Why Do Evangelicals Follow Trump?

Author: lady3keys

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#61
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@lady3keys
Okay, I'm new.  I'm not just new to this forum, but to this entire website.  In fact, I haven't been on an online forum for over 10 years.  So bear with me. 

I'm not trying to be rude or combative; I just really want to know.  I've heard the abortion argument.  But that is more of a republican argument.  I'm not asking why religious evangelicals support republicans.  I want to know why religiously-moral people support Trump specifically.  He has led a very immoral life.  There are the numerous sex scandals, the Trump charity that was shut down because of fraud (and the money he had to repay to a real charity of the court's choosing), the Trump university fiasco, his tax evasion, his Obama birther-ism hoax, etc., just to name a VERY FEW.   He also nicknames people based on the characteristics they most wish they could change about themselves, such as their weight the shape of their face (horse-face), their age, whether or not they stutter or are mentally disabled, etc . . . 

I know I will probably be slammed for this post and this topic.  But be gentle.  I am VERY NEW.  I honestly just don't get why religiously-moral people like Trump.

They like Trump because they know what they are getting. Trump has many problems - so we are told by the media and the Democrats and by the swamp. He is a businessman not a politician. But he is a very savvy businessman. 

Politicians in general are conniving and dishonest. Businessmen in general actually tend to be honest. Even Trump. (yeah I know that sounds wrong) but the fact is - if businessmen are dishonest - they might win one or two deals, but then never get into another business contract with anyone worthwhile. That is the nature of business. And businessmen know it is much easier to get money out of a rich man than a poor broken man. Even lawyers know - that when you look around to sue someone - you look for the deepest pockets. You don't look for the poor person - they are straw people - people with no money. So a businessman has an incentive to be honest and to make others wealthy. 

Politicians are typically terrible businessmen. Politicians who have money - tend to have money from inheritance - left over from mummy and daddy. Their only interest is in trying to win votes so that they can stay in power. Trump - is not interested in votes. Yeah he wants to win - but that is not the only thing on his mind. He wants to make America Great - because he knows that the greater it is - the more money it makes - and the more money he makes. 

Christians tend to vote for Trump because is Republican. Republican traditionally are conservative. In the old days that meant along economic lines of freedom and liberty. The Democrats were socialist and high taxing. Nowadays - economics is not the main plank of the Democrats - now they are socially progressive (regressive) in favor of everything the Christians are against. The Republicans might not be far behind them in these things - but still far enough that they would prefer even less to vote for the Democrats. I could never vote for a party that agrees with abortion. I could never vote for a party that agrees with euthanasia. I could never vote for a party has lied from its inception and has socialism at its heart. 

Big government is a bad idea and it is divisive and unjust. The republican party has become a proponent of big government and it really is not far behind the Democrats.  Yet if I had to vote I would always start with the people I dislike the most - and that would be the Democrats and work forward to see who is left on the ticket.
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#62
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@Greyparrot
I was unaware the Pope condoned 1st trimester abortions.

"Is it licit to eliminate a human life to solve a problem?... Is it licit to hire a hitman to solve a problem?"
"It is not lawful. Never, ever eliminate a human life or hire a hitman to solve a problem,"

I did not say Biden was a "strict" catholic.  I said he was a "faithful" catholic    ---   meaning he worships regularly, reveres God, and deeply holds to his personal moral code.

And if religion didn't spend so much time shaming unwed mothers, maybe they wouldn't be so desperate to find a way out.  Shame is a powerful motivator.  Young girls are afraid of disgracing their parents, being ostracized by their friends and church, and destroying their lives.  Also, I won't argue over when life begins.  I'm guessing we would disagree.
#63
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Biden was a "strict" catholic.  I said he was a "faithful" catholic.

I was unaware there was a difference.
#64
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@lady3keys
And if religion didn't spend so much time...

Seems like morality isn't really that big of a deal then.
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#65
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@Tradesecret
They like Trump because they know what they are getting. Trump has many problems - so we are told by the media and the Democrats and by the swamp. He is a businessman not a politician. But he is a very savvy businessman. 

