The Democrats are going to take the wrong lessons from this election (again)

Author: HistoryBuff

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#91
HistoryBuff
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@Dr.Franklin
tons of evidence, trumops legal team is good
lol, they've had like 20 cases thrown out of court for lack of evidence. That is the exact opposite of "tons of evidence". Every judge that has seen their cases has said they have no evidence. 

#92
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@HistoryBuff
wrong, they have made tons of progress
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#93
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@Dr.Franklin
wrong, they have made tons of progress
what progress is that? having over a dozen cases tossed out of court? the election is over. trump's lawsuits have no legal basis and are getting tossed out. and even if they succeeded, they still wouldn't actually change the outcome of the election. 

#94
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@HistoryBuff
court orders are winning for trump
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#95
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@Dr.Franklin
court orders are winning for trump
trump has already lost the election. His lawsuits are getting tossed out left and right. What does "court orders are winning" even mean?

#96
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@HistoryBuff
trump won
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#97
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@Dr.Franklin
trump won
that's funny. Biden got millions more votes and lots more electoral college votes. You must be defining "won" a different way that literally everyone else. 

#98
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@HistoryBuff
legal votes, he won
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#99
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@Dr.Franklin
legal votes, he won
they are counting the legal votes. Biden got millions more of them. And he also got more of them in the critical swing states. That is why trump lost. I know your cult requires you to ignore reality, but this is just sad. 

#100
ethang5
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@Dr.Franklin
If Biden got more legal votes, why are the democrats fighting to quash the audit? They should welcome it.

No Trump case has been dismissed. The fake news media are calling any case brought by individual citizens who are conservative, "Trump cases". Trump has won 3 judgements now in 3 states.

But the hard fact remains. Biden has not been declared the winner by any authoritative US election official. Any talk past that point is just Democrat attempts at misinformation.

Hi Doc! How have you been?
#101
dustryder
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@ethang5
If Biden got more legal votes, why are the democrats fighting to quash the audit? They should welcome it.
That's kinda the point. He got more legal votes. Auditing them is a waste of time and money when the end result is overwhelmingly likely to not change.
#102
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@dustryder
Then why does the law allow for audits? You're saying Biden got more legal votes, but that is in dispute, and there is evidence to suggest that Trump's contention has merit. You may not believe Trump's contention has merit, but again, that is what the courts are for.

You are either arguing for the right to dispute elections to be done away with, or for your subjective view to be elevated to obvious fact. I reject both positions as irrational.

We have a system in place for disputes like this, and Trump violated no law by demanding that the discrepancies be addressed by a court of law. If his claims have no merit, they will be dismissed, but as we have seen, some of his claims were considered legitimate by the court and have resulted in new vote counts.

You should stop and consider that you are using the same people who gave us the bogus polls of 2016 and 2020 to declear that Biden won. Do you not find that problematic?
#103
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@HistoryBuff
...only narrowly beat a president who is widely hated. 
This isn't holding up well. 
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#104
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@SkepticalOne
...only narrowly beat a president who is widely hated. 
This isn't holding up well. 

how so? margins in wisconsin and PA are like 1%. That is fairly narrow. Trump is hated by a large chunk of the country. He is incompetent, corrupt and has bungled the biggest crisis america has had in decades. Beating him should have been easy. But it wasn't. It was close. And the demcorats lost a house seats at the same time.

#105
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@HistoryBuff
Wisconsin and Pa went red in 2016, but Biden was able to convert them in 2020. Narrow margins in these states doesn't mean a narrow victory overall.

Now, if you mentioned Democrats losing House seats...maybe, but then we should consider the Senate too - which isn't decided yet.

#106
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@ethang5
It's simply a fact that the end result is overwhelmingly unlikely to change. We're talking about thousands of votes over multiple states. Hence it's a waste of both time and money. Of course he has the right to audit votes. However if you're asking why anyone would quash the audits, it's simply because the claims are meritless and there are consequences to entertaining his claims.

You should stop and consider that you are using the same people who gave us the bogus polls of 2016 and 2020 to declear that Biden won. Do you not find that problematic?
Unless your assertion that all of the news have collectively decided to report the same false number of vote counts, your point is moot. If that is your assertion, I look forward to seeing your evidence for a national scale conspiracy and the resulting pulitzer.

