CONTEXT!!!!!

Author: Stephen

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#61
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@Wagyu
Maybe you shouldn't concern yourself with these hard things then. Instead, you should learn what the faith is about. You are only confusing yourself.

What you are demanding from me is not nearly as reasonable as you think it is. Rather, it is presumptious.

I am telling you the truth when I say that this isn't the place to start if you want to understand the faith. That is, assuming you care to understand the faith.

If you do, I will tell you right now that it is nothing like you imagine it to be.

As I said earlier, apart from what it is the church teaches, scripture is always taken out of context.

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#62
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@Wagyu
Perhaps, but I've seen you start multiple threads with no success. 

 I don't start my threads with the intent on gaining any amount of success in the way of reasonable discussion or debate , Wagyu .

I start my threads in order to see how  each individual question I pose is approached and handled by the believer.  There is no doubt that there is  an almost innate pattern that immediate arises when theist are challenged with an awkward or embarrassing questions concerning these unreliable, ambiguous biblical half stories that make up the scriptures.

 Their ignorance of their  own scripture can be breath taking at times. One of the worse and most embarrassing traits that they all posses is they will deny what the scriptures themselves have to say....for themselves.  This is why theist here will very rarely - if at all - start a thread to discuss the actual written scriptures. They find it an impossibility to discuss the bible without redefining words and re writing scripture.  Atheist, I have found, know these scriptures better than any theist.

It will always be you/I that is at fault, without them just once considering themselves to be even the slightest wrong.   

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#63
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@Mopac
As I said earlier, apart from what it is the church teaches, scripture is always taken out of context.

 Yes, according to theists.   And that is why I  started this thread.  Atheist are ALWAYS accused of taking things biblical out of context while you refuse to, or are simply incapable of explaining the context.  And there is only one single reason for your reluctance to even take the question on: because  it is far too difficult to defend the indefensible. 


#64
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--> “God himself will kill tens of thousands if it pleases him”
Samuel 6:19
 
Samuel 6:19 actually reads (in my text) “And He smote of the people of Beth-shemesh, for they had gazed upon the Ark of the Lord, and He smote of the people seventy men, fifty thousand men, and the people mourned, for the Lord had struck a great blow upon the people”
 
There is discussion of the exact numbers but the bottom line is, the Philistines were punished by God for challenging him. What needs to be explained?
 
 
--> “Their little ones will be dashed to pieces before their eyes. Their houses will be looted, and their wives will be raped”.
Isaiah 13:19
 
Isaiah prophesies of the Medes’ and Persians’ conquering the Babylonians and the cruel and strange ways in which they will do it (as they are, ultimately, no better).
 
 
--> “See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.”
Genesis 19:8
 
Lot is not a good guy, so he makes a horrible and offensive offer.
 
--> "Happy the one who takes and dashes Your little ones against the rock!"
Psalm 137:9
 
An oppressed people, taken as slaves into exile, their homes killed and families murdered, is forced to “sing” to amuse the captors, so they sing in their native tongue a song of revenge. I am often reminded of the Eddie Murphy stand up routine when describes the small child, angry at a parent, whimpering "I hope she gets hit by a truck and die." (here, starting at about 26 seconds https://youtu.be/GidRTfwR1Wg )
 
--> "And as for your male and female slaves whom you may have — from the nations that are around you, from them you may buy male and female slaves"
Leviticus 25:444-45
 
The institution of slavery existed (with myriad laws and controls) in biblical times.
 
--> "For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him"
Leviticus 20:9
 
Respecting elders was of primary importance. If one breaks certain laws that are considered the bedrock of a society, and if (a big if) the justice system can prove to its satisfaction that what happened was enough to undermine the overall peace and security of the group, capital punishment was enforced.
 
--> "Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!” So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the LORD. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths"
2 Kings 2:23
 
Plenty to be said about this last one. Elisha knew through prophecy that these men (no, not children) were born via a particular sin, devoid of positive traits and were not destined to perform and positive acts, so they were deserving of the death penalty. And yet, Elisha was punished for this.
 

#65
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@Wagyu
Perhaps, but I've seen you start multiple threads with no success. I don't think there's a way to talk sense in these people. 
Tell him to start multiple accounts like you. That might work.
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#66
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@ethang5
Perhaps, but I've seen you start multiple threads with no success. I don't think there's a way to talk sense in these people. 
Tell him to start multiple accounts like you. That might work.