The swamp?  Trump has had more aides and friends put in jail than any president in history.  He didn't drain the swamp, he made it bigger!
Savvy businessman?  He had 8 bankruptcies!

So a businessman has an incentive to be honest and to make others wealthy. 
Politicians are typically terrible businessmen. Politicians who have money - tend to have money from inheritance - left over from mummy and daddy. Their only interest is in trying to win votes so that they can stay in power. Trump - is not interested in votes.

Money from inheritance?  Are you kidding?  The only who got money from "mummy and daddy" is Trump.  They bailed him out of all of his bad business deals.
Not interested in votes?  Doesn't care about staying in power?  OMG!  That is ALL HE CARES ABOUT.  He has already said he thinks he should be President for Life!

Christians tend to vote for Trump because is Republican. Republican traditionally are conservative.
I think you are absolutely right here about Christians. 
But big government doesn't have to be like communism.  Government should always be only part socialistic.  Law and order is where this comes in the most.  But there is also the building of roads, foreign affairs and the military.   And for the things you cannot vote for (euthanasia, abortion, socialism), you have to include a little compassion in your worldview.  Long-term physical agony is a hard thing to endure, especially when you are all alone in the world.  Socialism is not a dirty word when it is partial and debated frequently among the People of the USA.  And young girls are raped and molested all the time, even impregnated by their fathers.  Again, compassion.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
has there been a president who is fine with practically no limit abortions?  I believe Biden/Harris would make abortion the least restrictive of any administration right?  If that's true, and I believe it is then certainly would be affected by who is president wouldn't it?
I don't see why. There aren't a whole lot of federal restrictions on abortion, and the ones that do exist don't affect the vast majority of abortions. Read the article I linked. Abortion rates have been steadily declining more because of state restrictions and a culture shift against abortion than because of actions of the federal government. Removing federal restrictions wouldn't change either of those factors.
Let's say Trump wins again and gets to appoint a supreme court justice or 2 and these laws are revisited then again that could be a huge affect.
Maybe, but that's pretty unlikely. Remember, Roe v. Wade was decided by a court with a majority of justices appointed by Republicans. Also, even if a miracle took place and Roe was overruled, that wouldn't outlaw abortion. It was just toss it back to the states.
I find late term abortions no matter the number far more objectionable to what Trump says and his past.  Deaths are permanent, he is not. 
Well, the evidence doesn't really support the idea that the abortion rate would go up if Trump isn't re-elected. Also, I don't think character can be left out of the equation. If we vote for someone who committed sexual assault, what kind of message does that send? That we're willing to overlook any crime, no matter how repulsive, if you have the right letter beside your name? Perhaps more importantly, what does it say about us? How can we vote for Donald Trump and then act like we care about virtue or integrity? The satire site The Babylon Bee wrote an article a while back saying that evangelicals (I know you're not one, but still) would be willing to vote for Satan if he ran on a Republican platform. Why should we live and vote as though that was true? I, for one, can't.
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@lady3keys
Yes!  Trump's sins and cruelty seem bottomless.  I completely understand what you mean about abortions as well.  Without clinics, girls seem to use unsanitary and life-threatening back rooms or self-mutilation to take care of their problems.  Laws don't stop abortions, they just make them dangerous.  Without good alternatives, the child still dies, and now, so could the mother (who is probably a child herself). 
That wasn't at all the point I was making. In fact, it was closer to the opposite. However, I don't have time to infinitely expand the number of forum debates I'm in, so I'll let it go this time.
#68
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@lady3keys
They like Trump because they know what they are getting. Trump has many problems - so we are told by the media and the Democrats and by the swamp. He is a businessman not a politician. But he is a very savvy businessman. 

The swamp?  Trump has had more aides and friends put in jail than any president in history.  He didn't drain the swamp, he made it bigger!
Savvy businessman?  He had 8 bankruptcies!
Absolutely a savvy businessman.  8 bankruptcies demonstrate the truth of that.  Anyone can lose money  - in fact most do. Not many can regain their wealth. Real Wealth people don't love money. They can lose all of their money and not care too much about it. This is why they succeed. Because unlike socialists - they see money as a tool, not as an end in itself. 