You should stop and consider that the one contesting the election is the same one who has previously refused to say that he'd transfer power peacefully, is generally a crook and has little in the way of morals.
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#107
HistoryBuff
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@SkepticalOne
Wisconsin and Pa went red in 2016, but Biden was able to convert them in 2020. Narrow margins in these states doesn't mean a narrow victory overall.
If those states had gone red, then Trump would have won. Which means the difference between Biden winning and losing was 1% of the vote in 2 states. That is a narrow victory.

If like 10,000 people had voted differently in Wisconsin and something like 35,000 people had voted different in PA, then Trump would have won. a 45,000 vote margin is tight. 

Now, if you mentioned Democrats losing House seats...maybe, but then we should consider the Senate too - which isn't decided yet.
the addition of the fact that democrats lost a bunch of house and senate races they were sure they would win is further evidence that this is bad. Susan collins is pretty well hated in her state, but voters still picked her over a democrat. 
#108
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@dustryder
...refused to say that he'd transfer power peacefully
This is untrue. Just like the lie that Trump "refused" to condemn white supremists, or the lie that Trump said bleach should be injected, or the lie that Trump paid no taxes, or the lie that Trump was "behind" in the 2016 election, or the lie that....

You get my drift. 
The liberal left simply believes every lame claim against Trump and it's almost impossible to get them to see their irrationality.

The bottom line still is, no official election official has called the election. Biden is NOT the president elect, and Trump is still the president. Curb your bias.
#109
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@ethang5
This is untrue. Just like the lie that Trump "refused" to condemn white supremists, or the lie that Trump said bleach should be injected, or the lie that Trump paid no taxes, or the lie that Trump was "behind" in the 2016 election, or the lie that....

You get my drift. 
The liberal left simply believes every lame claim against Trump and it's almost impossible to get them to see their irrationality.
The general idea is that the person who undermined the legitimacy of the election before the election even occurred, is now meritlessly contesting the results of the election. Big surprise.


The bottom line still is, no official election official has called the election. Biden is NOT the president elect, and Trump is still the president. Curb your bias.
The bottom line is that he has received the most votes, as well as the most electoral votes. This is unlikely to change and Trump whining about it will not change the inevitable.
#110
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@HistoryBuff
If those states had gone red, then Trump would have won. Which means the difference between Biden winning and losing was 1% of the vote in 2 states. That is a narrow victory.
No, that's not correct. If those states had gone to Trump, Biden would still be up. Trump's 232 electoral votes would become 262 - still short of 270, and Biden would have 276...*that* would be a narrow victory. Its a little absurd that Trump winning with 306 electoral votes in 2016 was a 'landslide', but Biden with the same number is a 'narrow victory'. 

If like 10,000 people had voted differently in Wisconsin and something like 35,000 people had voted different in PA, then Trump would have won. a 45,000 vote margin is tight. 
Lol, yep Trump narrowly missed holding Biden to a narrow victory within the questionable strictures of the electoral college. (Not narrow at all). In actuality, 5 million more people voted for Biden, Democrats will hold the House, and there's a chance they gain control of the Senate. That's significant.
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#111
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@SkepticalOne
Its a little absurd that Trump winning with 306 electoral votes in 2016 was a 'landslide', but Biden with the same number is a 'narrow victory'. 
trump didn't win in a landslide. He won by razor thin margins in a couple critical states. Biden basically did the same thing. 

Lol, yep Trump narrowly missed holding Biden to a narrow victory within the questionable strictures of the electoral college. (Not narrow at all).
we seem to be discussing different things. If you look solely at the electoral college, then sure biden got a big win. If you look at the actual vote totals in the critical states, they are pretty close. The difference between a "big win" for biden and a "bid win" for trump is like 50,000 votes difference. That is a tight race. 

In actuality, 5 million more people voted for Biden
millions more voted for hilary that trump too. That didn't make her president. I agree the system is broken, but that is the system that exists. 

Democrats will hold the House, and there's a chance they gain control of the Senate. That's significant.
I agree it is significant, because the Dems massively underperformed. All the polling showed a huge win for the Dems. Trump is a hated man. The republican party is full of useless suckups. And the dems still managed to barely hold onto congress and to fail to take the senate (probably). That is much, much worse than the projections. 
#112
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@HistoryBuff
we seem to be discussing different things. If you look solely at the electoral college, then sure biden got a big win. If you look at the actual vote totals in the critical states, they are pretty close. The difference between a "big win" for biden and a "bid win" for trump is like 50,000 votes difference. That is a tight race. 
I think there is definitely a disconnect here. I fail to see how you view this as a tight race. Even if Trump won PA and Wisconsin, he still would not have won sufficient electoral votes for an overall victory, and Biden has sufficient electoral votes for victory without these states. I think maybe you're relying on incomplete or bad data. 

