. Now, if everything described in the Olivet Discourse has taken place, just as Scripture said it would, then your view on eschatology is definitely wrong. You are trying to understand everything in light of a 21st-century perception. 
 
1. WARS, VIOLENCE, AND LAWLESSNESS - was this a no-show during the 1st-century? 
2. DROUGHT AND FAMINE - I already showed you that Josephus lists famines during the siege. 
3. EARTHQUAKES AND OTHER NATURAL CATASTROPHES - recorded in the NT and noted by historians of the time.
4. DISEASE EPIDEMICS
5. THE RISE OF AN AGGRESSIVE, FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAMIC POWER (What a bazaar interpretation)
6. AN ASCENDANT EUROPEAN UNION SEEKS GLOBAL PRIMACY (Another bazaar interpretation)
7. A POWERFUL RELIGIOUS FIGURE LEADS A RELIGIOUS REVIVAL
8. THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD PREACHED TO ALL NATIONS - Do you know that this is recorded in the NT as already fulfilled in the epistles?
9. FAITH AGAIN BECOMES A MATTER OF LIFE OR DEATH
10. A CRISIS STRIKES JERUSALEM - AD 70. Trying to fit these prophecies into today's culture does a great disservice to the texts themselves.
11. THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION - Again, do you understand this in the light of Scripture and its references to Israel?
12. THE GREAT TRIBULATION—THE COLLAPSE OF THE ENGLISH-SPEAKING NATIONS - The Great Tribulation, another verse applied to these OT people.
13. HEAVENLY SIGNS AND THE DAY OF THE LORD - We already spoke briefly of a couple of those SIGNS recorded by Josephus about the catapult missiles (white stones) flying into the city with talent stones lit on fire by the Romans. What you probably don't understand is that the Mosaic Law prescribed stoning for an unfaithful wife. Do you understand the symbolism there? In Revelation, Israel, and specifically, Jerusalem is likened to a harlot, an unfaithful wife. Here again, the symbolism is that God is giving a writ of divorce to Judah. He is also judging her for her unfaithfulness by the prescribed method of punishment in the OT.  As these stones came flying into the city the one man would cry out, "The Son cometh." He understood the judgment application.  
14. THE SEVEN LAST PLAGUES - Again, plagues against who? Do you understand the curse teaching in Deuteronomy 28? That is a subject we could speak about for a long time when you claim "no-show."

Do you realize this carp is a follow-up from the Herbert W. Armstrong organization and "The World Tomorrow" broadcasts he used to do in the 1980s and 1990s? If you want to get into some of these false teachers, I'm game. I studied some of their literature years ago.





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As I explained, scoffers and mockers were questioning the coming but Peter explains that God is not slow in keeping His promises,

 Nope . Peter was a  the liar and turncoat. When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - and that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER,  that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?   give me a fkn break!
You conveniently pick and choose only what you want to mislead others with when it comes to Scripture.
1. Jesus restored Peter to grace after Peter denied Him three times. 


What did Jesus say to Peter?
And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.

After Peter denied Jesus three times, Jesus restored him to grace.

[ The Love Question ] Now when they had finished breakfast, Jesus *said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He *said to him, “Tend My lambs.”

He *said to him again, a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He *said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.”

He *said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was hurt because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus *said to him, “Tend My sheep.

Peter became one of the leaders of the early church. This is known through Acts, and he was used mightily by the Lord.

2. The trial was preordained by God to take place. The Father set(s) the times. (Every one of those verses in that link proves that God appoints the times.

God appoints apostles. 

And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, and various kinds of tongues.

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
2 Peter1:1 [a]Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

***

You said, "telling us that we should listen to the voice of god," and the Holy Spirit empowers these men to speak God's revelation to humanity. Moses said that God would put His words in the mouth of a prophet.

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet from among their countrymen like you, and I will put My words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them everything that I command him.

 Joseph Smith is not even recognized as a Christian but a false prophet

I agree, as are you. Your own bullshit is totally on par with this fake "prophet". You are no better and have nothing new to say only regurgitate all the  Shite that has been said in the past.
A false prophet is proven that way via the vehicle of Scripture. If what they say does not align with Scripture, then they are not to be believed. Prove so via Scripture. You can't. 
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What did Jesus say to Peter?

He said,  " get ye behind me SATAN!!!!! Matthew 16:23 


What is it you want me to glean from the links?

You asked me to "bring it on",  did you not?

I asked you if you "  Would you like more from those many Christian organisations? " and your reply was , "bring it on".  So now as I have already said, you can either comment on or argue against those organisations that don't agree with you and your belief that the second coming has been, happened and gone.

I don't care what you do with them or glean from them.  It makes absolutely no difference to me. They are  just a few Christian churches/organisations that happen to agree with what I believe and not what you believe.


You need to get it inside that pea of yours that no matter how many times you quote biblical verses that you believe "prove"  you opinions or belief,  that there are as many biblical verses  - according to others CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!! - that "prove" that the second coming hasn't happened yet but is immanent!  Get over it . You resurrected this thread believing you are clever and able to prove something. You haven't proven a single thing? 

