Maf give up.
Anime Waifus Mafia DP1
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@drafterman
Ayyyy, interested about what you have to say about everything so far.
Well, given that the previous target is gone and that I’m still uncertain regarding whether others will be replaced:
Unvote
VTL crystalynx
Claim.
Vote Count
Speedrace [2/7] iLikePie5, Danielle
Danielle [1/7] Lunatic
drafterman [3/7] Speedrace, That1User, Crocodile
VTNL [1/7] seldiora
crystalynx [1/7] whiteflame
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@MisterChris
Sure:
Elminster should be blacklisted.
External site information should be forbidden. If you want to play mafia, play mafia. This BS about "oh this person was typing on discord" is utter bullshit. I would be ask obstinate, if not more, than Speed is being now about that shit. Especially since it took up 10 pages of arguing and screen shots.
Firstly, it is out of the spirit of the game.
Secondly, it doesn't work. People used to do this all the time in DDO, looking at last logged in time stamps as evidence of being mafia and shit. I mean we JUST had a whole game where Elminster accused Danielle of lurking on FB and Discord when she was not and she was Town. Why is ANYONE still even given credence to this shit?
Attention: crystalynx has been replaced by warren42
Hated townie need not be policy lynched. Their existence means that MYLO is LYLO and the turn before MYLO is actually MYLO. As long as we are aware of this and proceed with caution, they can stay alive.
They don't get a free pass as a townie, but there is no need to policy lynch as opposed to say, popular or politician
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@drafterman
I agree on that.
What about Speed's reaction/behavior? The thing that seems to be pushing people towards his lynch is the fact he pulled the "i'm not claiming so lynch me" card for a while. He gave up his character eventually though.
Thoughts on lynching Croc for being hated?
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@drafterman
nevermind, you just answered the latter question
I agree with Danielle that we should look at who was jumping on Elminster's stupid-ass wagon:
Lunatic - troll/rvs vote
Chris - buying into the nonsense
Pie - also buying into the nonsense
whiteflame - buying into the nonsense, also sheeping danielle
Water - didn't buy into the nonsense, but also votes Speed anyway?
Danielle - for speed's reaction to the nonsense
That1User - sheeping Danielle
Of these, Chris, whiteflame, Water, and That1 stick out to me the most:
Chris - in just the very previous game Chris has demonstrated that he is fairly conservative with his votes, requiring a high level of certainty. I mean, he wouldn't lynch based on proven cop results but Discord fuckery is enough this time around?
whiteflame/That1 - I don't like sheeping. People need to develop their own reasons for voting or, if they are actually convinced by someone else's argument, demonstrate an independent understanding of why that argument is convincing or stands on its own merits. Simply going "what she said" doesn't cut it. This actually lowers my suspicion of Danielle, because it's more likely for scum to sheep off of an incorrect Town argument than scum sheeping off of fellow scum.
Water - Ostensibly comes in defense of Speed rightfully criticizing the Discord stuff as bunkum but then votes Speed anyway?
So let's go down the list:
VTL Chris
Vote Count
Speedrace [2/7] iLikePie5, Danielle
Danielle [1/7] Lunatic
drafterman [3/7] Speedrace, That1User, Crocodile
VTNL [1/7] seldiora
warren42[1/7] whiteflame
MisterChris [1/7] drafterman
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@drafterman
I agree with Danielle that we should look at who was jumping on Elminster's stupid-ass wagon:Lunatic - troll/rvs voteChris - buying into the nonsensePie - also buying into the nonsensewhiteflame - buying into the nonsense, also sheeping danielleWater - didn't buy into the nonsense, but also votes Speed anyway?Danielle - for speed's reaction to the nonsenseThat1User - sheeping Danielle
This seems helpful on the surface, but I'm not sure what to make of the bolded above considering I was never on Elminster's wagon and didn't say anything about his wagon for that1user to sheep. He was mod killed before I ever signed on.
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@Danielle
By "Elminster's wagon" I mean the wagon he initiated on Speed. So, Speed's wagon, really.
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@drafterman
Chris - in just the very previous game Chris has demonstrated that he is fairly conservative with his votes, requiring a high level of certainty. I mean, he wouldn't lynch based on proven cop results but Discord fuckery is enough this time around?
Aight FIRST, the COP results were not "proven" to my knowledge at the time. You can point in retrospect and laugh at me, but it seemed to me that a mafia role cop was a possibility. I missed that with a miller we'd need a real COP, so that was on me, but you can't pretend I understood that when I didn't.
SECOND, note that with the COP lynch, it was a lynch. We weren't asking for a claim. We wanted to kill the target, and if we had gotten that wrong it would've ended the game. Hence my natural inclination to be conservative about throwing my vote around.
THIRD, note that I only voted for Speed once Mikal provided photographic evidence, and my vote came OFF of Speed when we tested it independently (btw, why the fuck would I bother testing it as SCUM?) and it was revealed to not be actual proof of anything BY ME. I was the one who stated that Mikal's evidence meant little and have REPEATEDLY stated that my sussing of Speed is moreso based on his BEHAVIOR.
FOURTH, I haven't voted for Speed again since Lunatic and Danielle started the argument about whether Speed's behavior is anti-town or not. And as I have repeatedly said, I am split between a Speed lynch and many other prospective options.
How is this "buying into the nonsense?" I have literally demonstrated skepticism repeatedly.
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@drafterman
Oh, and you also ignore the fact that a vote =/= wanting to lynch. I wanted a claim.
