Republicans Gonna Republican

Author: Danielle
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#61
Greyparrot
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@Theweakeredge
Well, we know how many guns are in America and we know how many deaths due to guns. Or are you ignoring all that?

The vast majority of guns that exist in America are not used to kill people.

Would you like to debate that resolution?
#62
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@Greyparrot
What? I conceded that point, soooo many posts ago, there is literally no point to it, as it is a misnomer. What we should be focusing on - are the vast majority of guns (88%) that are unregistered, which are either being used illegally or not used.... that was my entire point. You keep on talking about this percentage of total guns to total population, but not everyone could actually use their gun to kill people, therefore the actual number you would want to look at is total number of murderers to their weapon of choice.... and that number is pretty high in the camp of guns, as I showed earlier. You can keep on with this one number, that I already agreed with waay back, that is actually irrelevant to the topic, or you can actually engage in the arguments. 
#63
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@Theweakeredge
 You keep on talking about this percentage of total guns to total population,

No, it's the total guns to total deaths by gun. 

but not everyone could actually use their gun to kill people

Why not?

#64
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@Greyparrot
Why not? Because it's illegal... thats why, but the entire "protecting themselves" thing, while it is true in some regards, its also true that you don't need a gun to protect yourself, at least not some of the guns. The minority of guns owners use them legally, a.k.a, the 12% that are actually registered, well, so we assume. The other 88% use them illegally, and I've already explained it, let's stop pretending like you didn't just skip out 90 of my argument. "Total gun deaths to gun" is a total misnomer as well, which I pointed out, the comparison I was trying to get you to see was that the relative number of people murdered is muuch lower than the total population, therefore of course guns, which are manufactured on masse, are more than the kill rate with them.  But hey, you actually responded to two things this time, improvement, how about you respond to the entire argument now?
#65
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@TheMorningsStar
You cannot both increase the amount everyone gets from $600 to $2000 and NOT cut out a bunch of the bloat/pork in the Omnibus Spending Bill, doing so would cause a massive economic disaster.

  Morning Star, what sort of disaster are you thinking of ?   It seems to me nobody in Congress, Democrat or Republican, cares about the deficit or borrowing money to spend.  They both borrow without reservation.

  What disaster do you mean ?  Just put it on the tab like we've done without giving it a second thought for the past 40 years (except Clinton's second term).
#66
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@AddledBrain
Borrow from who?

Who sends the debt collector round?

The World is about $280 trillion in debt to somebody.....Martians perhaps.

Sorry......Make that 281....No 282....No 283.

Maybe debt is an essential nonsense....But nonetheless a nonsense.
#67
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@Theweakeredge
Why not? Because it's illegal.

Are you 100 percent sure about that?

What is the exact federal law that requires one to register a non-NFA firearm?

How about any state law that requires a non-NFA firearm to be registered?

I live in one of the most backward liberal states and yet gun owners still are not required to register a handgun.
Handguns of course you well know are used in the vast majority of killings.
#68
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@Greyparrot
"Firearm registration laws require individuals to record their ownership of a firearm with a designated law enforcement agency. These laws enable law enforcement to identify, disarm, and prosecute violent criminals and people illegally in possession of firearms."


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#69
Danielle
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@Greyparrot
They don't have a problem owning a Honda Civic. And it kills more people than guns do.

Guns and cars are not exactly comparable, but if you want to make that point you'll have to note it requires passing a test and renewing a license + other government regulation to be able to drive a car. 

Lol at your comment telling someone to "stop arguing other things with the wind." Don't worry, you will always be the #1 best bringer upper of red herrings and other fallacies in my book <3 

I maintain Democrats are not individualists and who knows where the GOP stands on anything (economic) going forward.
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#70
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@ethang5
This thread is looking to discuss whether or not the GOP will retain a populist lean post Trump, or go back to their pro capitalism rhetoric. Your jabs at Democrats don't have anything to do with that question. Do you have an opinion on the topic at hand?  

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#71
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@ILikePie5
My feelings on AOC are pretty complicated. I think most of her economic proposals are fairy tales straight off Santa's wish list and I resent her for that, but I think she is good for the political landscape  -- kinda like Trump but with a brain and soul. I like that she upset the status quo and rode a wave of grassroots support to unseat a bland, old, white Republican to represent the Bronx. I like that she's a spitfire and takes no shit from anyone, especially the Establishment. I like that she refuses to kiss the party ring and get in line. I like how snarky she is. I like that she peeled back the curtain on how several aspects of representative onboarding works. I like that she's in touch with her constituents and utilizes social media to connect. I like that she's willing to push the envelope on socially progressive issues, much to the dismay of her eggshell-walking peers and superiors in the party. I love that she's a young, working class woman of color who was able to make her American dream real. I love how she's inspiring millions of young people around the country to get involved in politics and activism. I love how strong she stands in the face of immeasurable hate, threats, bullying, and criticism. I honestly can't imagine going from a 20-something year old bartender to possibly the second most discussed figure in all American politics virtually overnight. She's a total brick wall and I admire that a lot. 

What Schumer brings to the table is experience and subsequent foresight. He has a damn near impossible task of maintaining strong party unity in a caucus with a very wide range of political views. I don't think people grasp how difficult it is for him and Nancy to achieve that. Chuck knows that you have to compromise to be successful in Washington. He knows you have to leverage relationships and favors. I'm not sure AOC's politically savvy enough to be effective in that role, but I can see her being a future asset to the Dems. Schumer's gone left over the years so they're pretty  aligned on the issues anyway.  I would probably vote for her just because she's younger and I like that. I'm not even sure you should be eligible to run for office past 66 years of age and he's 70. But who's to say I would vote for a Democrat for Senate? Not sure. I didn't last time. 
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#72
Danielle
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*Edit: I meant to say AOC unseated a bland, old white incumbent (not Republican) to represent the Bronx. 
#73
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@Danielle
It’s just for the primaries. Just like how I voted for Bernie in the Texas Democratic Primary for President 
#74
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@zedvictor4
victor, make no mistake, this is a real debt.  It's money the US owes but, Congress, Republicans and Democrats alike, don't seem to be concerned about it.  The only time politicians are worried about our debt is when the other Party is in office.  When their own guys are in office, they spend like drunken sailors and put it on the tab.