I'm not going to read reams of material.

Then don't.  But odd it is that this is exactly what you expect others to do . 


They are there to show you  that they believe opposite to what you believe . You asked for them and you got them. Do what you like with the content, but just like YOU they too produce many biblical verses from scripture that -  according to them -  prove opposite to what you believe and show Jesus has NOT returned. 

 I have said to you many times now that for every biblical verse that you post as "proof"  that Jesus'return had already happened, these CHRISTIAN churches and organisation can do just the same  "proving" his return is imminent but not happened yet. 

AND those Christian religious characters that I posted above have all predicted the second coming and all failed to get it right too, every time:


OBVIOUSLY They too must have , just like you, failed to read and understand the bible as well. 

Tell me, would these Christian clergy predict the coming of Jesus if it had - according only to you - already happened? And where would they get the idea that it didn't happen. yet.  

As I explained, scoffers and mockers were questioning the coming but Peter explains that God is not slow in keeping His promises,

 Nope . Peter was  liar and turncoat. When there are many verses telling us that we should listen to the voice of god,  who is it that we should we listen to? Jesus's own words? OR  PETER a man that tells lies - and that denied even knowing Jesus three times! Luke 22:59-62?  PETER,  that was supposed to be "keeping watch" over Jesus but fell asleep three times! that led to Jesus` arrest, trial and barbaric torturous execution? Matthew 26:40?   give me a fkn break!
You conveniently pick and choose only what you want to mislead others with when it comes to Scripture.

 Nope.  But you have done that many many times on this thread alone. I choose what is extremely relevant to the theme of MY thread. 


What did Jesus say to Peter?

He said,  " get ye behind me SATAN!!!!! Matthew 16:23 




Why don't we let someone else judge who has the better argument here? How about a formal debate?

I am more than happy on this open forum.   But  how about that  you start a thread laying out your belief that Jesus has  retuned to earth as promised in 66 - 70 AD already!   Let us see how much support and agreement you get from the Christian members on the forum.  I should imagine your thread will garner much attention considering most if not all of the theist and some atheist here don't agree with me either . Off you go then. 

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No biblical Christian who has an ounce of sense recognizes the Mormons as brothers in Christ. 
Except other Christian Mormons and perhaps our resident monk, Mopac
As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!

For if anyone thinks that he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

 You claimed Peter was teaching a no-show.

Nope. Again you are putting words into my mouth.  I have claimed that Peter,  the lying turncoat, actually tried to explain away Jesus' no show with the bullshit excuse that to "the Lord"  a generation was a thousands years. And only came up with that shite years after the crucifixion and the population had started to question the promised return..  Its a shame Jesus didn't  mention the " 1,000 years" crap  at the time, isn't it?
From Day 1 you have been teaching that Scripture combined with your interpretation and history teaches a no-show. You include Scripture from 2 Peter as teaching this. 

Here is my Post 59 in context: "I showed how you mistook 2 Peter 3. You claimed Peter was teaching a no-show. I showed that from the text, your claim was invalid." 

From that text (2 Peter 3) Peter was teaching by the scoffers [happy now?], thus Scripture was teaching a no-show. That was the whole point of using that verse. You had a motive. You wanted others to think that Scripture teaches a no-show. He was not teaching that Jesus was a no-show from these verses as you alleged. He was teaching that they were wrong, that God was not slow in keeping His promises but did not want any of the elect to perish because He came earlier than the prescribed time.   

Post 1 - YOU: "Where was he?" [What are you suggesting here?]
2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise.

That is your post and what it says. 

You are suggesting a no-show, saying that people questioned His coming. I told you that Peter set the record straight, that God is not slow in keeping His promises. 

Post 27 - YOU: "Remember Peter had no answer for them did he?" 

He most certainly did. You are misleading the reader once again, and I set the record straight that he DID have an answer. You continually collapse Scripture to suit your purposes. 

See my reply in Post 28.

Post 30 - YOU: "Not a single thing that you have posted goes anywhere in showing that Jesus returned from the dead and appeared to his apostles or anyone, on a cloud or anything resembling as such after the accession."

YOU: "Peter was challenged wasn't he?  But he had no explanation for the no show did he,? So instead just like you he swerved the problem with bullshit : lets see what they said and  Peter's weasley reply."

Again, you claim that Peter had no explanation for the no-show, thus from such logic, you must be teaching that Peter taught a no-show. 

This post:
ME: "You claimed Peter was teaching a no-show."
YOU: "Nope." 

Post 30 continued: YOU:
"They asked;
“Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”2Peter 3:4

Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise. They didn't ask because he had returned, did they you fool.   They asked because he hadn't!       And everything went on the same.  

What was Peter's BS response to them:

8 " But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day".

Odd it is that Jesus forgot to mention this thousand years when he promised the generation living at the time of the promise.

Odd then isn't it that Jesus forgot to mention they wouldn't pass away because they would all live for another thousand years before they all witnessed his return. 

