In fact my life will probably be better if Trump wins at's their problem.
Then why u votin for Joe lol
Obama the Socialist
Posts
Total:
98
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@Greyparrot
We got some Proud Boys and White Supremacists
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@ILikePie5
Lol, who needs government assistance when you can just loot when you feel like it?
@borntoloot
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@ILikePie5
What's actually sad is I stand to make a lot more money if Trump loses since I work for the government, but what good is all that money if the country becomes a shithole?
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@Greyparrot
What's actually sad is I stand to make a lot more money if Trump loses since I work for the government, but what good is all that money if the country becomes a shithole?
That’s literally every person in Fairfax and Loudon Counties in VA smh
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@ILikePie5
Wrong thread
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@Danielle
We're not communist lol.
We're not communists. The U.S. government very much is.
Things like the minimum wage and MTA do not prove we are socialist either.
We're not socialist; the U.S. government is. And yes, the minimum wage and MTA do prove that. The minimum wage is government exercising perpetual usufruct in the labor market by imposing price controls, which affect the available employment and the supply of labor. The MTA is a state sanctioned monopoly on transportation.
But what does any of this have to do with Obama?
Obama was president.
Are you saying his support for publicly funded endeavors makes him a socialist?
Yes.
You seem to be arguing that the very fact we have a government at all means capitalism is not possible.
Seem is not an argument; but yes, that is the implication.
In that case every politician is a socialist.
More or less, yes.
Republicans support ALL of the things you mentioned (public transportation, social security, social safety nets, etc.) so by that logic they're socialists too.
Yes.
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@Greyparrot
Enjoy the election results!
I guess. I don't really have anything invested. Just because I make fun of Trump supporters for their rampant falsehoods doesn't mean I <3 Biden.
I am sure you were born to snark.
I think so too. I'm so good at it and it comes naturally. But I'll scale it back to see if I can get a straight answer :) How is Obama a socialist?
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@ILikePie5
Is Obama a socialist? Not one of your posts addresses the OP so I'm trying to figure out why you bothered to comment.
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@Athias
So your take is that if we utilize or implement something socialist (such as the MTA) the government is therefore socialist. Does that mean when we practice a hands-off or market based approach or prioritize private property, we are simultaneously capitalist?
Do you think it's possible to have a government that is not socialist? Do you like the socialist aspects of government?
As far as Obama goes, if your metric is that all politicians are socialist then it doesn't really provide much utility to what I was getting at. That means Trump's a socialist, Rand Paul's a socialist, Ron Paul's a socialist, Ted Cruz is a socialist, Ayn Rand is a socialist. Errbody a socialist up in here.
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@Danielle
I think so too. I'm so good at it and it comes naturally. But I'll scale it back to see if I can get a straight answer :) How is Obama a socialist?
I wasn't really trying to goad you, I was just making fun of Hillary's latest tweet saying she was "born" to be the president.
Is this a serious question though or just more snark food?
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@Greyparrot
I was just making fun of Hillary's latest tweet saying she was "born" to be the president.
Haha did she really? I'm not familiar with that.
Is this a serious question though or just more snark food?
It's a serious question. I'm genuinely curious why this perception persists.
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@Danielle
So your take is that if we utilize or implement something socialist (such as the MTA) the government is therefore socialist. Does that mean when we practice a hands-off or market based approach or prioritize private property, we are simultaneously capitalist?
The government is as the government does. By mere virtue of its participation in any transaction, the government is practicing socialism because the government by definition is not private (not to mention its self-imposed right to exercise imposition and enforce law.) In what transaction or interaction does the government practice a hands off or "market-based" approach?
Do you think it's possible to have a government that is not socialist? Do you like the socialist aspects of government?
The answer to both: no. Though I don't usually entertain the emotional aspect since its entirely irrelevant.
As far as Obama goes, if your metric is that all politicians are socialist then it doesn't really provide much utility to what I was getting at.
If your intent was to contrast the narrative surrounding Obama in juxtaposition to the Republican opposition, then I suppose it doesn't.
That means Trump's a socialist, Rand Paul's a socialist, Ron Paul's a socialist, Ted Cruz is a socialist, Ayn Rand is a socialist. Errbody a socialist up in here.
Trump is a socialist, Ron & Rand Paul--a.k.a. "fake" libertarians--are socialists, Ted Cruz is a socialist, but Ayn Rand was not (nice try.) She was a philosopher, who (and correct me if I'm wrong) didn't participate as a member of government. And no not "Errbody" is a socialist up in herrrrr. Just the 541 members of government as far as this discussion is concerned.
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@Danielle
Is Obama a socialist? Not one of your posts addresses the OP so I'm trying to figure out why you bothered to comment.
I think I did...Obama 2008 is Trump 2020. Neither were and are socialists. It’s why Democrats got a filibuster proof majority in 2008.
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@Athias
So by your logic, Karl Marx was not a socialist because he did not hold public office.
The definition of socialist is:
noun
- a person who advocates or practises socialism.
adjective
- adhering to or based on the principles of socialism.
So it seems both Karl Marx (and Ayn Rand in your view) are socialists.
If your intent was to contrast the narrative surrounding Obama in juxtaposition to the Republican opposition
It clearly was. Republicans or other Democrats.
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@ILikePie5
Okay, so you don't think Obama is a socialist. Glad we cleared that up. Maybe someone else has insight on this perspective then.
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@Danielle
Okay, so you don't think Obama is a socialist. Glad we cleared that up. Maybe someone else has insight on this perspective then.
