Live debate practice

Author: MisterChris
Practice

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#61
MisterChris
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@David
@whiteflame
@Speedrace
@seldiora
Everyone has agreed to the 23rd except Armoredcat, who has dropped out. Fortunately, Speedrace has joined us which keeps our plan basically the same.  I would like to get the debate going the 23rd at around 7 PM. If that time is OK with everyone, then great. If not, we can make different arrangements

Here is the official breakdown. Make sure to coordinate prep privately with each of your partners!!

Topic: "Resolved: The European Union should join the Belt and Road Initiative." 

R1:

PRO Team First Speaker: David
PRO Team Second Speaker: Speedrace

CON Team First Speaker: Seldiora
CON Team Second Speaker: MisterChris

Moderator: Whiteflame

R2: 

PRO Team First Speaker: Speedrace
PRO Team Second Speaker: David

CON Team First Speaker: Seldiora
CON Team Second Speaker: Whiteflame

Moderator: MisterChris

ROUND STRUCTURE: 

NOTE: In order to accommodate the teams system I will be making slight changes to the traditional LD structure template. 

6min - Pro Constructive (1st Speaker)
Now only 2min - Con CX's Pro (1st Speakers)
7min - Con Constructive followed by Initial Rebuttal (1st Speaker)
Now only 2min - Pro CX's Con (1st Speakers) 
4min - Pro Rebuttal and Defense (2nd Speaker)
6min - Con Rebuttal and Defense (2nd Speaker)
ADDED ROUND: 2min- Final CX (2nd Speakers)
3min - Pro Final Rebuttal and Defense (2nd Speaker)

As David summarizes nicely: "each team has 4 minutes of prep time which they may use at their discretion, so long as it does not interrupt an ongoing speech or CX."
For prep: Probably the easiest method is for each team to have a private voice chat. They would mute themselves in whatever meet we did, and talk to eachother in the private voice chat during the prep time.


We will allow some time for group feedback & discussion after each round. I will also be taking feedback on how to improve these practice sessions, as I want to make them a more regular event on the site. Overall, I just want this to be a chill event where we can debate in a low pressure environment and improve. No need for strict moderation really, but we do need to keep things moving as each round will be like 40 mins. 


#62
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@MisterChris
Alright, Con it is, then! Looking forward to it.
#63
seldiora
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I think 7 PM might be tricky as it can be dinner time. 8PM is usually safer to ensure I will be there. As for the prep time, perhaps we can get some google docs to share between each team so they can discuss what is happening and what to do?
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#64
MisterChris
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@seldiora
Probably the easiest method is for each team to have a private voice chat. They would mute themselves in whatever meet we did, and talk to eachother in the private voice chat during the prep time.


#65
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@seldiora
We can do that, though I'd suggest our Google chats (i.e. the ones between you and me and you and Chris) be separate, if only because I'd rather not have us be thinking along exactly the same lines since we'll be functioning as separate teams. Can (and almost certainly will) have some overlap, though.
#66
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To clarify, I'm talking about prep for the debate ahead of time, and I meant Google Docs, not Google chats
#67
David
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@MisterChris
7 PMest is perfect for me 
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#68
MisterChris
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@whiteflame
yes. On that note, would you want to share cases for CON, or would you rather we have two different ones. 
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#69
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@whiteflame
Oh gotcha. NVM. 
#70
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@MisterChris
I'd suggest keeping them separate. We can share thoughts, but I don't want us writing out a case as a threesome.
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#71
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@whiteflame
Sounds good. We'll keep our prep ahead of time separate then.

As for in-debate prep time, do you like my idea of private voice chats for each team?
#72
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@MisterChris
Sounds like a good idea as long as we can make it work.
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#73
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@whiteflame
It could be done through Discord voice chats probably
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#74
MisterChris
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@seldiora
I'm going to make a constructive & some blocks.

I'll message you the links sometime tomorrow and you can give me your thoughts on them. In the meantime, are you familiar with how LD works? Have any questions on it?
#75
David
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@MisterChris
Since these are team debates, should we use the LD style or the policy debate format? 
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#76
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@David
I wanted to do LD just to get everyone accustomed to the format before the tournament. I also slightly adjusted the format to mesh well with team debates. 
#77
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@David
For those interested, the aim of these debates is to do something like this (and yes, you should vote on it if you get a chance):


Enjoyed the opportunity to kick off this set of live debates on the site with you, David!
#78
David
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@whiteflame
Likewise!
#79
Wagyu
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I think it would be good to add a section at the end to conclude where the debate is more like a conversation, in the sense that the speakers are both allowed to speak. This way, points can be refuted more directly and rebuttals can be given easier. Usually, with this quick pace conversation, it's easier to determine a winner as faulty points are instantly pointed out. 

Just a thought. 
#80
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@Wagyu
That might be interesting, though I'd say that the actual debate portion should be the basis for any judging. It's nice to have that discussion on the end, but it kind of defeats the purpose of restricting speech times, which requires both debaters to be efficient. Nice to have, but more for better understanding than for determining a winner.
#81
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Don't get too close to LD - LD format is neg skewed
#82
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@whiteflame
Been there. First open tournament I ever did, we ran into one of the top rated teams in the country in the second round. It was a topic I knew extremely well, probably better than they did, but they cleaned our clocks.

Yeah, it's a mess. Ended up doing ok but God hearing someone say "4 off then case" for the roadmap and then start spreading a shell makes me wanna die 
#83
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@Username
Yup, not terribly unusual for higher level debaters outside of LD and BP. Super common in Policy and NPDA, unfortunately. Don't like the speed tactics myself, but at least in our case, they were actually excellent debaters. Some people spread to cover for deficits in their own argumentation, which is incredibly frustrating.
#84
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@whiteflame
I mean it is LD
#85
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@Username
Then clearly, your opponents were doing it wrong. 

But seriously, that’s disquieting. Makes it sound as though LD is going down a dark path. Used to be so focused on good speaking style, too.
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#86
MisterChris
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@David
@whiteflame
@Speedrace
@seldiora
I realize the 24th is Christmas Eve, but would pushing the debate to that day work for people? We would probably make it during the afternoon so that you may engage in festivities with your families. 
#87
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@MisterChris
I can do the 24th, but it would have to be by 6 PM EST at the earliest.
#88
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@whiteflame
Then clearly, your opponents were doing it wrong. 

But seriously, that’s disquieting. Makes it sound as though LD is going down a dark path. Used to be so focused on good speaking style, too.
I mean, it depends. But yeah - the highest level LD at this point (like the TOC) is always going to be spreading. https://youtu.be/RP_81CItgcE check this out. 

I feel like it's inevitable for this kind of sport, though. Why go slow and read 1 off when you can spread and read like 6 off + more cards while your opponent and judge can just follow you on a speech doc?

It kind of sucks, but it definitely builds time management and organization skills.  

I would say both extremes are bad, to be honest. Sometimes people try to tailor LD to the public and it just becomes performance art. The other extreme is just being a rap god and doing literally anything possible to win. 
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#89
MisterChris
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@David
@whiteflame
@Speedrace
@seldiora
I'm gonna take the absence of responses (other than WF) as consent. 

We will reschedule it to sometime in the afternoon of the 24th. 
#90
David
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@MisterChris
Hey just saw this. FYI I am probably gonna be very busy that day I’ll check in the am