No matter how many verses you post here, trying to tell us that Jesus did return  , they won't alter what the scriptures actually state  and only go further to shown your BS is full of holes.
Again, you are trying to teach everyone that Scripture teaches a no-show by selective citing verses and collapsing the context.

Post 34 - The thousand years explained. 


Post 60 - "Peter's verse about "scoffers" only comes years after the people started to wise up and ask where was Jesus."

***

PS. I missed your Post 48 because you failed to include my name in the Receiver's box. I ask that you would do so in the future so I get notified to have replied to me. I will have something to say on that too.

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PGA2.0, vying to be the number 1 RUNAWAY from biblical discussion and taking this position away from fauxlaw,

As you stated to me "Put your money where your mouth is", and when I accepted your challenge, and then subsequently you became SCARED and RAN AWAY from me in this post/link herewith:  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5766-a-problem-for-the-ontological-argument?page=4&post_number=94. Are you going to be like your equally Bible inept FAUXLAW and runaway again? LOL

Like Stephen stated, create a new thread upon this topic where I, Stephen, and many others will easily rake you over the hot coals relating to your outright Satanic and comical faith of Preterism!  Or, are you going to pee your pants again and run away again from your ungodly faith as shown in the link above?  Either way you are FU*KED in front of Jesus and the membership, that will be a given, understood?!


PGA2.0, well little Satanic boy, your decision is?


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@Stephen
@PGA2.0



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PGA2.0, the Satanic "Preterist" rewriter of the Bible at the cost of calling Jesus a LIAR, therefore committing the Unpardonable Sin!:

YOUR CONTRADICTING AND HYPOCRITICAL QUOTE #87 RELATIVE TO MORMONS REWRITING THE BIBLE!!!!!:  "As we have said before, even now I say again: if anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! (Galatians 1:9)

In the same manner of the verse in question above, you and your Satanic faith of being a Hell Bound Preterist is doing the same in what you accuse the Mormons are doing!  H-E-L-L-O, ANYBODY HOME TODAY? OBVIOUSLY NOT! LOL

OMG, at your embarrassing expense once again, open this link and pay particular attention to the circled passages that you and your disgusting division of Christianity of Preterism has done to Jesus' inspired words within the Bible:   https://ibb.co/55Vq3SJ


PGA2.0, once again you are guilty of Jesus' inspired words: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves." (Matthew 23:15)

PGA2.0 = hypocrite extraordinaire!  


NEXT?

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@Stephen

And you keep forgetting Jesus' actual words according to the scripture.>>>>> :“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28. That will be those " alive and standing " at the time of the promise to you and in any language including ancient Greek!
I haven't forgotten them. I have addressed those verses about four times now. John would have been one of those, according to church tradition, who lived to see the evidence that confirmed that Jesus was sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven and coming with judgment. 

Even at his trial he told the priests and the council that they too would witness his return Or have you also forgotten this>>>:"you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven"Matthew26: 63, 64.
Addressed earlier as well.


What did Jesus mean when He said He would come in His Father's glory, with His angels, and that He would give everyone their due recompense?

You don't get this at all do you? 
I get it. I doubt you do. 

That shite is for you to explain, ( if it is at all relevant to the thread).
I already explained it to you. 

It is not for me to support your own mental theory or beliefs about Jesus already having returned as promised. So you explain it and I will read your explanation and any relevance you believe it has to this thread. 
The key is that He said He would come in the Father's glory, so you have to understand what that is. You do not understand what the OT taught us about His glory. 

and in the morning you will see the glory of the Lord, for He hears your grumblings against the Lord; and what are we, that you grumble against us?”

How did they see the glory of the Lord? Did they see Him physically? No, because God is Spirit. They saw His glory manifest in the cloud. 

And it came about, as Aaron spoke to the entire congregation of the sons of Israel, that they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the Lord appeared in the cloud.

His glory appeared in the CLOUD.

The glory of the Lord settled on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it for six days; and on the seventh day He called to Moses from the midst of the cloud.

As He called Moses from the mist of the cloud, so in the NT He calls His Son, Jesus, from within the cloud.

[ The Glory of the Lord ] Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

And Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud had settled on it, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.
It came about, however, when the congregation had assembled against Moses and Aaron, that they turned toward the tent of meeting, and behold, the cloud covered it and the glory of the Lord appeared.

so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord.

so that the priests could not rise to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of God.

then the Lord will create over the entire area of Mount Zion and over her assemblies a cloud by day, and smoke, and the brightness of a flaming fire by night; for over all the glory will be a canopy.

He said to Me, “You are My Servant, Israel, In whom I will show My glory.”

So they will fear the name of the Lord from the west And His glory from the rising of the sun, For He will come like a rushing stream Which the wind of the Lord drives.

[ God’s Anger over Israel ] How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He has hurled The glory of Israel from heaven to earth, And has not remembered His footstool In the day of His anger.

Like the appearance of the rainbow in the clouds on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the surrounding radiance. Such was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell on my face and heard a voice speaking.