The whole socialism angle imo came up in 2016 with Bernie and even more during 2018 with AOC and the Squad. Then again, I didn’t follow politics before 2016 so🤷♂️
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@ILikePie5
Then again, I didn’t follow politics before 2016
Yeah, the right-wing was obsessed with Obama being a "socialist." They called him a socialist every day on Fox News. You could look it up on YouTube. They also swore he would take people's guns and many said he would implement Sharia Law. It was insane.
There were frequent demonstrations where people drew caricatures of him as a monkey or with watermelons, and people would stage fake hangings of him with a noose. If you Google it you will find many examples. It's also happened post his presidency such as when multiple people dressed as Obama in a noose costume at a University of Wisconsin football game. There was definitely a lot of unsubstantiated vitriol. That's why I'd like people to justify the claims of Obama being a socialist, race baiter or cop hater. I've seen people on this site make those inflammatory statements within the last week. I'm curious of the factual basis behind them. So far... none.
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@Danielle
Yeah, the right-wing was obsessed with Obama being a "socialist." They called him a socialist every day on Fox News. You could look it up on YouTube. They also swore he would take people's guns and many said he would implement Sharia Law. It was insane.
Pretty sure they were more concerned with Obama eliminating private health insurance choices.
What is your opinion on why America rejected the Congressional supermajority in 2010?
There were frequent demonstrations where people drew caricatures of him as a monkey or with watermelons, and people would stage fake hangings of him with a noose.
Trumpy has a Macy's parade baby balloon. You have to take fringe people with a grain of salt.
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@Greyparrot
Pretty sure they were more concerned with Obama eliminating private health insurance choices.
They were concerned about many things it seems. Do you deny the right-wing pundits, talking heads and constituency called Obama a socialist throughout his presidency?
Trumpy has a Macy's parade baby balloon. You have to take fringe people with a grain of salt.
These things are not the same. I don't think there is a history of violence toward people being hoisted as hot air balloons.
You know the people who did the noose thing at the football game said their actions were not racially motivated. Maybe this type of obliviousness is why you think those two things (the hot air balloon or even Kathy Griffin's grotesque image of Trump's head) are equivalent. And I don't mean to be snarky by use of the word oblivious btw. I just thought it sounded nicer than "ignorant." I'm sure there are resources from more articulate people than me that can explain why Obama constantly being portrayed as a caricature or with a noose hung around his neck is a bit more problematic than your everyday left vs. right war of words and heated Facebook exchanges. I can't help but feel like some people are being willfully obtuse.
I don't think there is a history of violence toward people being hoisted as hot air balloons.
There's even less of a history of violence from people on the right toward people on the left from 2008 on up. It's all fringe hyperventilation.
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@Danielle
What is your opinion on why America rejected the Congressional supermajority in 2010?
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@Danielle
So by your logic, Karl Marx was not a socialist because he did not hold public office.The definition of socialist is:noun
Hence the qualifying statement, "as far as this discussion is concerned." My focus is on members of government; your focus is on Errbody, the mention of which makes little sense since the subject was Obama.
So it seems both Karl Marx (and Ayn Rand in your view) are socialists.
Karl Marx was socialist (the irony being he freeloaded off of his "Capitalist" friends and liasons.) Ayn Rand, as I mentioned, was not.
It clearly was. Republicans or other Democrats.
Fair enough.
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@Athias
Hence the qualifying statement, "as far as this discussion is concerned." My focus is on members of government; your focus is on Errbody, the mention of which makes little sense since the subject was Obama.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here.
Ayn Rand, as I mentioned, was not.
Do you agree that dictionaries are useful for defining words?
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@Danielle
I'm not sure what you're talking about here.
My point is that Obama is a socialist merely by virtue of being a member of government. I'm not arguing that being a member of government is a prerequisite for sustaining or advocating socialism.
Do you agree that dictionaries are useful for defining words?
Yes.
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@Athias
I'm not arguing that being a member of government is a prerequisite for sustaining or advocating socialism.
In post #44 you said that Ayn Rand does not qualify as a socialist specifically because she was a philosopher who did not participate as a member of government. You specified that the other people mentioned in that post did qualify because they were part of government. You did not provide any other criterion.
Yes.
Good. So we agree that the definition of socialist includes, but is not limited to: a person who practices or advocates socialism. By that logic, explain how Ayn Rand is not a socialist if she both practiced socialism and advocated socialism in her ideology.
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@Danielle
In post #44 you said that Ayn Rand does not qualify as a socialist specifically because she was a philosopher who did not participate as a member of government. You specified that the other people mentioned in that posts did qualify because they were part of government. You did not provide any other criterion.
Do you believe that grammar plays an important role in communication? The statement which followed my contention that Ayn Rand was not a socialist was an nonessential appositive phrase. It would specify nothing. It is normally indicated by a comma, and in my case the relative pronoun, "who."
She was a philosopher, who (and correct me if I'm wrong) didn't participate as a member of government.
Good. So we agree that the definition of socialist includes, but is not limited to: a person who practices or advocates socialism. By that logic, explain how Ayn Rand is not a socialist if she both practiced socialism and advocated socialism in her ideology.
Please provide examples of her socialist ideologies.
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@Danielle
What is your opinion on why America rejected the Congressional supermajority in 2010?
let me be a little more clear about what I am getting at with this question.
Do you think 2010 was a referendum based on the popular perception (justified or not) that Obama and Obama's Congress went too far with socialist policies?
What is your personal theory?
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@Greyparrot
Do you think 2010 was a referendum based on the popular perception (justified or not) that Obama and Obama's Congress went too far with socialist policies?
2010 was a referendum on whether Obama went far enough. and he didn't. Obama made lots of promises of hope and change. then he used right wing plans and made changes around the edges. Obama isn't a bad president because he was "a socialist". He was a mediocre president because he was too right wing.