What's your best argument for God's existence?

Author: Sum1hugme

Posts

Total: 372
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@fauxlaw
whatever you say oh great consistent fauxlaw
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@Theweakeredge
just because there is no specifically consensus agreed definition does not mean that their isn't a broad one
Is this a so called “argument” I’ve failed to address? How broad is the agreement? Enough for their to be consensus? I think not, like I said before a lot of the stuff you were saying in those three paragraphs was all filler that I can rebut in one sweep, you say I keep repeating myself but me repeating myself is me addressing your argument, if that bothers you maybe you should drop the well-being point otherwise have a nice day.
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Theweakeredge
We believe in a personal God surely, for everyone has their own experience. It is no strange thing. If we are in communication with God, why not recognize the type of the father and son relationship being fulfilled in our relationship with truth? It is really no strange thing, but it is a mystery to be experienced, not solved like a riddle.


Intellect
Intellect's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1
0
0
0
Intellect's avatar
Intellect
0
0
0
       I believe God exists because of the many blessings I have encountered . However, apart from my personal experience, the living evidence that God exists can be seen in all around us ; our gradual progress in improving ourselves as a result of the resources he provides us with, our friends and family ,the vital people in our lives that he connected us to, the fact that we were able to survive a global pandemic! and so on..
ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,920
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@Sum1hugme
"U"niverse exists and labeled as "G"od and is inclusive of the Cosmic Trinity Outline

1} eternally Metaphysical-1 { spirit-1 } mind/intellect/concepts ex concepts of God, Universe, Time, Space, footballs, trucks etc,
.....note here above italics of "U"niverse and "G"od are representative of #1 as well as following #2 and 3.......

---------------------conceptual line-of-demaraction------------------------------

2} eternally existent, Metaphysical-2, macro-infinite non-occupied Space,

3} eternally existent, yet finite, occupied space Universe aka God or Uni-V-erse ergo Observed Time physical reality ....as associated with sine-wave pattern /\/\/\/\/

......3a} fermions, bosons and any hybrid fermions as well as any collective manifestation of this set ex atoms molecules, planets etc,

.........3b} Metaphysical-3{ spirit-3} mass-aattractive { contractive }  Gravity (  ) aka geodesically  positive (  )  curved Space (  ),

.........3c} Metaphysical-4 { spirit-4} mass-repulsive { expansive } Dark Energy )( aka geodesically negative )( curved Space )(.
Sum1hugme
Sum1hugme's avatar
Debates: 37
Posts: 1,014
4
4
9
Sum1hugme's avatar
Sum1hugme
4
4
9
-->
@ebuc
Why call the universe god? 
Sum1hugme
Sum1hugme's avatar
Debates: 37
Posts: 1,014
4
4
9
Sum1hugme's avatar
Sum1hugme
4
4
9
-->
@Intellect
But all of those things could be accomplished if God didn't exist. So how are those arguments that he does?
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Sum1hugme
I'll try this a bit differently, rather than just presented some generic argument for God that's been used over and over only to be shut down by an atheist such as yourself let me give you an alternative way of viewing your own assumptions about the universe and about how God created the universe. When something is not working we need to try and push the envelope. I took these bits from other topics of the same nature and I'll just post them here. Be open-minded about it though, think about what I'm going to say here before you spontaneously reject it because of your preconceived notions, just give it proper thought and see what fits and makes sense.


Without the existence of God you must account for the processes of our universe and why they occur, meaning reflect on and articulate (think further on) how inanimate forces begin to produce intelligent productions on their own will. If you do not, or you simply ignore that you're essentially skipping a very important detail and not being intellectually consistent, you must ask the same questions about such processes as you do the results of those processes! why does it occur, how does it occur?
I'll have you consider your own assumption about our world. That's just to get you thinking about what and why you believe what you do without any real objection to it. And that the alternative might just be a better proposition or a more logical premise.

I can lay out that there really are only two options available in regards to the existence of the universe just to make clear how simplistic this really is. Either God created it, or God didn't. This means that either theism is true or materialism/atheism is true, and if I can get you to see that materialism is an absurd conclusion I have a shot at getting you to consider the only other option.

I can do that by correlating the processes of our universe with intelligence, or correlating productions with a producer, that construction is always associated with a constructor. To do that I have to convince you (have you think through) that inanimate materials cannot begin to generate desired outcomes and intelligent beings by themselves and I do that simply through commonsense. We know through our own world observations mind and thought (agency) are always associated with processes and productions. To understand the mechanisms and materials involved in the manufacturing of something there first needs to be foreknowledge, to have understanding of how a process can work to create a usable product there must first be awareness. And so this would indicate very convincingly that Agency was involved in the production of our universe through the factors of mind and thought (foreknowledge).

We know that inanimate materials don't produce things by themselves in the same way bricks don't construct themselves into buildings alone, materials are gathered and utilized as a means to produce a desired outcome first through a user, by thought and mind (intelligence). Foreknowledge is necessary to understand how a process should begin and unfold, what materials are needed and to achieve a particular product or result. To believe the alternative is to accept an absurdity, something that is not believable.
I understand that a person becomes accustom to a certain way of thinking and what they believe, which is why I would want to get them really thinking about what they have accepted as true.
Only one of two options is true, only one fits with reality as we know it. I would argue for Theism obviously as being the superior option.