The swamp is not just a number of people - it is the political system. A system where politician look after themselves and help the people only when it serves them. 

So a businessman has an incentive to be honest and to make others wealthy. 
Politicians are typically terrible businessmen. Politicians who have money - tend to have money from inheritance - left over from mummy and daddy. Their only interest is in trying to win votes so that they can stay in power. Trump - is not interested in votes.

Money from inheritance?  Are you kidding?  The only who got money from "mummy and daddy" is Trump.  They bailed him out of all of his bad business deals.
Not interested in votes?  Doesn't care about staying in power?  OMG!  That is ALL HE CARES ABOUT.  He has already said he thinks he should be President for Life!
With great respect - you do know you have just contradicted yourself? LOL! If Trump got a whole lot of money from mummy and daddy, so what? After all, even as you just said, he bankrupted himself 8 times.  Saying his family has bailed him out - is not an inheritance.  They are not going to bail him out - unless there is something in it for them.  

Saying he is not interested in votes is true.  Staying in power? LOL! You do realise that Trump does not need to be president to have power? In many ways being president has reduced his power.  He actually does care about America - president for life. That would at least keep the politicians out of the house. And that actually might save America. America has been freed from the stranglehold of political corruption.  But they have not stopped fighting. They have too much invested to let it go - they will continue with their false narrative. Yet thankfully, the people of America are waking up to the lies of the Democrats and the others in the Swamp. I think he should be president for life. 



Christians tend to vote for Trump because is Republican. Republican traditionally are conservative.
I think you are absolutely right here about Christians. 
But big government doesn't have to be like communism.  Government should always be only part socialistic.  Law and order is where this comes in the most.  But there is also the building of roads, foreign affairs and the military.   And for the things you cannot vote for (euthanasia, abortion, socialism), you have to include a little compassion in your worldview.  Long-term physical agony is a hard thing to endure, especially when you are all alone in the world.  Socialism is not a dirty word when it is partial and debated frequently among the People of the USA.  And young girls are raped and molested all the time, even impregnated by their fathers.  Again, compassion.

Big Governments are pretty much like communist states. They should not be socialistic at all.  Law and Order works very well in small government societies. Building of roads, military, and protection of the nation are things that small governments can do and do well.  They are not exclusive to big government notions. Big governments tend to make their citizens slaves - unthinking slaves. Slaves who don't even know they are slaves. 

As for compassion - what would you know? It is not compassion to murder the most vulnerable in our society, just because you call it subhuman. That is the essence of racism and bigotry and fascism.  When we kill humans - abortions and euthanasia - we are murdering people. Calling it a foetus is just like saying a black person is subhuman - just like Charles Darwin and Thomas Huxley did. Go and read their books.  Compassion is about preserving life and dignity. It is not destroying life. Compassion? You have no idea.

Socialism is a dirty word. IT is a word of hate and evil.  It has never been partial because it removes and destroys the rights of the people.  One of my best friends is the conception of a rape.  She is a beautiful girl who has a wonderful relationship with her mother.  She spends her life talking about helping people not to have abortions. She went and met her father who was in prison - for raping other people. He is out now that he has paid for his crimes.  And she talks to him and they have a good relationship as well. He supports her as does her mother - her mother and father have met and despite the emotion of that situation - they now support their daughter and are so thankful that they did not listen to the advice they had received from their counselor at the time.  You would have wanted to snuff her life out for what you call compassion. I hate your compassion. It disgusts me. It makes me want to vomit - because it is not really compassion - it is cruel and evil and on the same level as the original rape. In fact it is probably worse - because it is being couched in words of niceness. 

For the record, I take the view that there are reasons for abortion. Self preservation - self defence. And similarly for euthanasia
#69
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@lady3keys
And second, we shouldn't treat them like "real" criminals, simply because they want a better life.
We absolutely should treat them like real criminals because they broke REAL laws. I'm sure people committing tax fraud are doing so to improve their life, but that doesn't excuse blatant disregard for the law.

We came here as a serf class.
And we didn't survive off of billions of dollars in welfare handouts. 

But I think there should be a clear path to it 
Absolutely not. Just because you can breathe and walk doesn't mean you have any right to go into another's country.