Then the glory of the Lord went up from the cherub to the threshold of the temple, and the temple was filled with the cloud, and the courtyard was filled with the brightness of the glory of the Lord.

“And I will place My glory among the nations; and all the nations will see My judgment which I have executed, and My hand which I have laid on them.

And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

Christ Jesus is coming in the Father's glory. The sign is the clouds.

[ The Judgment ] “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.

And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

IMO, power and glory signifies two things, judgment with magesty and honour.

shouting: “Blessed is the King, the One who comes in the name of the Lord; Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”

And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to come into His glory?”

The same glory He shared with the Father before the universe began is the same glory that the Father manifest in the OT when His presence was experienced in the cloud.

Jesus *said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”

How did they see the glory of the Lord? They saw it in the cloud, and in the fire. His presence went before them.

And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed.

That is the glory that Isreal experienced once again in the OT Shekinah cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night. 

Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

When Christ ascends into heaven (Acts 1) the witnesses see the glory of the Father in the cloud that takes Jesus out of their sight, and that is how He will come again, in the cloud of glory.

Beyond question, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Jesus was taken up in glory, and that is how the disciples saw Him go into heaven in Acts 1, out of sight with the cloud.

who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to Him!”

But while he was saying this, a cloud formed and began to overshadow them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.

Again, they entered the presence of God. 

[ The Ascension ] And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were watching, and a cloud took Him up, out of their sight.

They saw the cloud take Him out of their sight. The cloud of the glory of the Lord God took Him out of their sight. (1 Timothy 3:16)

Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

[ The Angel and the Little Scroll ] I saw another strong angel coming down from heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was on his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire;

Again reference to God's glory. 

And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.

[ The Harvest ] Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.

And another angel came out of the temple, calling out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.”

Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.

Judgment. Clouds and judgment.
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@Stephen

Okay, commitment! You say 1st-century.

 Stop putting words into my mouth. What I say is that Jesus hasn't returned on a cloud after resurrecting form the dead and stinking in his rich friends  tomb for days and then descending from "heaven".
That was not the original context. The original context was about the generation the text referred to, a 1st-century generation.

You are doing what you do all the time; you snip out the parts of something that you don't want others to see, collapse the context and make it a pretext. Here is the greater context. You keep twisting things around. Here is the greater context:
What generation does the text infer? Answer that

 I have already. Jesus  also says the those alive at the time that he made his promise return will see him return. 

Or have you forgotten this >> :“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

Even at his trial he told the priests and the council that they too would witness his return Or have you also forgotten this>>>:"you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven"Matthew26: 63, 64.
Okay, commitment! You say 1st-century. You say that the text teaches the 1st-century, and that is correct judging from the texts themselves.
Are you aware of what you are writing? Those at His trial were in the 1st-century; those He said would not taste death was 1st-century. Thus, the text teaches 1st-century. Now you backtrack as to say it does not. 

MILLIONS !!!! of Christians don't believe that his return hasn't happened at all , "yet"  but his arrival is immanent.
I already covered the imminent part. What some Christians believe does not always line up with what Scripture teaches. 

So, once again, what are the signs that Jesus said would happen in that generation?

Already covered and again this was explained earlier when Jesus to his disciples said of the signs to look out for.. I mentioned this is my very first post. But you are so so far up your own arse that you didn't bother to read it or have simply forgotten what I wrote. Either way, here it is again... 
Again, your ad hominem is not cool. Do you think it is funny or mucho? I have refrained from calling you derogatory names like "up your arse" or "stupid" like you have done with me. 

POST #1  Stephen Added01.30.21 06: Wrote: 

Jesus then goes further telling them which “signs” to look out for but this time including the whole “generation” and ending again with:

“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened “Matthew24:25-34.
Mark13:26-30 says the same as does Luke21:27-32. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS  on top of those further promises about returning before those ALIVE AT THE TIME OF THE PROMISE PASS AWAY LOOK>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
:“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom”. Matthew16: 27-28.

Even at his trial he told the priests and the council that they too would witness his return Or have you also forgotten this>>>:"you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven"Matthew26: 63, 64.
What is a sign? Here are a few definitions that might apply to that context:

2: a mark having a conventional meaning and used in place of words or to represent a complex notion
6a: something material or external that stands for or signifies something spiritual
b: something indicating the presence or existence of something else signs of success a sign of the times

Something material or eternal that stands for or signifies something spiritual. 

And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.

Now to the dozens of questions you failed to answer.

 I believe I have answered those relevant to the thread -- my thread. And you can believe what the fk you like.
Selective confirmation bias. 

Why don't we let someone else judge who has the better argument here? How about a formal debate?
I am more than happy on this open forum.   But  how about that  you start a thread laying out your belief that Jesus has  retuned to earth as promised in 66 - 70 AD already!   Let us see how much support and agreement you get from the Christian members on the forum.  I should imagine your thread will garner much attention considering most if not all of the theist and some atheist here don't agree with me either . Off you go then. 
He returned in AD 70.

I started such a thread before. The participants largely avoided the issues.

