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@ILikePie5
UNVOTE VTL CROC
Civil War Generals Mafia DP1
Posts
Total:
767
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@Lunatic
@Vader
@oromagi
@Speedrace
@MisterChris
Post #581 and #582. My question still has not been answered.
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@Vader
@SirAnonymous
Bearman is active (last on 9 min ago) on debateart but not posting.....
Croc is not active (last on 11 hours ago)
Suspicous.....
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@TNBinc
Keep in mind it's only 8:53 on the Eastern Time Zone (according to my laptop), and even earlier in other time zones, assuming Crocodile lives in the US.
While I will vote for Crocodile if we can't get any other lynch, I still want to give him just a bit more time. I don't think voyeur is completely useless (although it is very weak), but the current conversation has convinced me that maybe voyeur is a fake claim, given how rare it is and how weak it is. I would like to see if he can defend his claim.
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@Mharman
I think it’s a mistake but it’s a note. I think he misread SirAnon’s post cuz at first I thought it was CSA that he claimed, but then reading he said Union
Good point to make, but I’m more willing to believe it’s a misreading
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@TNBinc
I'm often online to catch up on the latest posts even though I don't have time to respond to them. If they were posting elsewhere a lot but not here, it might be suspicious.
Concerning the Croc lynch, I agree with Speed here. I doubt 1x voyeur is a fake claim, and I think Pie would be more likely to give such a weak role to town than to mafia. That being said, I don't think we lose a lot by a Croc lynch. He is persistently inactive, and his role is weak.
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@Vader
I'm pretty sure Post #23 was the first claims list in the thread (fact check me on this), so AT THAT POINT, he would've been the only Confederate he would've known of.
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@Crocodile
What's your justification? Why is John Magruder a voyeur?
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@Mharman
SirAnon said this thought:
Eh, I can't think of any downside to claiming Union or Confederate.
He probably didn't read the last part and thought he was confederate IMO, but I see your point
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@Vader
3. His justification is weak
He had a justification? Where? I must have missed it the first time.
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@Vader
I am dubious of that, but I suppose it's possible. I guess Oromagi is off the table for now.
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@Vader
@Mharman
@SirAnonymous
Who do we suspect?
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@Mharman
I think you have a point though, I think it's very sus in general. The 2 union 2 town part strikes me weirdly as well.
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@SirAnonymous
You're right, never gave one. Just realized that. Also was that general really known for being a voyeur
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@MisterChris
WHY CROC LYNCHIf there are no major scumtells, lynching useless town members is the best thing we can do for information gathering and for reducing deadweight.If we define "Useless" as a member that does not contribute or have a useful role, Croc is the only one to fit the bill.Croc has contributed less than nothing and Croc's role is useless to the town... but at the same time, he is potentially helpful to the mafia.Supa makes additional points:1. A 1x role could be used as a way for a tracker to not go ahead and track them in the night.2. A Voyeuar is such an uncommon role. Pie uses common roles3. His justification is weakPOTENTIAL OUTCOMES:a. CROC IS TOWN AND WAS NOT LYING ABOUT ROLETown has lost virtually nothing and narrowed down potential suspects.b. CROC IS TOWN AND LIED ABOUT ROLELynch all Liars.c. CROC IS MAFIASpeaks for itself.VTL Crocodile
This is a good summary of the case against Croc. I don't find the uncommon role point convincing, especially since Lunatic pointed out a bunch of uncommon roles that Pie has used in the past. I've been going back and forth on this lynch for a while. I don't like it because I don't think he's scum. On the other hand, we don't lose much by lynching him and we don't have any good alternatives. Basically, unless another wagon gets going, it's either Croc or a VTNL. There is one other point in favor of a Croc lynch: if we don't lynch him, there's a good chance we'll be having this exact discussion next DP. I think I could go along with his lynch based on that and his inactivity, but I don't want to pull the trigger just yet. We have 11.5 hours to go. If nothing better presents itself and there's still a wagon on him, I'll probably vote Croc.
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@ILikePie5
what is the current vote count
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@Vader
I'm not as familiar with Magruder, so I looked him up.
I didn't see anything that would justify being a voyeur.
I'm going to work. Be back in some hours.
I'll be back before the DP ends.
</History Buff Mode>
While I don't see any justification for John Magruder being a voyeur, he was definitely a colorful character. During McClellan's Peninsula campaign, Magruder was tasked with delaying McClellan's Army of the Potomac, which had more than 120,000 men, with only 13,600 Confederate soldiers. The leading part of the Union Army, nearly 60,000 men, were advancing on his position. Magruder was a theatrical character, and executed a clever plan (I forget who came up with the idea, but the details were largely his). He had his soldiers parade around and fire their guns into the air and had his artillery fire occasional barrages. McClellan, who is correctly remembered for overestimating the number of his enemies, fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Rather than smash Magruder's puny force, he settled in for a siege, thinking he was facing a much larger army. This bought Johnston enough time to bring in the main bulk of the Confederate army. This interesting bit of history illustrates one of the main reasons the Union was unable to quickly defeat the Confederacy. Even though they vastly outnumbered the Rebels, they were consistently out-generaled.
<History Buff Mode/>
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@SirAnonymous
I remember that story
Also, if you think Croc is town, you shouldn't vote him. There not being downsides to lynching him didn't justify lynching someone we think is town
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@Speedrace
Also, if you think Croc is town, you shouldn't vote him. There not being downsides to lynching him didn't justify lynching someone we think is town
That's true. His lack of a justification has me questioning my read, though. I'll see what he says before I decide.
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@SirAnonymous
Alrighty
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@SirAnonymous
This is a good summary of the case against Croc. I don't find the uncommon role point convincing, especially since Lunatic pointed out a bunch of uncommon roles that Pie has used in the past. I've been going back and forth on this lynch for a while. I don't like it because I don't think he's scum. On the other hand, we don't lose much by lynching him and we don't have any good alternatives. Basically, unless another wagon gets going, it's either Croc or a VTNL. There is one other point in favor of a Croc lynch: if we don't lynch him, there's a good chance we'll be having this exact discussion next DP. I think I could go along with his lynch based on that and his inactivity, but I don't want to pull the trigger just yet. We have 11.5 hours to go. If nothing better presents itself and there's still a wagon on him, I'll probably vote Croc.
Fair assessment. If a better opportunity presents itself I will switch my vote in a heartbeat, but as it stands Croc is best lynch candidate for all the reasons I laid out, plus the one you've outlined here.
Vote Count:
Croc (4/7) - Supa, MisterChris, BearMan, TNB
Mharman (1/7) - Grey
Oromagi (1/7) - SA
Please let me know if I’ve made a mistake!
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@Speedrace
Also, if you think Croc is town, you shouldn't vote him. There not being downsides to lynching him didn't justify lynching someone we think is town
If there are no major scumtells to anyone in the first day phase, lynching useless or lurky town members is the best thing we can do for information gathering and for reducing deadweight. Town loses nothing, and there is the upside that it narrows down potential suspects (whereas a NO VOTE would leave us back where we started).
I know I'm saying this as someone who no voted the first day phase of my first game, but I've been reading up on strategy lately and I think this is the best course of action.
That said, to quote my statement above:
If a better opportunity presents itself I will switch my vote in a heartbeat
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@MisterChris
I don't see how it helps town if we think that he is town
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@Speedrace
My point is that it is better than a no lynch if we have no other candidates. There is no scenario where town loses anything, and it at least helps us marginally by reducing suspects. If he turns out to be mafia (which, with his shoddy claim and shoddier behavior might be the case), even better.
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@MisterChris
We lose numbers and approach a mafia victory faster