 I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home.
That whole Bible quote is referrring to individual behavior. You are advocating forcing other people to pay for that immigrant. Would you let illegal immigrants into your home? Would you like being forced to pay for criminals undercutting your labor? Probably not.

Again, for the most part, THEY are not criminals.  Like everything else, some are, most are not (just like the police).  They are desperate.  The wait is so long.  They end up sneaking in.   This may not be right, but I can't imagine not living in the USA, so I don't understand their suffering really.   And DACA are mostly adults, who came in as children, and have been living here their whole lives!  They are probably more American than anyone; they know suffering; they know compassion; they know hard work; they know the Constitution!  Law is critically important, but so is compassionate inclusion.
They are mostly criminals, unlike the police is what you meant to say. No matter your age, you can break immigration laws. We take in 1 million immigrants per year, and if they cannot wait, then they can screw off. Then you go on making a lot of gross, inaccurate generalizations about them being compassionate and knowing the Constitution.

It doesn't matter how long they have been living here. They don't belong here.

When an illegal immigrant breaks into your country, you don't know anything about them except that they are willing to knowingly break your laws for their own gain.

And I'm not sure if I should dignify your "rule of law" slam or your racial suggestion that I am more suited for Latin America or an African country.  I think you make yourself look bad enough all on your own with that one.
I don't see how that makes me look bad at all. Most Latin American countries and African countries don't have rule of law. That is factual. Are you suggesting that their race is what is making them incapable of properly governing themselves? Because if so, that would make you the one with "racial suggestions". I didn't mention race once in my response.
#70
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It doesn't matter how long they have been living here. They don't belong here.
Legally correct. Morally reprehensible
#71
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It doesn't matter how long they have been living here. They don't belong here.
Legally correct. Morally reprehensible

Do you know what youth unemployment is in the United States of America today? If you're a white high school graduate, it's 33 percent, Hispanic 36 percent, African American 51 percent. You think we should open the borders and bring in a lot of low-wage workers, or do you think maybe we should try to get jobs for those kids?
I think from a moral responsibility we've got to work with the rest of the industrialized world to address the problems of international poverty, but you don't do that by making people in this country even poorer.

-2015 Bernie Sanders

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@Greyparrot
The context is DACA recipients who are already in the country and for the most part are Americans

#73
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@dustryder
Those people would not be here if not for the facilitation of open borders.

It's morally wrong to harm poor Americans as 2015 Bernie Sanders stated.
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@dustryder
So not allowing people to force themselves on the country against our will and not paying for their welfare, housing, schooling, and whatever else they might need is “morally reprehensible”?

Sending them to their rightful country is “morally reprehensible”?
#75
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@Greyparrot
Those people would not be here if not for the facilitation of open borders.
Ok.. but this has nothing to do with the fact that they are there.

It's morally wrong to harm poor Americans as 2015 Bernie Sanders stated.
... in the context of opening borders and bringing in foreign workers. I think in the context of DACA, Bernie has a rather different opinion.
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@dustryder
 I think in the context of DACA, Bernie has a rather different opinion.

It's especially hard to figure out what Bernie believes today as the Democrat party has shifted noticeably toward a Marxist paradigm.

All of those opinions were 2015.

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@bmdrocks21
Assuming you're talking about DACA recipients, then yes. Destroying someone's life who is for all intents and purposes an American on a technicality that they could not control is morally reprehensible.
#78
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@Greyparrot
It's especially hard to figure out what Bernie believes today as the Democrat party has shifted noticeably toward a Marxist paradigm.

All of those opinions were 2015.
That's ok. It doesn't matter in this case because your quote relates to bringing in foreign workers and is irrelevant in this case.
#79
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@dustryder
Assuming you're talking about DACA recipients, then yes. Destroying someone's life who is for all intents and purposes an American on a technicality that they could not control is morally reprehensible.

You see, the conversation is always "what about the poor DACA people (criminals)" and never "what is best for actual Americans".

They aren't having their lives destroyed. Having years of education in a first-world nation will prepare them to be a lot more successful in their home countries than they otherwise would have been.