I'm trying to hold you to the commitment you made. You said Jesus was a no-show. I'm showing others that you do not understand Scripture.

If everything He said would happen happened, what makes you think He did not return? It is because you have a fixed notion of what it means that every eye will see Him. You have brought into the common take on this verse not understanding what it means to come in the Father's glory, and the Father came in CLOUDS of glory. His presence was felt when the cloud appeared. 

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@Stephen

Why don't we let someone else judge who has the better argument here? How about a formal debate?

I am more than happy on this open forum.   
How does a formal debate happen on an open thread? Do you want me to issue the formal challenge?
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@PGA2.0

What did Jesus say to Peter?
He said,  " get ye behind me SATAN!!!!! Matthew 16:23 


He returned in AD 70.I started such a thread before. The participants largely avoided the issues.

Have you!?  Or is that more bullshit?  You have started  only five threads total on this forum. Four of which are directed to the person.  Two of those were directed and personalised towards me. How you got away with breaking that rule puzzles me to this day when the Brother was banned for simply quoting someones biographical profile that was already available to anyone on this forum.. And the fifth is to do with morality.

I cannot locate your thread alleging that  Jesus had already returned  to earth as promised in 66-70 AD some 35+ years after once laying  dead , rotting and stinking for three days and then ascending into heaven,  as you claim.  Also I see no thread of yours claiming historian Flavius Josephus describing Jesus' return as you claim, either. So when you are ready,  maybe you can resurrect your old thread for us all to look at, read ,  scrutinize and question. In your own time sunshine.


The key is that He said He would come in the Father's glory, so you have to understand what that is.


And how does Flavius Josephus " describe it in much detail " #26  as you claim he does? And you have also already told me that - #25 >>>  "TO YOUR MIND"coming in the father's glory  can mean two things" -    none of which prove a damn thing.  Why not three things or four or five or five hundred!!!!!?  that will certainly leave no room for doubt, would it!!! Have you even  considered that "YOUR MIND" has been tricking you!?

Do you want me to issue the formal challenge?

 You must keep missing or misunderstanding  what to any one else it plain English would suggest that you start your own thread about your own belief that Jesus has already returned , been and gone again, in 66-70 AD. What do you not grasp about that. I have suggested this to you FOUR FKN TIMES NOW!!!! 


I will bold and underline it for you this time  so you cannot miss it!



 don't we let someone else judge who has the better argument here? How about a formal debate?

I am more than happy to be in conversation discussing my questions and opinions on this open forum. 

 But  how about that  you start a thread laying out your belief that Jesus has  retuned to earth as promised in 66 - 70 AD already!   Let us see how much support and agreement you get from the Christian members on the forum.  I should imagine your thread will garner much attention considering most if not all of the theist and some atheist here don't agree with me either . Off you go then. 

Why have you failed to create your own thread on your own belief that "to your mind" Jesus had already returned  to earth as promised in 66-70 AD some 40 years after being dead for three days and then ascending into heaven,  as you claim.


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@PGA2.0


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PGA2.0, the Satanic "Preterist" rewriter of the Bible at the cost of calling Jesus a LIAR, therefore committing the Unpardonable Sin!:

As if the following posts of mine directed to your blatant biblical stupidity aren’t embarrassing enough for you in front of Jesus and the membership, then you have yet to create a thread upon said stupidity like Stephen has proposed to you!  Why? SCARED of the outcome? LOL



AGAIN, like Stephen stated, create a new thread upon this topic where I, Stephen, and many others will easily rake you over the hot coals relating to your outright Satanic and comical faith of Preterism!  Or, are you going to pee your pants again and run away from your Preterism?   Either way you are FU*KED in front of Jesus and the membership, that will be a given, understood?!


PGA2.0, well little Satanic “Prety boy,” is your decision is to RUN as usual, or actually find your “big boy” pants and engage with a new thread that Jesus already had the 2nd coming that throws out 1/3 of the Bible as shown in the embarrassing following link in calling Jesus a LIAR:   https://ibb.co/55Vq3SJ


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@Stephen

What did Jesus say to Peter?
He said,  " get ye behind me SATAN!!!!! Matthew 16:23

After that? He restored Him to grace and forgave him.

John 21
The Love Question
15 Now when they had finished breakfast, Jesus *said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you [e]love Me more than these?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I [f]love You.” He *said to him, “Tend My lambs.” 16 He *said to him again, a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you [g]love Me?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I [h]love You.” He *said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17 He *said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you [i]love Me?” Peter was [j]hurt because He said to him the third time, “Do you [k]love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I [l]love You.” Jesus *said to him, “Tend My sheep.
Our Times Are in His Hand
18 Truly, truly I tell you, when you were younger, you used to put on your belt and walk wherever you wanted; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will put your belt on you, and bring you where you do not want to go.” 19 Now He said this, indicating by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had said this, He *said to him, “Follow Me!”
20 Peter turned around and *saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them—the one who also had leaned back on His chest at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who is betraying You?” 21 So Peter, upon seeing him, *said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” 22 Jesus *said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” 23 Therefore this [m]account went out among the brothers, that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”

So, Peter denied Jesus three times, and the Lord restored him by testing his love with those three questions. He also told Peter how he would die and that if He chose John would remain alive until His coming. Church tradition has it that John did live to witness the second coming, for he lived past Jerusalem's destruction in AD70. 