 I do not have to resort to that kind of deviousness to get my points across. And neither would I stoop to sharing passwords and scripting another members replies.
 I notice you didn't attempt to address the questions posed but instead chose to post something entirely irrelevant to the questions not to mention the thread. 

#67
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Perhaps, but I've seen you start multiple threads with no success. I don't think there's a way to talk sense in these people. 
Tell him to start multiple accounts like you. That might work.

I do not have to resort to that kind of deviousness to get my points across. And neither would I stoop to sharing passwords and scripting another members replies.
No, you just stoop to blocking a person then addressing them by answering a post not sent to you. That is cowardly and dishonest jasper.

I notice you didn't attempt to address the questions posed but instead chose to post something entirely irrelevant to the questions not to mention the thread. 
You're still noticing what I do though you've blocked me hypocrite? You block me, then answer my posts addressed to another person?

You and Willows deserve each other.
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#68
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@ethang5


I do not have to resort to that kind of deviousness to get my points across. And neither would I stoop to sharing passwords and scripting another members replies.
No, you just stoop to blocking a person then addressing them by answering a post not sent to you. That is cowardly and dishonest jasper.


 I blocked three of you all on the same day. And yes, that is a terrible thing to do. And I am ashamed to have done so, I really am. But do you know what caused me to do that don't you. Elmer? 
Two things to be exact.

( 1st)   I had had enough  of being blocked by two of your buddies after almost a year and your buddies still posting replies to my comments on my own threads where I couldn't reply back. I decided to block them. Do you know I got banned for complaining about them commenting, shouting and agitating from the sidelines on my own threads in such a cowardly fashion yet leaving me no chance of a direct response. Yes, your friends are fkn cowards. 

Like you I agree that it is cowardly   but NOT AGAINTS THE RULES, by all accounts Elmer.

(2nd) When it came to BLOCKING YOU, it was YOUR disgusting comments about people being murdered by jihadists that finally caused me to block you.#154 Or have you forgotten what you actually wrote? 
here you are>>
"   Why would any sort of jihadist keep me awake? Most of the world is not as run over with jihadists as England is. Only sheep or soldiers get killed by jihadists".
If that didn't deserve a lengthy ban then  I don't know what does, to be honest. That said I suppose except  one showing a pattern of sexual harassment could rank along side it.#17


I have had plenty of reasons to block ignorant pigs and timewasters like you on many occasions, but like YOU I believed it to be a  cowardly response.  But NOT AGAINST THE RULES, Elmer.

So if you do not like the fact that I can respond to you directly but won't afford you the same curtesy, then  take it up with moderation.  Or simply block me. I won't hold it against you princess. 

And so you get this clear for the New Year.

I HAVE BLOCKED YOU BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT YOU TO REPLY OR RESPOND TO ME ESPECIALLY ON ANY OF MY OWN THREADS.  Any further comments made to me by YOU especially  on my own threads I will take as harassment and stalking and will expect them to be treated as such.




#69
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I blocked three of you all on the same day.
Then why are you addressing me when I have not addressed you? You block me and then answer a post I sent to another person? Are you trying to be dumb?

And yes, that is a terrible thing to do. And I am ashamed to have done so, I really am. But do you know what caused me to do that don't you. Elmer?
You don't need to be ashamed of blocking anyone. The tool is there for us to use. But what you should be ashamed of is blocking and then responding to the one you blocked when he posts a thread to someone else.


I don't care if you block me, but if you do, don't then start addressing my posts to other people. That is pathetic. And cowardly. And illogical. And just like you.

Like you I agree that it is cowardly   but NOT AGAINTS THE RULES, by all accounts Elmer.
I never said it was against the rules. It's good because it shows how mentally off balanced you are, and how dishonest you are, all without me doing anything.

If you block me, it means you don't want me to talk to you, yet you will seek out and answer a post of mine not addressed to you! Are you sane? And you will later whine that I attacked you.

I have had plenty of reasons to block ignorant pigs and timewasters like you on many occasions, but like YOU I believed it to be a  cowardly response.  But NOT AGAINST THE RULES, Elmer.
Lol! At least we agree that you're a coward.

So if you do not like the fact that I can respond to you directly but won't afford you the same curtesy, then  take it up with moderation.  Or simply block me. I won't hold it against you princess. 
I won't block you. You aren't significant enough to warrant a block, and also, I'm not a coward. I can respond to you just fine. And burn you just fine.