I don't believe in awarding criminal behavior in any fashion. They should have been deported immediately, years ago. The fact that immigration authorities didn't do their job well doesn't give those criminals a free pass.
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@Greyparrot
Yeah, Bernie was a consistent marxist for decades, much more radical than the rest of the Democrat party. Eventually, the Dems radicalized so much, that a lot of them were to the Left of Bernie, so now he has to be inconsistent to appeal to them. Especially on issues of temporary workers and immigration, as well as gun policy (to some degree. He was generally pretty bad on that).
#81
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I don't believe in awarding criminal behavior in any fashion. They should have been deported immediately, years ago. The fact that immigration authorities didn't do their job well doesn't give those criminals a free pass.

2015 Bernie would have cared about poor Americans.

That was before he was purchased by the elite globalists.
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You see, the conversation is always "what about the poor DACA people (criminals)" and never "what is best for actual Americans".
I know. What a strange thing to talk about DACA in a conversation about DACA instead of veering off into unrelated conversation.

They aren't having their lives destroyed. Having years of education in a first-world nation will prepare them to be a lot more successful in their home countries than they otherwise would have been.
No, they are having their lives destroyed. You're just attempting to justify and minimise it. The fact is, getting bundled off to a foreign country where you don't understand the culture and language and where you don't have your friends, work connections, family or job is tantamount to having your life destroyed short of literally getting executed.

I don't believe in awarding criminal behavior in any fashion. They should have been deported immediately, years ago. The fact that immigration authorities didn't do their job well doesn't give those criminals a free pass.
I agree. They should've along with their parents. However I do not address what should have been but what is. It is morally reprehensible to destroy the lives of those who are basically Americans when they've personally done nothing wrong.
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@dustryder
I know. What a strange thing to talk about DACA in a conversation about DACA instead of veering off into unrelated conversation
Oh yes. My bad. Choosing what to do with them based on what is best for Americans is tooootally unrelated.......

No, they are having their lives destroyed. You're just attempting to justify and minimise it. The fact is, getting bundled off to a foreign country where you don't understand the culture and language and where you don't have your friends, work connections, family or job is tantamount to having your life destroyed short of literally getting executed.
I doubt most of them speak English better than their home language. Having marketable skills and knowledge of English will get you a great job, considering America and other European countries that speak English do a lot of business abroad.


I agree. They should've along with their parents. However I do not address what should have been but what is. It is morally reprehensible to destroy the lives of those who are basically Americans when they've personally done nothing wrong.
Don’t care. There can be a debate about if it is beneficial that they stay here. But if they are a net negative to real Americans, they should be deported immediately. A nation’s job is to take care of ITS citizens, not a bunch of foreign national criminals.
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@bmdrocks21
Oh yes. My bad. Choosing what to do with them based on what is best for Americans is tooootally unrelated.......
In terms of morals? Yes.

I doubt most of them speak English better than their home language. Having marketable skills and knowledge of English will get you a great job, considering America and other European countries that speak English do a lot of business abroad.
Or so you hope, as if that's a reasonable justification to uproot a person from the only country they've known for their entire adult lives.

Don’t care. There can be a debate about if it is beneficial that they stay here. But if they are a net negative to real Americans, they should be deported immediately. A nation’s job is to take care of ITS citizens, not a bunch of foreign national criminals.
Well I'm certainly glad you agree it's morally reprehensible.
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@dustryder
Well I'm certainly glad you agree it's morally reprehensible.

I don't. I believe it is morally reprehensible that we have had to subsidize their unlawful residence.

I was saying that even if it was, I wouldn't care. The role of a government is to serve its peoples' interests, not take care of everyone else on the planet. Abandoning your citizens' interests is more "morally reprehensible" than any language you use to describe "sending people back to their nation". So I don't care what DACA people want. Their opinion is 100% irrelevant.
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#86
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@Greyparrot
Biden was a "strict" catholic.  I said he was a "faithful" catholic.

I was unaware there was a difference.
Of course there is a difference.  Each person has their own moral code, which differs in both small ways and sometime in big ones, the Lutherans for example.  This also explains the explosion of different protestant, christian factions.    Just because Biden is pro-choice, does not negate his Catholicism.  They haven't excommunicated him. 
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@lady3keys
Each person has their own moral code.