He returned in AD 70.I started such a thread before. The participants largely avoided the issues.
Have you!?  Or is that more bullshit?  You have started  only five threads total on this forum. Four of which are directed to the person.  Two of those were directed and personalised towards me. How you got away with breaking that rule puzzles me to this day when the Brother was banned for simply quoting someones biographical profile that was already available to anyone on this forum.. And the fifth is to do with morality.


Well, I was not aware of such a policy until you made such a big fuss. Very gracious of you. You post thread after thread that ad hominem Christians and mock Christianity, calling us stupid and other derogatory names, and because we question these threads, it really gets your goat.  You even blocked me once. I'm glad to see that you have a forgiving nature! 

I cannot locate your thread alleging that  Jesus had already returned  to earth as promised in 66-70 AD some 35+ years after once laying  dead , rotting and stinking for three days and then ascending into heaven,  as you claim. 


I did include evidence in my two threads that addressed you. 


Also I see no thread of yours claiming historian Flavius Josephus describing Jesus' return as you claim, either. So when you are ready,  maybe you can resurrect your old thread for us all to look at, read ,  scrutinize and question. In your own time sunshine.
The greater context was the Second Coming and all the prophecies being fulfilled with the judgment spoken of by both Jesus and Josephus. What does 'it' refer to? 'It' refers to the judgment to make myself clear. Josephus describes the judgment of Matthew 23-26 in detail in his writings. Although he does not believe Jesus is the Messiah, he does mention the coming of the Son when the talent stones were slamming into Jerusalem. 

Here is the greater context:
Even at his trial he told the priests and the council :“you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.“” Matthew26: 63, 64.     And the no show hadn’t gone nu-noticed by the people either:
The High Priest definitely understood that the Son of Man was seated at the right hand of the Father during the judgment in AD 70. Josephus describes it in much detail. I recommend you read it to familiarize yourself with what actually happened. All the signs of Matthew 24 are present. In fact, you can find many of the fulfillments happening during the forty-year transition. Peter and Paul speak of the Gospel going to the ends of the earth during this period and before they were put to death by Nero between AD 64 and AD 68. Revelation describes the harlot, which is Jerusalem, and they also describe the kings or caesars, of which Nero is the one who is.

I did not claim Josephus believed Jesus returned. Still, he certainly had references to the Son, like the one I referenced about the stones being pelted against the city and the reference to "the Son is coming." What Josephus confirms, perhaps unbeknownst to him, is that what Jesus predicted in the Olivet Discourse came to pass, including many things Jesus promised for His Second Coming. What do Matthew 23-24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 all have in common? They all are the author's recounting of the Olivet Discourse, the judgment of Israel, specifically Judah. 

Luke 21:20-24 (NASB)
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then [a]recognize that her desolation is near. 21 Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside [b]the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter [c]the city; 22 because these are days of punishment, so that all things which have been written will be fulfilled. 23 Woe to those women who are pregnant, and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the [d]land, and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 

Not only did Jesus say that when Jerusalem is surrounded, this time of judgment (these days of punishment) was to fulfill all that is written, but also speaks of great tribulation upon the LAND and the PEOPLE.

Josephus had a bird-eye view of Jerusalem's siege, and he too knew it was a judgment from God. He makes the point of great tribulation on these people just as Jesus had.  

The key is that He said He would come in the Father's glory, so you have to understand what that is.
And how does Flavius Josephus " describe it in much detail " #26  as you claim he does? And you have also already told me that - #25 >>>  "TO YOUR MIND"coming in the father's glory  can mean two things" -    none of which prove a damn thing.  Why not three things or four or five or five hundred!!!!!?  that will certainly leave no room for doubt, would it!!! Have you even  considered that "YOUR MIND" has been tricking you!?

When I answered, my Post's 25 and 26 were one post that the thread would not accept because of length, so I broke them up at the point I did, but you can see from Post 25 that I was speaking of the judgment.

Post 32 and Post 33 are where I documented loads of Josephus quotes. 

To my mind is a specific quote, not adlib for anything you choose to make it as you did below. Yes, two things above all others, judgment and reward as referenced in the words 'power' and 'glory.' His coming was to fulfill both. He would judge the wicked and reward those who are just as many of His parables laid out in words like separating the 'wheat from the chaff,' or the 'sheep from the goats.'  So, I have good justification for stating what I stated. I could reference many verses that support such a view or reward and punishment, power and glory. 

Do you want me to issue the formal challenge?
 You must keep missing or misunderstanding  what to any one else it plain English would suggest that you start your own thread about your own belief that Jesus has already returned , been and gone again, in 66-70 AD. What do you not grasp about that. I have suggested this to you FOUR FKN TIMES NOW!!!! 


