What's your best argument for God's existence?

Author: Sum1hugme

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#61
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@Mopac
See, you're just assuming this thing you call "the ultimate reality" exists, without justification, and you call it god. 

It really looks like you're reasoning : god is the ultimate reality because the ultimate reality is god.
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#62
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@Mopac
Substantiate this specific claim : 
The Ultimate Reality is what gives existence to all things

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@Sum1hugme
You are assuming that I am making an assumption.

If there is no ultimate reality, nothing can even properly be called real. Your experience is a scientific experiment that conclusively proves there is some form of existence. If there is an existence as you experience it, there by necessity is an existence as it truly is.

There is nothing extraordinary about the claim that God exists.

No other belief is more justified than belief in my God.

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#64
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@Mopac
But what exactly do you mean by "ultimate reality?" You're defining it very vaugley. If reality is real, then reality is the ultimate reality. That doesn't require a god to be invoked at any point. Are you a pantheist?
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@Sum1hugme
The incomprehensible God is not something to be apprehended.

I am not a pantheist. I am an Orthodox Christian. We are probably more accurately called panentheists than pantheists.



#66
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@Sum1hugme
Before all worlds, before all ages, with God there was His Word, Truth. With Him was His Spirit, Truth. God is One with His Word and Spirit.

Through His Word, the universe was created, through His Spirit the universe was enlivened.

The Word became incarnate through that Holy Spirit and undefiled wisdom, dwelling among us so that we can rightly bare witness to the Uncreated God. God took the form of creation without sacrificing His divinity. The World, unable to bear The Incarnate Truth, killed it. But as The Truth cannot be overcome by falsehood, as darkness cannot overcome light, The Truth rose again. In becoming death, and rising again, death itself was conquered, and all that ever was, is, and will be has been brought up with it. On the last day, the eternal day, all of creation will be resurected, and the Light of Truth will reveal all as truly is. A resurection of glory to those who abided in Truth, and a resurection of shame who put their trust in vanity.

For God is everywhere present, filling all things, and it is that presence of God that draws all back to Him. The Incarnation effectively deifying creation, and the resurection being the death of death itself.


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#67
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@Mopac
See? You're just using the word truth and god interchangeably without justifying why god is true. Your attempt at justification is just the bible.
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@Sum1hugme
When did I use the bible to justify anything?
You are simply prejudice.

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#69
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@Mopac
you weren't referring to the Jesus story when you said " The World, unable to bear The Incarnate Truth, killed it. But as The Truth cannot be overcome by falsehood, as darkness cannot overcome light, The Truth rose again. In becoming death, and rising again, death itself was conquered..."? Because that sounds like the Jesus story to me, coupled with you saying you are an orthodox christian.
#70
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@Sum1hugme
It is what we believe, whether you accept it or not.

But our faith is not an understanding so much as it is a way to abide in. The Eternal Way of Truth is our religion. That is a way of life.

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#71
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@Mopac
It reads like you believe in the existence of truth, but just call it god. But how is truth "god"?
#72
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@Sum1hugme
There is nothing real or imagined that can be greater than The Ultimate Reality. This is the God we believe in. It is what we have always believed.

Was pretty radical at a time when people called statues gods. When people called forces of nature gods. When people called the fiery ball in the sky god. 

The revelation that The One True God is Truth itself has done much to enlighten the world.

Unfortunately, the west is sliding into a dark age because deviation from orthodoxy has lead the elite to adopt a nihilistic worldview that denies the existence of ultimate reality all together.
#73
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@EtrnlVw

In response to me stating the following
The argument from personal experience isn't very strong (or at least I believe). First off, how would you explain Muslims experiencing the Allah, or Ancient Egyptians sighting Osiris? Many people claim to have a personal experience with their God but the issue is that these sightings are common in any religion you encounter.
EtrnLVw makes the following claims. 

The vastness of creation allows for many types of spiritual experiences, not just one or two.
There are 7.5 billion people in the world. Mathematics can allow for more than "one or two" of these "miracles" to occur without us being confounded. 

That means that there's not just one source over another that can have legit experience.
True. But this one source, being the sheer amount of people in the world who are active every day, is enough to explain the miracles which happen from day to day.

Actually, personal experience is a very real and strong argument because it's based on first hand observations, people just don't know it yet...their objections are valid they just aren't relevant. They are unaware that variations are not an issue, they are in fact a feature of creation.
One difficulty with taking such "revelatory" experiences at face value is that they're not restricted to one faith. Catholics see the Virgin Mary. Hindus see the Vishnu and New Agers see the Goddess. The fact that so many people have so many bizarre and often contradictory experiences -  experiences that coincidentally always happen to fit with they own particular religion faith ought to lead some who claims to have had a revelation to treat their experience with caution. So, too, ought the fact that at least some of these religious experiences are known to have physiological causes. For example, the famous "tunnel" experienced by those close to death accompanied  by intense feelings of well being is the result of hypoxia and can be induced at will using a test pilots centrifuge. 