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@MisterChris
The accusation was that Speed was in a discord mafia PM. There's no claiming your way out of that. If you're on that wagon, you're on it to lynch.
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@MisterChris
If you're not prepared to lynch someone, you shouldn't vote them.
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@drafterman
If you're not prepared to lynch someone, you shouldn't vote them.
I don't care about your opinion about whether you should vote for a claim or not. The point is that it wasn't my intention and you are ignoring that it wasn't.
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@drafterman
Dude, I didn't give a "what she said" response to Danielle's post. I gave my own analysis, which was both distinct from the points Mikal was making (I outright said that I thought his point was BS), and which was based largely on a series of posts I made earlier (well before Danielle made her views known). I chose to reserve judgement for a time and, after Danielle made her points, determined that they were in line with the views I expressed previously. If you want to call me sus for bandwagoning, at least try to be accurate with regards to what wagon I was on and when.
Since we have traded in the last noob, I'll simply unvote for now.
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@drafterman
The accusation was that Speed was in a discord mafia PM. There's no claiming your way out of that. If you're on that wagon, you're on it to lynch.
So looking at reactions/behavior is not a valid reason to lynch? OK, guess we can drop this wagon on me now.
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@MisterChris
I'm not saying votes can't be contingent, I'm saying that if you were voting Speed because of the discord stuff, then you weren't voting him for a claim because there is no claim that invalidates the discord claim. But if you deny the discord stuff, then I retract my statement.
Unvote.
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@drafterman
Gotcha. But to be clear (I guess I am explaining this again after all) I only voted for him cuz he refused to claim. It's a matter of principle for me.
I agree the Discord logic is flimsy and may have said so had I been online. I probs would have said we needed to pressure one of the noobs for aforementioned reasons. However if the wagon was already established and he had a certain # of votes then yes I expect a claim. This would apply to anyone. Speed is not exceptional.
And note even if I did go along with Mikal's reasoning, it was after he was proven town so I know he at least believed what he said. Per the post I linked to, in previous games we have absolutely caught scum over flimsy reasoning that people complained about. Everyone complained about Luna's logic that "scum must have been online and liked the post" in the Avatar game yet he was right. In the game before that, I was right that scum changed their profile pic to their fake character claim. I completely agree it's not within the spirit of the game to rely on outside "clues" like that, but it does have its place - especially on DP1 when we have little to go on - and I have maintained this position consistently for months.
I never said I wanted to lynch Speed. I said if you get a certain # of votes you need to claim and not claiming is anti-town + lynch worthy.
Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Croc seemingly knowing Mikal was town because "a townie wouldn't intentionally throw like that" when Mikal intentionally throws as town all the time?
BBL. Perhaps with replacements we'll get something more substantive out of the day phase.
unvote.
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@Danielle
Croc wasn't in last game and is perhaps unfamiliar with Elminster's behavior.
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@Danielle
Btw if Speed thought his wagon was bullshit, the appropriate way to handle that would be to then question or scum read people who hopped on a nonsensical wagon and try and make a case against them.
I did that with Mikal and everyone laughed in my face :|
And anyway I don't think someone hopping on a stupid lynch necessarily equates to being scum
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@drafterman
@warren42
Welcome!
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@drafterman
Lunatic - troll/rvs voteChris - buying into the nonsensePie - also buying into the nonsensewhiteflame - buying into the nonsense, also sheeping danielleWater - didn't buy into the nonsense, but also votes Speed anyway?Danielle - for speed's reaction to the nonsenseThat1User - sheeping DanielleOf these, Chris, whiteflame, Water, and That1 stick out to me the most:Chris - in just the very previous game Chris has demonstrated that he is fairly conservative with his votes, requiring a high level of certainty. I mean, he wouldn't lynch based on proven cop results but Discord fuckery is enough this time around?whiteflame/That1 - I don't like sheeping. People need to develop their own reasons for voting or, if they are actually convinced by someone else's argument, demonstrate an independent understanding of why that argument is convincing or stands on its own merits. Simply going "what she said" doesn't cut it. This actually lowers my suspicion of Danielle, because it's more likely for scum to sheep off of an incorrect Town argument than scum sheeping off of fellow scum.Water - Ostensibly comes in defense of Speed rightfully criticizing the Discord stuff as bunkum but then votes Speed anyway?
I would expect this from Chris, I think he's town for now
whiteflame sticks out as sheeping a lot to me, I'm null on That1
Water unvoted like right after he voted after the thought through it a bit more so I'm null reading him for now
Null on Luna, townread Danielle, null on Pie
So VTL whiteflame
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@Speedrace
And anyway I don't think someone hopping on a stupid lynch necessarily equates to being scum
Not necessarily, but that's kinda how we guess who scum is unless I've misunderstood how the game works for the last 12 years.
Say Mikal insisted I was scum cuz I was on Facebook/Discord and a wagon built even though I know for a fact I wasn't online. I'd still claim (and I'd be pissed) and I'd probably pursue one of the people on that wagon depending if I thought they really believed Mikal or not. You can usually gauge depending on who it is.
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@Danielle
Say Mikal insisted I was scum cuz I was on Facebook/Discord and a wagon built even though I know for a fact I wasn't online. I'd still claim (and I'd be pissed) and I'd probably pursue one of the people on that wagon depending if I thought they really believed Mikal or not. You can usually gauge depending on who it is.
Well that's your choice, if you said you weren't online and refused I'd back you up. Just a difference in how we play
Also I have 2 finals due today and I fly home tomorrow so I have to pack, so I'll be less active