Make yourself more clear, then. You keep berating me for your inability to make yourself clear, and I noticed you use profanities when speaking to Christians. Exchange is to investigate and try to understand what the other person means. 

I am cross-examining your claims of a no-show. That concerns whether or not Jesus returned when He said He would and the nature of that return. 

I will bold and underline it for you this time  so you cannot miss it!

 don't we let someone else judge who has the better argument here? How about a formal debate?

I am more than happy to be in conversation discussing my questions and opinions on this open forum. 
 But  how about that  you start a thread laying out your belief that Jesus has  retuned to earth as promised in 66 - 70 AD already!   Let us see how much support and agreement you get from the Christian members on the forum.  I should imagine your thread will garner much attention considering most if not all of the theist and some atheist here don't agree with me either . Off you go then. 
Why have you failed to create your own thread on your own belief that "to your mind" Jesus had already returned  to earth as promised in 66-70 AD some 40 years after being dead for three days and then ascending into heaven,  as you claim.
To my mind or what the authors of Scripture actually taught?

Why would I create my own thread when I am addressing the claim of a no-show? He showed, just not in the way you think. He presented Himself before the Father in heaven and before myriads upon myriads of saints. That seating at His Father's side would be understood in the judgment that He warned them of repeatedly in AD 27-30. 

And to clear up your view of what I said, He was crucified, died, rose again from the dead three days later, spent 40 days with the disciples, then ascended into heaven to be with the Father and returned in judgment 40 years later on these OT people.

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He returned in AD 70.I started such a thread before. The participants largely avoided the issues.
Have you!?  Or is that more bullshit?  You have started  only five threads total on this forum. Four of which are directed to the person.  Two of those were directed and personalised towards me. How you got away with breaking that rule puzzles me to this day when the Brother was banned for simply quoting someones biographical profile that was already available to anyone on this forum.. And the fifth is to do with morality.


Well, I was not aware of such a policy until you made such a big fuss.

 I am not kicking up anything. I was simply pointing out the double standards. The rules are clear, No " calling out threads" i.e direct to the person. I didn't complain or flag your bullshit.  


You post thread after thread that ad hominem Christians and mock Christianity,..........us stupid
Stop with the victim-hood. I think there are Christians that are calling you stupid too to believe that you believe that you have evidence that Jesus kept his promise and had already returned in  AD66-70. Like them,  I have seen no evidence of a return especially in the light that millions of Christian believe Jesus return is imminent NOW!!!

 and because we question these threads,

Nope. You can question away. 



 it really gets your goat. 

Nope. I think the reverse is more likely.


You even blocked me once.

I did and I will block you again if you keep posting reams and reams of bullshit that  you believe proves and upholds your believe that Jesus kept his promise to return and had done so in AD66-70.


I'm glad to see that you have a forgiving nature! 

Don't hold your breath everyone has their limitations ......... including Jesus. 



 (A)  He returned in AD 70.I started such a thread before. The participants largely avoided the issues.

I cannot locate your thread alleging that  Jesus had already returned  to earth as promised in 66-70 AD some 35+ years after once laying  dead , rotting and stinking for three days and then ascending into heaven,  as you claim. 
I did include evidence in my two threads that addressed you. 

Nope!  Again you tell lies. You said that you had already started a thread on the subject of Jesus return in AD 66-70 ( See (A) above in BOLD,) when both those threads clearly show that you haven't. They were of different subject matter altogether.  They were about me and what I post and more whining and victim-hood etc..  and they both show too that you couldn't support your claims on both those threads, either!   And a quick read shown me you got roasted.


Make yourself more clear, then. 

 What is  it that is so hard for you to  understand about a simple  request to " create a thread of your own on the subject of Jesus return in AD 66-70" ?

And to clear up your view of what I said, He was crucified, died, rose again from the dead three days later, spent 40 days with the disciples, then ascended into heaven to be with the Father and returned in judgment 40 years later on these OT people.
Yes I understand your claim. I don't believe it.  And neither do millions of Christians around the world.  Are they stupid for believing Jesus` return is imminent NOW!!! ?


I did not claim Josephus believed Jesus returned. 

Oh stop it!!!  You  have claimed that Josephus witnessed Jesus' return  on a cloud as promised and  " describe it in much detail " #26  <<<<<<<<simply not true is it.

You claimed that the balls of fire catapulted at the  city of Jerusalem in AD 70 were Jesus coming on a cloud.

Flavius Josephus mentions no raising from the dead of Jesus called the Christ and making a show on a cloud and sitting anywhere , either.     Stop making things up. Is it any wonder you are called "stupid".

I am cross-examining your claims of a no-show.

Yes I know. The bible says he hasn't and didn't return for those LIVING at the time of the promise to witness. 

And when the population started to wake up realising there had been no return as promised because the people of the time of THE  promise HAS  PASSED AWAY,  they confronted Peter about it

 2Peter 3:4 “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”

Yet even allowing for all those Jews alive at the time of the promise and living another hundred + years, Jesus simply failed to show and keep his promise.