Well said.
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#88
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@Tradesecret
You would have wanted to snuff her life out for what you call compassion. I hate your compassion. It disgusts me. It makes me want to vomit - because it is not really compassion - it is cruel and evil and on the same level as the original rape. In fact it is probably worse - because it is being couched in words of niceness. 
I absolutely would not have wanted to snuff  out her life!  My compassion disgusts you?   I would never say something like that to you.  Your arguments are your own.  And I respect your right to have them.  I'm glad things are black and white in your world, because they aren't in mine!  I struggle every day to seek the truth and to see clearly.

As for  your friend.  I admire her for what she has been through and how she has handled it.  But are you saying your friend had her rapist's baby?  Because my 13 yr. old friend got pregnant as well  -- by her father.  She was taken away from her parents and put in foster care.  She was in her first month of pregnancy.   Again, I'm glad it is all so easy for you.   It most certainly isn't for me.  I met her long after she had her abortion, but I certainly DID NOT JUDGE her or shame her for her decision.


Absolutely a savvy businessman.  8 bankruptcies demonstrate the truth of that.  Anyone can lose money  - in fact most do. Not many can regain their wealth. Real Wealth people don't love money. They can lose all of their money and not care too much about it. This is why they succeed. Because unlike socialists - they see money as a tool, not as an end in itself. 
Trump built an ALL GOLD penthouse and showcased it everywhere.  He cares about wealth because he cares about the way he looks to others.  In fact, that is all he cares about.  He wants power because he keeps trying to prove to himself that he is worthwhile. 

"See?", he says to the world.  "I am rich.  I am somebody".   Still, he feels worthless.  "See?", he says to the world again.  "I am President!  Surely, I am someone now?"

So he constantly has to re-double his efforts to make sure no one can see through the cracks of his facade.  He makes Wharton (University of Penn.) destroy his academic records and threatens to sue them if his grades ever get out.  He refuses to turn over his taxes and fights every court ruling (and the Constitution) to keep them away from the People.  Like a desperate drowning man, he is terrified they might see his fraud, both his financial facade AND his self-esteem facade. 

His ego becomes his driving force.  And there is little room for America in this obsession.  He will do absolutely anything to win --- to lose would mean his identity has been shattered.  He is on a constant mission to prove to himself, via the adoration of his mobs, that he really is a "somebody". 

With great respect - you do know you have just contradicted yourself? LOL! If Trump got a whole lot of money from mummy and daddy, so what? After all, even as you just said, he bankrupted himself 8 times.  Saying his family has bailed him out - is not an inheritance.  They are not going to bail him out - unless there is something in it for them.  
Um . . no contradiction.  They bailed him out because he was FAMILY and they didn't want the Trump name to be besmirched.  Trump was ALWAYS trying to win the approval of his father.  And he failed time and time again (bankruptcies).  His father paid for every blunder because he was embarrassed, not because there was anything in it for him (other than saving the Trump family name from further humiliation). 

Socialism is a dirty word. IT is a word of hate and evil.  It has never been partial because it removes and destroys the rights of the people.
Again, wow!  You do realize that every time Trump bails out some big conglomerate with taxpayer money   ---  THAT IS SOCIALISM.  Every time you put on your  seat-belt  -- that is a form of socialism too.    When the government allowed Trump to declare bankruptcy and not pay his debts, THAT WAS SOCIALISM!  Building roads is socialism.  Our fabulous  country is beautifully capitalistic and also partially socialistic. 


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@Greyparrot
I think Trump should respect congressional subpoenas,

So you are saying Trump isn't allowed to follow the rule of law and ask the Courts for a decision?

Fighting the subpoenas was merely a stall tactic.  Our laws about subpoenas were ALREADY in place.  He can try to change the laws, but he should be an example and follow them.  Clinton did.  Nixon did. 
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The poem on the statue of liberty was written at a time in American history where people seeking citizenship had to prove they could take care of themselves, or go back where they came from.
I don't think that is true.  I think they came here more than willing to work.  No one followed them around to see if they were working or not.  If they wanted to get ahead, they  had to work and work hard.