I have been railing about our out-of-control debt for years.  No one is concerned, as I am.  Indeed, every time a Republican gets in they cut taxes, putting us more and more in debt.  If they were concerned about our debt they would make some effort to balance the budget.

If they aren't worried about it, I have no reason to be worried about it.  It certainly seems like irresponsible management to me but, Congress will have spent over $5 trillion dollars to bolster the economy this year and next, due to the COVID virus.  Where did that money come from ?  They put it on the "card".  There's no reason to examine our spending when politicians, who we can't seem to control, aren't worried about it.
#75
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@Danielle
Lol and I guess wanting to keep private insurance is also "collective"


Joe Biden was the strongest candidate for protecting private insurance, and it's one of the main reasons why he won the primary with individualist Democrats.

This thread is looking to discuss whether or not the GOP will retain a populist lean post Trump, or go back to their pro capitalism rhetoric. 
By "populist" do you mean anti-crony establishment?

By "pro-capitalism" do you mean pro-crony capitalism?
#76
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@Theweakeredge
Firearm registration laws require,,,

Which law requires me to register a handgun? Pick a state...any state.

#77
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@Greyparrot
You see, the entire point of saying "88% of guns are owned without registration" is to say that you can't actually keep up with the majority of guns, except for the high high rates of crime reported with guns... the entire act of, quote:

"Laws requiring gun owners to register their firearms ensure gun owner accountability and help law enforcement solve crimes and disarm criminals. Despite the clear advantages inherent in registration laws, few states have such laws on the books—and some prohibit them outright."

Was my point. The large percentage of unregistered guns, with the high crime rate and high shooting rate in america? Hmmm

#78
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@Theweakeredge
What laws? There are laws to register NFA guns...but the vast majority of guns like handguns do not need to be registered in almost all states.
Would you like to debate this? I can set up a resolution for you.

Fun fact while researching this: California has the toughest gun laws; however, you can own an unregistered gun as long as you never take it outside of your home.
#79
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@Greyparrot
You have this habbit of getting stuck on something.... that something is rarely relevant. I literally quoted something that said what you just said.... so the ooonnnnnllllllyyyyy logical conclusion you can draw from that is that I completely disagree! You are the ruler of red herrings. How about you just address the point, are you just a joke?
#80
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@Theweakeredge
What point are you trying to make? That most guns are legally unregistered?

That the states with the most registered guns and the toughest gun permits and confiscation laws also have the highest crime rates?

If you are trying to draw some ham-handed correlation/causation... you are going to have to do a LOT better.

Why don't you draw up a resolution you think you can defend and we can debate it?
#81
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@Greyparrot
My point? That guns need to be regulated, the purchase of them more specifically - there needs to be more required training, there needs to be required background checks, etc, etc..
#82
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@Theweakeredge
Want to set up a resolution for this? We can debate it.
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#83
Danielle
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@Greyparrot
Do the Democrats who support private healthcare also support the right for anyone to buy any firearm they want, the right to discriminate, or the right to not pay taxes and instead keep one's own money to do as they please? If not they're not individualists. The classic definition of "liberal" is about individualism, but it's also about the promotion of free enterprise which many Dems have abandoned. So I don't think it's accurate to classify Dems as individualists today but this discourse in semantics is boring me. 

By "populism" I'm referring to Trump's populist campaign promises — that the rich would pay more, the forgotten working class would pay less, and special interest loopholes like the carried-interest provision for hedge-fund managers would be gone (none of that happened). The term typically refers to "anti elites" who think the government is rigged in favor of the rich and against the working class. 

By "pro capitalism" I am talking about lower taxes and less regulation, including little to no trade barriers. 
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#84
Danielle
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@ILikePie5
I can't vote in the primaries because I'm not a registered Democrat. 
#85
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@Danielle
that the rich would pay more, the forgotten working class would pay less, and special interest loopholes like the carried-interest provision for hedge-fund managers would be gone (none of that happened).

None of those promises were why he was elected. Why do you think this?
#86
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@Greyparrot
Sure, I'll pm you with the specific resolution before I make the debate, I also have to actually write up the debates I'm in currently, that's three btw, so it might take a couple days
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#87
Danielle
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@Greyparrot
None of those promises were why he was elected. Why do you think this?


Those are some of the reasons Trump apologists say he was elected ("to stand up for the forgotten working class"). Are you asking why I think he was really elected or why he didn't keep those promises? 
#88
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@Danielle
"to stand up for the forgotten working class"

And you think standing up for the forgotten working class means lowering taxes and providing government assistance?

If that was the case, Hillary would be president right now.

What do you think the word "forgotten" signifies?
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#89
Danielle
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@Greyparrot
And you think standing up for the forgotten working class means lowering taxes and providing government assistance?

Trump said lowering taxes for the working class would benefit them and I agree. I didn't say anything about government assistance.

Do you agree with Rand Paul that the working class should not receive government assistance in the form of stimulus checks, or do you agree with Trump that they should receive even more government assistance?  


What do you think the word "forgotten" signifies?
In this context, people who feel that government policies have hurt them and not provided any relief. 
#90
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@Danielle
In this context, people who feel that government policies have hurt them and not provided any relief. 

Relief from what?