I agree it is significant, because the Dems massively underperformed.

You're assuming the polls were an accurate representation. That's not a given.
#113
ethang5
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@dustryder
The general idea is that the person who undermined the legitimacy of the election before the election even occurred, is now meritlessly contesting the results of the election. Big surprise.
How do liberals like you forget the four years of democrats undermining the legitimacy of the 2016 election? Didn't the Obama administration spy on candidate Trump? Didn't every news mainstream new media outlet say Biden was ahead in a blue wave? Who said that Biden should no concede "no matter what"?

How do liberals manage to "not see" so much reality?

The fact that you have already decided that Trumps case has no merit shows your bias and disdain for due process. I bet you think Kavenaugh was guilty of rape too.

Biden is not he winner till all disputes have been resolved and official election authorities have declared him the winner. Till then, you are only displaying the depth of your TDS. 
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#114
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@SkepticalOne
Even if Trump won PA and Wisconsin, he still would not have won sufficient electoral votes for an overall victory, and Biden has sufficient electoral votes for victory without these states.
multiple other states were super close too. Georgia is within 15,000 votes. AZ is like 11,000 votes. So yes, biden won the electoral college by a big margin. But he won several of the critical states by fairly small margins. if 50,000-60,000 votes had gone the other way, Trump would have won. In an election with 150 million votes, winning by 50,000 is a tight race. 

You're assuming the polls were an accurate representation. That's not a given.
true, the polls were obviously off. but trump is one of the least popular presidents in modern history. He absolutely botched a massive global crisis right before an election. Beating him should not have been difficult. But the messaging the democrats went with ended in a narrow win for biden and losses for the democrats. That is a win, but it is a win that should scare the hell out of the democrats. If they don't figure out why their message did so badly then they cant fix it. And they are already lining up to blame progressives for their failures so that they can keep pretending like their shitty policies and corruption aren't the issue. 

#115
dustryder
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@ethang5
How do liberals like you forget the four years of democrats undermining the legitimacy of the 2016 election? Didn't the Obama administration spy on candidate Trump? Didn't every news mainstream new media outlet say Biden was ahead in a blue wave? Who said that Biden should no concede "no matter what"?
1. Irrelevant to the point
2. Half of those points are fake news. You should not accuse someone of being irrational when you spout out obvious misinformation.

The fact that you have already decided that Trumps case has no merit shows your bias and disdain for due process. I bet you think Kavenaugh was guilty of rape too.
What I have is a disdain for conspiracy theories, pointless actions and petulant man babies.

Biden is not he winner till all disputes have been resolved and official election authorities have declared him the winner. Till then, you are only displaying the depth of your TDS. 
Doesn't actually negate the fact that he received the most electoral votes and this won't change.
#116
ethang5
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@dustryder
Doesn't actually negate the fact that he received the most electoral votes and this won't change.
How do you know its a fact if all the votes have not been counted and election officials have not called the vote? You, like most liberals, seem not to need election officials or due process.

Trump will remain president till Jan 20th no matter what your fake news sites tell you, and if the courts uphold his contention, much longer than that.
#117
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@ethang5
How do you know its a fact if all the votes have not been counted and election officials have not called the vote? You, like most liberals, seem not to need election officials or due process.
Basic reasoning and balance of probability? Let's examine this logically.

Biden is currently leading in the supposedly contested states by some margin of votes. There are very few remaining uncounted votes, such that they cannot surpass the margin. Hence Trump cannot flip these states by simply counting any remaining votes.

The only recourse Trump has is overturning votes through court action. How likely is this? Well, we know that widespread voter fraud has never occurred previously. We know that as of yet, there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud for this election. We know that Trump's own officials have stated that this was one of the most secure elections in US history. Apart from this, he'd have to prove that this occurred in several states, for a number of votes that surpasses all known cases of voter fraud in history. So not very likely at all.

And obviously, Trump will remain president until Jan 20th. No one has said otherwise.
#118
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@ethang5
welcome back ethang! how have you been?
#119
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@zedvictor4
they are acutally counting illegal votes
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#120
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@Dr.Franklin
they are acutally counting illegal votes
and yet, no one can find evidence of these "illegal votes". It's funny that all these illegal votes exist, but there is no evidence that they exist. It's almost like you are delusional....