Any further comments made to me by YOU especially  on my own threads I will take as harassment and stalking and will expect them to be treated as such.
Lol!!! You're responding to me even when I'm not posting to you, but if I post to your loser threads that would be harassment?? Hee! Hee! That's hilarious.

I don't care why you blocked me. You aren't that important. But if you thought that your lame threads with their lame topics would escape the harsh spotlight of logic, you were mistaken. I am surprised that you could feel shame tho. I guess you aren't as far gone as dee dee.
#70
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@ethang5
Perhaps, but I've seen you start multiple threads with no success. I don't think there's a way to talk sense in these people. 
Tell him to start multiple accounts like you. That might work.
I hardly think that would. Also, you've ignored that I sent you...
#71
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@Mopac
Maybe you shouldn't concern yourself with these hard things then Instead, you should learn what the faith is about.
Exactly!! Teach me! Gimme some context 
#72
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@Wagyu
At the core, our faith is Truth worship. We worship The Truth through purifying the heart and nous. Abiding in The Eternal Way of Truth, we become living icons of The Truth. That is the goal. Salvation to us is being made divine through union with God's virtue. 

That God became man so that man may become divine.

That is what the church fathers teach. Salvation is theosis.

Only the Orthodox Church, the original and only true Christian Church keeps the apostolic faith that was handed down from the beginning. 

#73
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@Wagyu
We use scripture to point people to this religion, The Eternal Way of Truth.

When it is used for any other purpoose, it is taken out of context.

Something that may come as a surprise to you, but we tend to teach the bible through a typological lense. The vast majority of protestants are oblivious to this way of looking at scripture, but it is how the church from the very beginning used scripture.
#74
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@Wagyu
Another thing that might be interesting for you to know...


The word "psyche" in Greek means "soul". Psychology is literally the study of soul.

A great deal of what we do is psychology. The church understands psychology better than anyone. Why, typology is even something that contemporary psychology has attempted to adopt. Thank Carl Jung for that. Jordan Peterson is a good example of a high profile psychologist who has a pretty deep understanding of typology.

But the church as I said, understands psychology better than anyone. We have thousands of years of practice. Monasticism is taken very seriously in orthodoxy. It's all very related.
#75
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@Mopac
We use scripture to point people to this religion, The Eternal Way of Truth.
But the verses which you have pointed me to all make me cringe at religion. Like, “God himself will kill tens of thousands if it pleases him”. This isn't the kind of thing I want to be involved with. I don't endorse killing. I don't want to pray to something which kills at their will. Perhaps you could provide context to the statements I have provided. 
#76
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@Wagyu
Hi Wagyu,

great questions. Before I go into each verse which I fully intend to do when I have more time. Hopefully by the end of the day, i just want to talk about context.

Firstly, when I talk about context - I don't just talk about the so called bad verses but also some of the so called good verse. For instance - many Christians do unfortunately take the verse in Jeremiah - which talks of God knowing our futures and our plans and that he has a good thing for our lives completely out of context.  This is one of those good verses which is often taken out of context. 

Secondly when we talk about context we are talking on many different levels.  Which period of time was the text written - was it pre- flood, pre people  of Israel. During the so called time in Egypt, the period of time in the desert, the period of time when Israel the people are starting to occupy the land of Canaan.  The time when they start having kings - the time when the kingdom is divided into Israel and Judah. The time when they are being judged in Babylon and Assyria - the time in their return to Jerusalem = the silent years - the time of the Messiah - the time after the messiah - the time of the Christians - and also the end times. These are all particular times and different contexts when the bible was being written. 

Not only is the time period significant and has a context - but who was writing - prophet historian - king - someone else - where were they writing from - in the sense of location = were they in the desert - were they in Epygt or Babylon or Israel or somewhere else - and to whom were they were writing - and why were they writing.  Was it to encourage - was it to list a whole lot of statutes laws - was it conveying a warning or a judgment? And was it specific to people or was it a general warning or encouragement to all.

Also was the writing written to convey a particular truth - for example all of the gospels - although very similar in nature - all had different purposes and different audiences. 

Thirdly, the type of genre used by the author also provides context as well. The same story for example of the Egyptians being submerged under the red sea is communicated in at least two different ways very closely together. One is a narrative of what happened and one is the poetical retelling of that story. One is used to convey facts and one is used to convey emotion.  Both tell the same story using different language. 