I start with the processes of the universe and how things are produced through those processes within our universe. Being that intelligent processes (productions that produce a desired outcome) can be seen through intention and foreknowledge by thought and mind (AKA agency) such processes indicate those very factors themselves.
The actions of energy are the key element to observe and consider this. How anyone could accept or believe without question that inanimate forces and materials could begin to produce/generate processes as if they had minds is somewhat unbelievable. I'm not trying to insult anyone that's just my opinion on the matter, but it is an educated assumption not just a bare assertion. I've thought about this for a long time and rather than just believing that these processes generated themselves because no one knows why they occur I've made a better estimation.
Knowing that God exists it's not just a matter of me dismissing this objection rather I just have to show how it works instead. If it's true it should fit and the logic should follow simply and smoothly correct?

I can answer for why energy exists at all and why it acts as an intelligent force within our universe using the eternal conscious awareness of the Creator. Energy itself is accepted as being neither created or destroyed and exists both independent of form and within form. In other words it is considered omnipresent and eternal both of which are associated with the attributes of God coincidentally. Isn't that interesting and ironic? the properties or attributes of energy are expressed the same way as the qualities of God! so now we have a fact and a proposition, so the question is how do they come together and fit? that's the easy part...we start with observing how the universe acts as a whole and make correlations.

Awareness exists wherever something exists, there is no place something exists where awareness is not present that is what makes it exist. Consciousness is proposed within spirituality as being uncreated and eternal, that is....the conscious awareness of God and my premise is that wherever you observe energy you have the presence of awareness and wherever you have the presence of awareness there is energy as well. I can logically make this determination by observing how energy acts within creation and so it fits with the attributes of the Creator. In other words it works.
It is the very activity of conscious awareness that generates energy, it co-exists with conscious activity and therefore energy co-exists with the consciousness of God. Did you know that your thoughts and activity of mind emanates/generates energy? The conscious awareness of the eternal God emanates and generates the same presence of energy on a mega scale. So energy is not a created thing rather it's generated, it exists simultaneously with consciousness. This is the first step in the utilization of an inanimate force to create form within the universe, to begin the very processes of constructing our world. Basically energy then would be the first accessible tool to begin creating.....
Before the Big Bang was conscious activity alone with the co-existing presence of energy, this conscious activity was omnipresent and without a localized point of reference as it is with energy. This massive Reality generated megatons of energy no one could conceive of. This incredible force of energy was condensed and released to produce what we call a Big Bang, (the moment our universe began to expand at such an accelerated pace). God knew this would produce even more elements to begin utilizing through the fusion and chemical changes of force and heat generating new materials.

God used and initiated the very processes of the birth and death of stars to generate light, heat and elements that would continually seed our universe, this is the very foundation of making it inhabitable and usable as a place to create physical bodies for souls to experience life. God uses the processes of creating stars and the formation of planets then establishing arrangements, solar systems, galaxies and ecosystems that would be suitable for many forms of life known and unknown to our planet. God develops the processes of evolution to transform inanimate materials into something usable for life and the soul. These worlds, planets and embodiments are created for the purpose of the soul having experience within creation.

It is through the very processes themselves that I can support such a premise through correlation, logic and common sense. The evidence, or indication is strong and lends to conclude only one answer for our existence. When it is all said and done there is only two options but only one that truly works. God created our universe through intelligent processes or God did not, which would indicate inanimate forces began acting like animate mind and thought, which of course is ridiculous.
In the end one view is superior to the other but only one can  be compatible with commonsense.

The argument does not end though, that's only one angle of thought to begin a solid premise to start with. The evidence that correlates with a transcendent (spiritual) reality is overwhelming. There's more observations and experience of spirituality than any other single topic known, combine that with allowing for more thought on why processes occur at all and you have a decent starting point.

ebuc
ebuc's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,920
3
2
4
ebuc's avatar
ebuc
3
2
4
-->
@Sum1hugme
Why call the universe god? 
Because it is the way my mother taught me i.e. God is everything.  I think of things as our finite, occupied space Universe, ergo, in order to more inclusive of Metaphysical-1 mind/intelect/concepts I use the labelings in italics below and that leads two differrent understandings of word Universe and God in the most comprehensive, wholistic outline I know to exist.

If you have a better one please share.  You do not nor does anyone else.

"U"niverse exists and labeled as "G"od and is inclusive of the Cosmic Trinity Outline

1} eternally Metaphysical-1 { spirit-1 } mind/intellect/concepts ex concepts of God, Universe, Time, Space, footballs, trucks etc,
.....note here above italics of "U"niverse and "G"od are representative of #1 as well as following #2 and 3.......

---------------------conceptual line-of-demaraction------------------------------

2} eternally existent, Metaphysical-2, macro-infinite non-occupied Space,

3} eternally existent, yet finite, occupied space Universe aka God or Uni-V-erse ergo Observed Time physical reality ....as associated with sine-wave pattern /\/\/\/\/

......3a} fermions, bosons and any hybrid fermions as well as any collective manifestation of this set ex atoms molecules, planets etc,

.........3b} Metaphysical-3{ spirit-3} mass-aattractive { contractive }  Gravity (  ) aka geodesically  positive (  )  curved Space (  ),

.........3c} Metaphysical-4 { spirit-4} mass-repulsive { expansive } Dark Energy )( aka geodesically negative )( curved Space )(.

FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,597
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@EtrnlVw
Without the existence of God you must account for the processes of our universe and why they occur like the birth of  babies without arms and legs.
Doesn't God know anything about quality control?
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@FLRW
I've already addressed this, you had no argument (as usual). So when you repeat the same stupid things over it just makes you look like an idiot. I'd rather you not comment at all unless you have something of value to write. 
Tarik
Tarik's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 2,481
3
3
5
Tarik's avatar
Tarik
3
3
5
-->
@Sum1hugme
Actually, my best argument is asking what you believe in philosophically and chances are whatever it is it isn’t logically sound without God.