Because of the reality that there are countless societies that exist outside the immediate physical realm one can have many types of encounters. God understands that the soul will have many different and various interests and desires and so God accommodates that with God's eternal creative abilities. Whether or not Theists accept this phenomenon is irrelevant, what they say or believe about that has no real merit. So they can make claims that they believe this or that, or that their observations are the only "true" experience but those claims should be considered but then tossed aside...to put it bluntly. It's time for souls here to realize how magnificent and beautiful the variations of creation are and if they choose to abide in a particular culture and show reverence and love for that one culture it's okay, but stop being a racist religious thug, to put it bluntly. It is time for people to grow up and observe the many wonderful features that God has created and stop the prejudice.
 And this supports your claim how? There's a great way you can see if this logic you use is exclusive or not. If it justifies all Gods, then it is faulty. If it only makes sense with your God, then it has some credibility. Let's put it to the test. 

Because of the reality that there are countless societies that exist outside the immediate physical realm one can have many types of encounters. Allah understands that the soul will have many different and various interests and desires and so Allah accommodates that with Allah eternal creative abilities. Whether or not Theists accept this phenomenon is irrelevant, what they say or believe about that has no real merit.... it is time for people to grow up and observe the many wonderful features that Allah has created and stop the prejudice.

As you can see, it still give of the same mysterious vibe and doesn't actually accomplish anything. 

You then go on the talk about God knows what. I fail to see how the "kingdoms of this planet" have anything to do with miracles. 

When asked about miracles, you stated that 

Well I'm not speaking for the other poster obviously, but a miracle would simply be an action taken that had its origins from a source outside of our immediate physical domain. Other beings in creation outside of ours can and will act as they feel necessary and what they can do within their specific powers. Miracles shouldn't be labeled as something we feel is necessary, it's what the other source feels is necessary.
Such as what? What notable event can be categorised as a "miracle" because if there is one, I haven't heard of it.  
#74
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@Barney
If something actually happened, then it wasn't a miracle.
#75
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@Mopac
The odd thing is, that you constantly refer to nothing as GOD.

You just say that it's the ultimate reality.

Except when you contradict yourself of course, and refer to it as "HIM".

So is it a "HE" or just an ultimate reality.....Though, might it not be a SHE, if it gave birth to the universe.
#76
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@zedvictor4
I certainly do not refer to nothing as God.

And it isn't as if we believe that divinity is gendered either. The Ultimate Reality is not like human beings who have sexes. Even in Genesis, it says  "God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."





#77
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@zedvictor4
We refer to God in persons because our faith is relationship with God. We relate to God in person. No language is truly adequate to describe this relationship, as it is something to be experienced. It is what we call a mystery.

But while we refer to God as a He, and confess that God became a man, we hold Mary as the greatest in honor among saints, singing,

"More honorable than the cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim, who without corruption gavest birth to God the Word, thou the true Theotokos, we magnify thee."

Divine wisdom itself we use feminine language. Hagia Sophia.

And that is what it is, the way we express these eternal truths. It is language. But we use this language to point to a God who is neither male or female. There is no language under heaven that is adequate to express what is fundamentally experienced through the mysteries.

#78
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And this is the prayer of Christ, 

"Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them."

#79
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@Wagyu
I’ve seen enough miracles which are better explained by God than random chance and predetermination.

Granted, this is why I believe, not a declaration that others must believe.
The argument from personal experience isn't very strong (or at least I believe). First off, how would you explain Muslims experiencing the Allah, or Ancient Egyptians sighting Osiris?
That is their job to explain, not mine. I am comfortable enough in my own faith, that I do not need to rip apart the faith of others... At least when it's not used to excuse negative actions.


Second off, what constitutes a "miracle".
You can scroll up for my earlier discussion of that  (#26).


...To pin these improbable things on supernatural causes is to ignore the statistical probability of these miracles happening to some person at some point in time. After all, we don't report on every non-miracle thing which occurs in the world, it's only the "amazing" things which people are interested in.
I don't claim that every odd pattern in toast must be the FSM or any other deity altering it, however, I suppose I've met too many narcissists, so I would rather be externally grateful to what may actually just be luck. My faith is not dogmatic, and again, not a declaration that anyone else must believe the same way as me. 
#80
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@zedvictor4
If something actually happened, then it wasn't a miracle.
That assertion fails the falsifiability test.
#81
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@Wagyu
One difficulty with taking such "revelatory" experiences at face value is that they're not restricted to one faith. 

That is exactly the point I was making, what I wrote was intended to show you how that's possible. Read that again, this time without the assumption I was supporting any particular religious conception of God. Some of you posters here have serious comprehension issues. It makes it near impossible to have any sort of intelligent dialogue. 
#82
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@Barney
There's bound to be a test.

I'm sure that believing in a specific GOD fails a test too.
#83
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Is it a miracle when a healthy baby get pediatric cancer?
#84
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@Sum1hugme
It reads like you believe in the existence of truth, but just call it god. But how is truth "god"?
How do you define God?
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#85
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@Tarik
That's essentially what I was asking
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@Sum1hugme
But you have an answer it just seems you disagree with it.
#87
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The only true God is Aphrodite. Aphrodite was the goddess of love, sex, and beauty. Unsurprisingly for a love goddess, she was said to have emerged from the foam generated when the severed testicles of her father, Uranus, were thrown into the sea by his son, the Titan Cronus.
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#88
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@Tarik
The definitions of god are as numerous as there are believers in god. The definitions are for the faithful to provide, and then to be scrutinized. 
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@Sum1hugme
So basically no matter what definition is provided your goal is to scrutinize it? How is that fair?

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#90
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@fauxlaw
The definition you provided of organized requires orderliness. But the problem is just transferred because fundamentally, order vs disorder faces the exact same problem of being arbitrary to what the individual considers orderly or disorderly.