This is what  talk about when I talk about context. I don't take the view that specifics written to Israel for instance are directly written to me - to dictate how I do things. Yet, I will look at what is written and see what the underlying principles are being said - and see if it applies to me.  

But people rip things out of context - one context is judgment. God kills people or orders people to be put to death - out of judgment. That is the context whereby his people through legitimate means are permitted to in law - lawfully people people to death. mostly it is in the context of war where such a situation takes place. There are other examples as well. 

Each of these verses you have provided - have a context.  Not using the context - attempts to put our reading of the passage into our culture. That is in my view culturally insensitive and an incorrect way of understanding what is going on. 

But as for the verses you have asked for a context. I will respond to your challenge. And I do so eagerly. 

#77
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@Wagyu
I certainly have not pointed you to these verses. 

What does the church teach about God? That is what matters.


#78
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Perhaps, but I've seen you start multiple threads with no success. I don't think there's a way to talk sense in these people. 
Tell him to start multiple accounts like you. That might work.

I hardly think that would.
You thought it would work for you.

Also, you've ignored that I sent you...
Because I find you too ridiculous to take seriously.
#79
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@Mopac
I certainly have not pointed you to these verses. What does the church teach about God? That is what matters.
You can't just teach one set of things whilst your own bible harnesses such horrors. You need to explain the verses I have shown you. They are part of what you believe. 
#80
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@Wagyu
What is there to explain? The old testament is a chronicle of ancient Israel's struggle with God. It has to be looked at through the lens of the church.

That is why you are starting from the wrong place. If we go over every scripture that offends your sense of aesthetics or morality, we will end up wasting a lot of time with very little benefit.

All I can say is that the church teaches to love everyone, and we certainly do not practice a violent religion.


#81
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@Mopac
What is there to explain?
Explain why God killed 10 000 people at his will.  

All I can say is that the church teaches to love everyone, and we certainly do not practice a violent religion.
Expect for, of course, the verses you don't like, which I have already shown to you multiple times. 
#82
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@Tradesecret
I look forward to your response. 
#83
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@Wagyu
You pointing out these verses to allegedly prove our violence does no such thing. 
Because the verses you would point out are not intended to teach us how to act.


We all have our time to die, this is a fact. Making peace with this reality is making peace with God, who is The Truth. To fight this reality is to invite delusion.

#84
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@Mopac
Because the verses you would point out are not intended to teach us how to act.
There is something called leading by example. God clearly, through his actions of killing 10 000 people at his will, is not leading by example. 
#85
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@Wagyu
If you want to see God leading by example, you must look at when God became man. That is, you must look at Jesus Christ.
#86
Wagyu
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@Mopac
If you want to see God leading by example, you must look at when God became man. That is, you must look at Jesus Christ.
  1. First, why not look at God? Is there something God has done which you deem immoral? 
  2. All good. There are plenty of things which Jesus has done which I can pick out. 
Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a] but you are making it ‘a den of robbers
Matthew 21:12-13

This is perhaps the most famous of Jesus’ anger issues occurred when he came across a temple to his dad, and found it full of moneylenders and animal-sellers. He was furious at this sacrilege, but he didn’t just get mad—he effectively Hulked out, flipping over tables and knocking over chairs. And then he stood guard at the door, to make sure no more jerks came in on non-worshipping business. As for as reasons for Jesus to be angry go, this is a solid one, but admittedly it doesn’t seem much in line with the “turn the other cheek” and “love your enemies” guy.

---

To be fair, Jesus only spat on the eyes of blind people in order to perform the miracle of restoring their sight (Mark 8:23) although there was time that Jesus spat on the ground, made some mud, and then rubbed the mud in the blind man’s eyes to heal them (John 9:6). Seeing as Jesus could heal people with a touch and kill trees with a word, was it 100% necessary to do all that spitting, too?

---

What about Matthew 8, where Jesus killed a bunch of pigs. 

When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[c] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.

“What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding.

The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”
He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.
#87
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@Wagyu
Jesus Christ is God.
#88
Wagyu
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@Mopac
And he killed 10 000 people cuz he felt like it. 
#89
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@Wagyu
You who judge Christ, know that you judge yourself. For you in no way surpass Christ in righteousness. 

#90
Wagyu
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@Mopac
You who judge Christ, know that you judge yourself. For you in no way surpass Christ in righteousness. 
?? How is this relevant to God killing 10 000 people