But what was the bullshit response they got from the biblically  PROVEN  unreliable and untrustworthy lying turncoat and betrayer and  apologists Peter?

They got this load of old fanny;>>> But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 2 Peter3:8. 

Jesus mentions nothing of this "1,000years"  at the time he made the promise , so YOU also have prove and explain how many people of the time of the promise went on to live a thousand years? Don't you!   Considering THE BIBLE tells us! >>> 

Genesis 6:3 And the Lord said, " My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years".

Off you trot now. 



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PGA2.0, the Satanic "Preterist" rewriter of the Bible at the cost of calling Jesus a LIAR, therefore committing the Unpardonable Sin!:

Like Stephen keeps reiterating, when are you going to start a thread upon the topic of Jesus' 2nd coming in AD 66-70?  SCARED, or are you just tired of peeing in your pants to even think about starting said thread, and the embarrassing outcome that you will have?  LOL

Jesus is watching you (Hebrews 4:13) RUN AWAY from what you "think" is the correct solution and division of Christianity, but it is at your laughable expense and always will be by swallowing the fraudulent Preterest faith!


Meantime, you are still embarrassing yourself further by running away from my post to you herewith: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5766-a-problem-for-the-ontological-argument?page=4&post_number=94


START THE THREAD, OR ACCEPT THE FACT THAT STEPHEN OWNS YOU UPON THIS TOPIC, UNDERSTOOD PRETERIST FOOL?

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PGA2.0, the Satanic "Preterist" rewriter of the Bible at the cost of calling Jesus a LIAR, therefore committing the Unpardonable Sin!: [......................]START THE THREAD, OR ACCEPT THE FACT THAT STEPHEN OWNS YOU UPON THIS TOPIC,

He won't be doing that anytime soon I'm afraid, Brother.  For all of his whining and moaning and  posting reams upon reams of biblical verses from Revelation in particular he doesn't seem to have noticed a few things.

He is not a great thinker is he, Brother?  PGA2.0`s belief that the Christ had already kept his promise to return on a cloud in AD 66-70 I am sure can be debunked with just one example of many from scripture itself. 

Take for instance  2 Thessalonians 2: 3- "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;".

 Do you see that right there Brother? 

 
Falling away from what?  The facts are that  there  were no established christian church to "fall away" from and not a single Christian was involved in the siege of Jerusalem. 

Jesus had his Jewish support from all quarters. which included rich and influential men and women supporters of the cause.  Men/women on the inside of the Jewish authorities and serving in Herod's palaces.  Women supporting them of their substances, massive support  from the heartland of the zealots in Galilee, but does he ever once call them "Christians"? Answer to that is NO! Not a single author of the four gospels ever mentions the word  - Christian.

So again, what was there a falling away from? When did the great Christian apostacy happen? It didn't . In fact the Christian church grew massively and eventually became the state religion of Rome!  Does that sound like a great "falling away from the CHRISTIAN church, Brother?

And for all the whaling and stamping of feet  coming from PGA2.0, it is interesting too that like the many different Christian sects can't  a agree with one part of scripture or another, preterist can't actually agree among themselves  concerning the time second coming.  

They will have it that virtually the whole of the apocalypse was fulfilled by A.D. 70 with  the invading Roman armies and the fall of Jerusalem, while others have it that the promised return happened with the fall of Rome A.D. 476! 

Brother, if  Revelation and  Matthew 24:7 and Luke 21:11 are ever to fit a time and place in human history then today would be that time. IMHO.
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Stephen,

  • I bow to your superior and irrefutable knowledge upon this topic, and as seen, so does the Bible ignorant fraudulent Preterist PGA2.0!  Since with you I am preaching to the choir, the favorite insidious argument among the Satanic preterists is that the book of Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, and hence the book must have been fulfilled in A.D. 70 when Rome overran Jerusalem. However, Irenaeus who claimed the book of Revelation was written at the close of the reign of Domitian ( A.D. 81—96) and Victorinus confirmed this date in the third century, as did Eusebius (263-340), then since the book was written AFTER AD 70, it could hardly have been referring to events that would be fulfilled in A.D. 70!  2+2=4. oil and water don't mix, and the Satanic Preterist fool PGA2.0 continues the fraud of his faith!

Many futurists note that key events described in the book of Revelation simply did not occur in A.D. 70. For example, in A.D. 70 “a third of mankind” was not killed, as predicted in Revelation 9:18. There was no “every living creature in the sea died” as predicted in Revelation 16:3! In order to explain these texts, the Satanic Preterists must resort to turning themselves into pretzels since they did not happen literally, period!

Preterism is just another of many Satanic DIVISIONS of Christianity where the irony is that they all cannot be correct at the same time when they blatantly contradict each other in their beliefs, and where it shows Jesus to be questionable to say the least.  This is one reason that I only read from the 1611 King James Bible and where I have to accept its disturbing outcomes at times regarding my serial killer Jesus, because who am I to rewrite his spoken inspired words like the Hell Bound PGA2.0 does?


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